Aderans

[UK Boy]

[QUOTE=UK Boy;101862]!!!????? I've been on here too much today - too many ups and downs it's like a roller coaster! Desmond (Mr.Optimistic) you were on this major downer - I thought you had definite proof of what you were saying and it was all over, now just because of what Ironman has said you've done a full reversal, taken it back and gone back to "We'll have to wait and see what they say the..." WTF!?[/QUO

Please don't take this as offensive btw, I'm just well confused. I think it's just a case of we're all still a bit unsure. Like you said, just have to wait an see.

[Desmond84]

Dude, I'm so sorry! (@UK_Boy)

THis stupid presentation by Aderans is like watching an epidose of Lost!

Before you watch it, you have 2 questions in your head. Once you finish watching, you end up with another 10 questions!!!

Aderans is very secretive unfortunately. You have to try and read between the lines and honestly I can't quite make out what's exactly in Ji Gami.

Unfortunately, everything I posted up until today was based on their 2010 presentation which went for over an hour! Since then they really have changed direction! They hardly mention DP cells anymore or follicular neogenesis!

They don't do interviews or answer our emails...so I really don't know how to clarify these burning questions! All I could come up with was to just wait till June

Brother, if there's any glimmer of hope, I'd be the first to jump on this forum and letting you all know about it.

This whole news just really messed me up

[UK Boy]

No worries man, we're all in the same situation so I know exactly how it messes with you. It's a new year and we're all waiting on news from Histogen, Aderans etc. January feels like it's gone on forever and we've still prob got months to wait.

[StinkySmurf]

Aderans is very secretive unfortunately. You have to try and read between the lines and honestly I can't quite make out what's exactly in Ji Gami.

Aderans has an existing business they need to protect for as long as possible. I would think the arrival of Ji Gami and HM will be good for the HT industry, but the pre-announcement will be the exact opposite so you just have to accept the fact that these guys have absolutely zero interest in helping us pin a date to this.

And forget about $15,000. The number that matters is $500 to $1000 which is the COGS. The list price will change over time.

[StinkySmurf]

Seriously, wtf is saying that they don't involve also dermal papilla cells (if you like them so much)??

They simply use every useful mesenchymal cell type (dp included) AND epithelial cell types; and, of course, tested them (what works best etc).

I mean, during every presentation they make or patent they file, they always mention the same - namely, what I just explained.

DP cells, as always pretended by Nigam & dog, are definitely NOT "the commandment center" for hair follicle production. They are not even the "commandment center" for maintanance of hair follicles and circling. In the past, this has been just a theory.

Ok, so this is my question for you then, regardless of how they're doing it. What do you think the results are? What kind of results do you think they're getting and do you think these results are bad or what exactly is it you don't like about these results?

[Desmond84]

You know I went back and re-read the posts that were written the last few days about Aderans to see how this whole thing about no DP in Aderans started. Here's some of them:

As per what German team said (Dr Lauster), they have met Dr Washniek,and as per boldy has done good research work on aderans ,it is said that Aderans use autologous epithelial stem cells and dermal sheath stem cells ,not dermal papilla culture,i may be wrong,check it yourself.As you know i am in the process to add inducible dp culture into my hm process.And further to this we would add cultured dermal papilla itself into our hm process.As dermal papilla and not just dp cells are the commanders to de novo start hair follicle formation...!

Not easy to roll out into the clinics (money) it does not fit in their profit plan.

For example it costs them 4 K to culture the DP cells. that would mean they have to sell the procedure for 6-8 K. end result less people interested(less end profit).


their second not so promising method is probably easier, does not require special trained professionals and is easily done for 500 usd (just an example). this way they can sell the procedure for 2-4 K per person. end result much interested people that can afford it. more profit, and repeated procedure per person until the head gets full of hair....

Conclusion: its all about the money they don't give a **** about our hairs..

what can we do about it?
1. Accept the fact that DP culture could take yet again another 5-10 before it hits the market.
2. Find our own solution that consists of DP culture and do it somewhere probably in Asia.

