Aderans

[StinkySmurf]

Genetic Test

With regards to genetic markers, one of the guys on our forum did some amazing investigative work and found out that they employed a geneticist to come up with specific genetic markers for their trial back in April 2011.

It's great news since it means they've been working on this genetic test for a while and Phase 3 should start sometimes in 2013

-- Fingers crossed of course

Hey Desmond, Can you provide a link to this info?

I can't find it.

Thanks!

[yeahyeahyeah]

If anything this should settle that there will never be a "cure"



When stemcells become a common thing to use in medicine we'll have a treatment, until then buy a piece or get a transplant. I've seen too many cases of guys my age(21) with hypogonadism because of fin. Your endocrine system is fragile and doesn't need to be messed with. Focus on improving your life because it's going to be a long bald road fellas.

You are being too pessimistic considering that both histogen and Aderians are conducting their clinical trials on NW3+s.

[StinkySmurf]

Hey Desmond, Can you provide a link to this info?

I can't find it.

Thanks!

Nevermind, I found the patent

http://www.aderansresearch.com/pdfs/US_Patent_7985537.pdf

[youngsufferer]

You are being too pessimistic considering that both histogen and Aderians are conducting their clinical trials on NW3+s.

And let me tell you how impressive histogens pictures are haha. Histogen is trash, they're very open with their progress and have no impressive pictures at all. I really hope aderans has solved the puzzle, it would make sense that they're keeping quiet until FDA approved. I don't see that happening when we have scar tissue from years of inflammation mutilating the hair follicle. Regardless or not if the follicles or not die, that last study Desmond posted shows that they're too damaged to he functional even if we find a topical or injectable cure. This also explains why fin works so well for people who caught their hair loss early, and the regrowth they experience. Quit hearing what you want to hear. Go learn an instrument, get in the weight room, read some books and improve your life. It's going to be a while.

[clarence]

And let me tell you how impressive histogens pictures are haha. Histogen is trash

That is the reality of an NW5+.

But many people who are in the beginning stages of their hair loss and make some light effort to maintain what they have for 3 years, will wait for the full results over taking a hair transplant, if the Histogen works only half as well as their numbers tell you. We'll see soon enough, whether or not any pictures of theirs can compete with the numbers.

[jgold]

I agree with youngsufferer. I have wasted soooooo much god damn time / energy / suffering on this shit. The reality is that its basically a lost cause for a while and as far as a real solid cure goes, thats a whilllle away were not very close at this point. It sucks more than anything, but it is the reality.

[hellouser]

I agree with youngsufferer. I have wasted soooooo much god damn time / energy / suffering on this shit. The reality is that its basically a lost cause for a while and as far as a real solid cure goes, thats a whilllle away were not very close at this point. It sucks more than anything, but it is the reality.

We are close, in fact we're already there. Just look into Dr. Roland Lausters work from Berlin. Whats holding us back is the whole legal crap.

[ovoxo]

It is often assumed that hair that is lost in pattern balding somehow “dies” after a certain period of time, and is therefore gone for good, rendered incapable of re-generation. This assumption is also erroneously reinforced by certain doctors, and other hair specialists. The following case study published in a reputable peer reviewed journal, along with numerous anecdotal accounts we have received over the last 10 years convincingly refute this assumption. This particular study gives an account of a 73 year old man who had been completely bald since 28 re-growing a full head of hair at age 73 ( 45 years of slick baldness) after 6 years on oral Spironolactone, effectively shattering the assumption of “dead” hair follicles.


Acta Derm Venereol. 1990;70(4):342-3.

Reversal of andro-genetic alopecia in a male. A spironolactone effect?

Bou-Abboud CF, Nemec F, Toffel F.

Source

Department of Internal Medicine, University Medical Center of Southern Nevada, University of Nevada School of Medicine.


Abstract

This 73-year-old white male has been bald since the age of 28. He developed nonA-nonB-induced liver cirrhosis and had been treated with spironolactone for the last 6 years. For the last 3 months, his hair had started to regrow over the scalp. This might be related to the antiandrogenic effect of spironolactone.



My opinion is nobody really knows, these treatments might work, might not work. Time will tell and we can discuss all we want, but it won't change the outcome.

[rdawg]

You could also argue that something like HSC could bring these follicles back to life, essentially 'repairing' them.

Not to mention a future theoretical stem cell product down the line.

I dont think there is a limit to what hair loss products could do at any age, I think it's just a matter of the science and technology growing enough to do so. And I'd say we're getting closer to that point.

[rdawg]

Edit: double post

[youngsufferer]

It is often assumed that hair that is lost in pattern balding somehow “dies” after a certain period of time, and is therefore gone for good, rendered incapable of re-generation. This assumption is also erroneously reinforced by certain doctors, and other hair specialists. The following case study published in a reputable peer reviewed journal, along with numerous anecdotal accounts we have received over the last 10 years convincingly refute this assumption. This particular study gives an account of a 73 year old man who had been completely bald since 28 re-growing a full head of hair at age 73 ( 45 years of slick baldness) after 6 years on oral Spironolactone, effectively shattering the assumption of “dead” hair follicles.


