Aderans

[CAlex]

Look the reality is if you're above NW3 Histogen alone will not bring back your juvenile hairline...

Neither Histogen, Aderans nor Replicel will be able to do that...

These treatments will simply save the hair you have and cause a bit of regrowth...if you want a juvenile hairline, you will end up combining these cutting edge treatments with a transplant depending on how far your hair loss has progressed.

If this ends up being the case there will still be hl forums and depressed guys everywhere because modern ht density still looks very bad. if all we are hoping is that histogen and the others do is halt your hair loss at say nw 4 so you feel safe to use all your donor on an ht you will still look very very thin.

I thought we were being told that histogen was regrowing quite a bit of hair not just halting progression. so we've given up on them being able to cause regrowth of 40 hairs/cm2 ?

IMo the only way these treatments really become game changers is for people to be able to have ht and then histogen injections and add 40plus hairs per cm/2 on top of ht density. just my opinion.

[yeahyeahyeah]

If this ends up being the case there will still be hl forums and depressed guys everywhere because modern ht density still looks very bad. if all we are hoping is that histogen and the others do is halt your hair loss at say nw 4 so you feel safe to use all your donor on an ht you will still look very very thin.

I thought we were being told that histogen was regrowing quite a bit of hair not just halting progression. so we've given up on them being able to cause regrowth of 40 hairs/cm2 ?

IMo the only way these treatments really become game changers is for people to be able to have ht and then histogen injections and add 40plus hairs per cm/2 on top of ht density. just my opinion.

It is regrowing hair; vellius hair.

[Thinning87]

Thinning just read it brother...

if its early stages I reckon just take 0.25mg of Finasteride ONCE A WEEK and see how you tolerate it. If you feel OK after 3 months then it's all good Keep taking it ONCE A WEEK until we get our hands on one of these cutting edge treatments.

Since its early days for you... taking it ONCE A WEEK will really slow things down for you

Hope that's helpful

Thanks for the advice Desmond, really appreciate different point of views.

I might even be willing to go with 1 Mg per week... I mean I was taking the Propecia on a daily basis before... I will be fine with one whole pill once a week. I'd be willing to even go up to 1 pill every other day, sides were not so bad.

Thanks again

[FearTheLoss]

It is regrowing hair; vellius hair.

Yeah but those results were at 12 and 24 weeks after one set of injections...then they did two sets and got better results..I'm guessing now in phase III they will do more and see where that goes..the vellius hairs will turn to terminal and with the addition of propecia one could hope for even much better results!

[Boldy]

Yeah but those results were at 12 and 24 weeks after one set of injections...then they did two sets and got better results..I'm guessing now in phase III they will do more and see where that goes..the vellius hairs will turn to terminal and with the addition of propecia one could hope for even much better results!

I don't think propicia is needed with injected Dermal papillae cells, since these cells are not prone to DHT/ androgens.

I hope they speed up the trials !

[FearTheLoss]

I don't think propicia is needed with injected Dermal papillae cells, since these cells are not prone to DHT/ androgens.

I hope they speed up the trials !

Where did you read that at? That would be amazing!!

[Boldy]

Where did you read that at? That would be amazing!!

Read this post. this information is from cotseralis study.
this posts contains also the full study for reference.

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpost.php?p=99370&postcount=527

The future looks indeed very hopefull !

check also this topic:

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=103913&enterthread=y

[Jasari]

If this ends up being the case there will still be hl forums and depressed guys everywhere because modern ht density still looks very bad. if all we are hoping is that histogen and the others do is halt your hair loss at say nw 4 so you feel safe to use all your donor on an ht you will still look very very thin.

I thought we were being told that histogen was regrowing quite a bit of hair not just halting progression. so we've given up on them being able to cause regrowth of 40 hairs/cm2 ?

IMo the only way these treatments really become game changers is for people to be able to have ht and then histogen injections and add 40plus hairs per cm/2 on top of ht density. just my opinion.

Virtually any norwood 4 or 5 would have a seemingly thick head of hair if they used their donor without having to worry about further loss.

[Desmond84]

Wow, Boldy thx for all this great info! It's definitely good to see you share my opinions on DP!

I was starting to give up with ppl being so negative

I'm gonna be reading all these studies you linked today! We'll have a thorough discussion in the next few days

Welcome to BTT brother! We need ppl like you desperately

[yeahyeahyeah]

Yeah but those results were at 12 and 24 weeks after one set of injections...then they did two sets and got better results..I'm guessing now in phase III they will do more and see where that goes..the vellius hairs will turn to terminal and with the addition of propecia one could hope for even much better results!

phase 3?