I'm getting a feeling this whole thing was orchestrated by Dr. Nigam to make his procedure look more groundbreaking <sigh> seriously, they like toying with us man!

[StinkySmurf]

Can you say who told you that? How would they know what the results were like? Were they a trial patient? or involved in Aderans? or were they just someone who saw a presentation?

Someone who saw the result on a lot of different people and who had no reason to lie, but not someone I know personally or anything.

[yeahyeahyeah]

You know I went back and re-read the posts that were written the last few days about Aderans to see how this whole thing about no DP in Aderans started. Here's some of them:






I'm getting a feeling this whole thing was orchestrated by Dr. Nigam to make his procedure look more groundbreaking <sigh> seriously, they like toying with us man!

Dr Nigam is a shady HT surgeon, why the **** are you guys taking his word so seriously?

Anyway I always had a feeling Aderans was a waste of time.

My money is on histogen, always has been.

[StinkySmurf]

Do you really want that every second user in this forum will attack me??

I mean, the same happend during the "I-love-so-much-Replicel" phase. And the more I backed up my claims and my predictions for their trail results, the more they attacked me. I mean, should I suffer the same fate with the "I-love-so much-Aderans" phase?? For what? For "Being again the scientist of the year" or what?

I could care less how many people attack me so lets hear it...

[StinkySmurf]

And I'm sure we're all tired of seeing it, but just for reference, here is the only photo I'm aware of:

[IMG]http://www.*************/hair-loss/img/uploaded/2879_image1232.jpg[/IMG]

So whats the problem with this photo. Shedding?

[StinkySmurf]

Do you really want that every second user in this forum will attack me??

I mean, the same happend during the "I-love-so-much-Replicel" phase. And the more I backed up my claims and my predictions for their trail results, the more they attacked me. I mean, should I suffer the same fate with the "I-love-so much-Aderans" phase?? For what? For "Being again the scientist of the year" or what?

And by the way, Replicel is broke. That has nothing to do with science nor does it verify or refute any scientific claim. Broke is just broke.

[LMS]

Hmm... seems like this thread and a lot of the other cutting edge threads have pretty much degenerated into mental masturbation.

We really don't know shit. We will just have to wait until June or whenever Aderans chooses to give us an update or what not.

[534623]

I could care less how many people attack me so lets hear it...

You're right - they hate me anyhow ...

Anyway - the answer is simple:

During Washenik's presentation - could you see a fully restored tonsure area?
Everything I can see are just some marginal effects around the tonsure transition zones. Period.

My point is - THE main problem/cause of AGA is with such approches simply not solved, because THE main problem for AGA sticks still in the existing/affected hair follicle structure and this problem has nothing to do with "cells" per se. AGA has simply absolutely nothing to do with a "disease" - absolutely nothing. For example...

These very rare WHITE tiger babies were recently born in Austria.
Why they are white? The tiger stripes in general - where do they come from at all? Why is there such a certain pattern of stripes? Why do AGA patients have such a certain hair loss PATTERN?

Anyway, AGA is basically NOT a stem cells problem per se - Dr. Cotsarelis confirmed this recently. Hair follicle stem cells are still there - even in bald AGA skin. When the "time is ripe", these (stem)cells are simply not prone anymore to produce the necessary progenitor cells for hair growth. And that's THE point:
What exactly is it in general, what tells the cells (skin-region specific!) what they should do or should become and WHEN should they do something at all?
What is it? Exactly this "what-is-it" is not involved in ARI's Ji Gami - insofar, because "what-is-it" is very difficult to reproduce (in the lab or so). In simple words "what-is-it" is something what IS involved with hair transplants and why hair transplants basically work at all. Is all this really so difficult to understand?

[StinkySmurf]

You're right - they hate me anyhow ...

Anyway - the answer is simple:

During Washenik's presentation - could you see a fully restored tonsure area?
Everything I can see are just some marginal effects around the tonsure transition zones. Period.

What difference does it make if the effect is marginal or not? Are you saying the effect isn't permanent or are you denying any improvement in the photo?

So yeah, I don't get it.

[amibald]

can't we all just get a gho transplant problem solved anyway?