Acta Derm Venereol. 1990;70(4):342-3.

Reversal of andro-genetic alopecia in a male. A spironolactone effect?

Bou-Abboud CF, Nemec F, Toffel F.

Source

Department of Internal Medicine, University Medical Center of Southern Nevada, University of Nevada School of Medicine.


Abstract

This 73-year-old white male has been bald since the age of 28. He developed nonA-nonB-induced liver cirrhosis and had been treated with spironolactone for the last 6 years. For the last 3 months, his hair had started to regrow over the scalp. This might be related to the antiandrogenic effect of spironolactone.



My opinion is nobody really knows, these treatments might work, might not work. Time will tell and we can discuss all we want, but it won't change the outcome.

I stand corrected.

[Pate]

It is often assumed that hair that is lost in pattern balding somehow “dies” after a certain period of time, and is therefore gone for good, rendered incapable of re-generation. This assumption is also erroneously reinforced by certain doctors, and other hair specialists. The following case study published in a reputable peer reviewed journal, along with numerous anecdotal accounts we have received over the last 10 years convincingly refute this assumption. This particular study gives an account of a 73 year old man who had been completely bald since 28 re-growing a full head of hair at age 73 ( 45 years of slick baldness) after 6 years on oral Spironolactone, effectively shattering the assumption of “dead” hair follicles.


Acta Derm Venereol. 1990;70(4):342-3.

Reversal of andro-genetic alopecia in a male. A spironolactone effect?

Bou-Abboud CF, Nemec F, Toffel F.

Source

Department of Internal Medicine, University Medical Center of Southern Nevada, University of Nevada School of Medicine.


Abstract

This 73-year-old white male has been bald since the age of 28. He developed nonA-nonB-induced liver cirrhosis and had been treated with spironolactone for the last 6 years. For the last 3 months, his hair had started to regrow over the scalp. This might be related to the antiandrogenic effect of spironolactone.



My opinion is nobody really knows, these treatments might work, might not work. Time will tell and we can discuss all we want, but it won't change the outcome.

This and Des's posts are fascinating. They're not actually contradictory - Des's abstract shows that fibrosis is the reason why human MPB doesn't reverse like macaque MPB does, and shows why treatments won't regrow lost hair except sometimes in the very early stages.

Ovoxo's post suggests that in at least some cases, that fibrosis may not be permanent. It just takes many years of near-total androgen suppression to do it.

Since even castrated men don't generally regrow all their hair it presumably only takes minor levels of androgens to stop the regrowth.

The message to take away at this stage is, once again, do whatever you can to hang on to your hair. Even if the fibrosis can be reversed, you don't want to be waiting for six years of spiro to help you out.

[jgold]

**** mpb honestly. god damn

[Kiwi]

This and Des's posts are fascinating. They're not actually contradictory - Des's abstract shows that fibrosis is the reason why human MPB doesn't reverse like macaque MPB does, and shows why treatments won't regrow lost hair except sometimes in the very early stages.

Ovoxo's post suggests that in at least some cases, that fibrosis may not be permanent. It just takes many years of near-total androgen suppression to do it.

Since even castrated men don't generally regrow all their hair it presumably only takes minor levels of androgens to stop the regrowth.

The message to take away at this stage is, once again, do whatever you can to hang on to your hair. Even if the fibrosis can be reversed, you don't want to be waiting for six years of spiro to help you out.

LOL thats what I was just thinking. I'm not going to take Spiro for 6 years on the off chance that it might work.

What is the best way to halt further hair loss?

[Pate]

LOL thats what I was just thinking. I'm not going to take Spiro for 6 years on the off chance that it might work.

What is the best way to halt further hair loss?

Well, theoretically, castration would be the best way to halt further hair loss. Rip your balls off. Then take an antiandrogen to suppress the last 5% or so of androgens still being produced by your adrenals.

But when we're talking a realistic route here, the best way to halt further loss would be the highest level of androgen suppression you can stand.

For most of us 6 years of oral spiro just ain't an option, nor are those topical androgen receptor antagonists that have significant systemic absorption. So what it would probably be would be a combination of finasteride and topical RU. Until CB comes along and then it would be fin plus CB. Some might prefer dut to fin.

In the future, Aderans and Replicel could actually halt further hair loss. I've been pretty dismissive of the 'immunisation' idea in the past but I'm reconsidering in light of the paper above on fibrosis. Replicel might fail to regrow much hair because it just can't reverse the scarring in the follicles - but if the follicles are still relatively healthy, and Replicel's DHT-resistant cells migrate in there and help it resist attack by DHT, then it's quite possible that follicle would avoid both androgen attack and fibrosis.

But that's all still years away. For now, fin plus RU. I know a lot of guys get sides even from those drugs, but it's probably the best compromise between sides and effectiveness we have available right now.