Since when?

[534623]

Wow, Boldy thx for all this great info!
It's definitely good to see you share my opinions on DP!

What is your opinion on DP?

[FearTheLoss]

phase 3?

Since when?

Histogen isn't phase III yet, I'm saying when they move to phase III...

[Desmond84]

What is your opinion on DP?

Here's a little summary

DHT is by far the main culprit, hence why Finasteride is so powerful at halting hairloss. Now:

1) To date, we have only found Androgen receptors on the dermal papillae & sebaceous glands of hair follicles.

• DP cells are the most important contributor to follicle growth and cycling.
  
• Sebaceous glands don't serve any roles in terms of growth, they are more of a supportive structure.

Hence, the reason why Aderans decided to use DP cells! Here's the link:

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v9.../5612065a.html

2) Here's the most AMAZING finding: back in late 90's it was found that "Dermal papillae extracted from occipital scalp hair follicles (donor area) lack Androgen receptors!

Here's the link:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...706.x/abstract

That's why I think at least in theory, DHT-resistance may be possible!

In another word, after DP transplantation, you will have TWO types of DP cells present in the root of the hair follicle (this is known as a "chimeric" follicle btw):

1) Original DP cells that are sensitive to DHT --> these are shrinking and refuse to provide the growth factors and signals necessary to promote hair growth.

2) Transplanted DP cells that lack Androgen receptors --> these cells would aggregate to form fully functional DP which support a healthy hair growth cycle!

Here's a little excerpt from one of the publications I found:

"The treatment area would be miniaturized follicles that are cosmetically insignificant, and the strategy would be to rejuvenate miniaturized follicles by the insertion of hair-inductive DP cells. Because the cellular target in androgenetic alopecia is the dermal papilla, providing the follicle with new, androgen-insensitive DP cells might reactivate the follicle to form a normal (terminal) hair. "

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2884703/

Furthermore:

"Dermal Papillae cells remain the same throughout your whole life. They don't die or replicate." They simply move up and down the hair follicle during Anagen & Catagen Phase."

This is the best news we could have had. Basically this means that the effects of Aderans would be PERMANENT!

Once you have Dermal Papillae from occipital region (donor area) transplanted onto the top of your scalp, there are sufficient DP present that function regardless of scalp levels of DHT leading to continued healthy hair growth cycles; i.e. your hair will remain DHT-resistant for a substantial period of your life!

So, I believe in the future, hair transplant surgeons would simply refuse to perform fue/HST/etc until you have managed to immunise your remaining hair against DHT. Once immunised, they will then perform a high density transplant.

One other important information I found out is:

Dermal Papillae (DP) & Dermal sheath cup cells (DSC) are INTERCHANGEABLE.

Throughout the hair cycle, DP cells turn into DSC cells and vice versa. During growth DSC cells turn into DP cells to provide hair with more growth factors and during resting Phase some DP cells turn into DSC cells.

Now, here's the important bit:

• DP cells are used by Aderans
• DSC cells are used by Replicel.

So, they are practically the same treatment! We should be rooting for both of them.

[Desmond84]

Hey Boldy,

I just finished reading this journal you posted:


Hair follicle neogenesis induced by cultured human scalp dermal papilla cells

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9doxfq9hqny8olc/8%20hair%20folucle%20newogenesis%20induced%20by%20cultured%20human%20scalp%20dermal%20papilla%20cells.pdf

How the hell did Intercytex go bust! They managed to grow brand new follicles on HUMAN skin grafts!!!!! They did it! They really did it and they went under!!!

I really don't understand the pharmaceutical industry anymore!!!!!!

I mean look at these photos!!!!

[Boldy]

hey man,

Im glad there are some objective persons on this forum, that actually do read studies!

I agree with your post, since it contains only facts, but I have some add regarding the following quote:

In another word, after DP transplantation, you will have TWO types of DP cells present in the root of the hair follicle (this is known as a "chimeric" follicle btw):

1) Original DP cells that are sensitive to DHT --> these are shrinking and refuse to provide the growth factors and signals necessary to promote hair growth.

2) Transplanted DP cells that lack Androgen receptors --> these cells would aggregate to form fully functional DP which support a healthy hair growth cycle!

That is true, But "injected"DP cells are also known to produce whole new hairfolicle by themselves. this means you would even be posible to create a lower hairline than you ever had, for example a negative hairline. The following picture demonstrates that:




This approach is very hopefull guys