Tocotrienol (vitamin E) may reverse male pattern baldness

[clandestine]

Good idea


and to throw the thread back on track:

I got my Toco8 on Wednesday and took the first dose that evening.

I must say that tiny little scoop they give you is quite annoying. I've also found it doesn't dissolve that well, even in water. Maybe its the water I have (well water, not really filtered) that is doing that and makes it stick to the sides of the glass.

Found the same thing mate. Solution, don't dissolve it into anything and try to drink it. Just take a sip of something, water or juice, then let the toco fall right out of the scoop into your mouth. Done.

[bananana]

Good idea


and to throw the thread back on track:

I got my Toco8 on Wednesday and took the first dose that evening.

I must say that tiny little scoop they give you is quite annoying. I've also found it doesn't dissolve that well, even in water. Maybe its the water I have (well water, not really filtered) that is doing that and makes it stick to the sides of the glass.

You should probably need to use some kind of blender to mix it with water/milk/juice.

I'll open a new thread now about soy/green tea now (I'll just copy/paste my post from this thread so we can discuss it there)

Boy, I haven't been so active anywhere for a long time.

[NotBelievingIt]

Ps, guys - we're on tocotrienols thread - maybe we should open a new one on soy/tea not to confuse people that will read this in the future?

Good idea


and to throw the thread back on track:

I got my Toco8 on Wednesday and took the first dose that evening.

I must say that tiny little scoop they give you is quite annoying. I've also found it doesn't dissolve that well, even in water. Maybe its the water I have (well water, not really filtered) that is doing that and makes it stick to the sides of the glass.

[bananana]

Where did you find that? Link please. I've seen conflicting things about the benefits of Green and Black Tea - some have suggested that to see any real benefit it takes basically drinking it nonstop all day - or in the case of the wonderful drug world taking extract supplements that are highly concentrated in order to prevent the non-stop cup of tea.

Soy inhibits DHT in that it promotes, to a small degree, the conversion to estrogen. So while DHT is an "estrogen" inhibitor - soy promotes the conversion to estradiol (estrogen). Thats why it remains a controversial protein in the body building world.

It was done on Harvard university.
here is a part of text:

http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateBlacktea7-09.html

and here is a bigger one:

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/133/2/516.full

I've read newer studies that say soy is not bad for males as it was thought to be. .

"Human studies done thus far on Soy and its effects on reproductive hormones in men in males indicate no apparent negative effect. It has also been established that Green Tea to some degree, suppresses androgen receptor signaling and inhibits both 5 alpha reductase isozymes. "

Anyways, tea + soy seems to have a synergistic effect - so it should show results if its lowering DHT by over 70% (same as finasteride). They say drinking tea + taking soy isoflavones is enough in quantity for the effect.
I'm thinking about trying a black/green tea concentrate thou - they're cheap and easy to find on ebay.

Also this sentence makes no sense:
This study also showed that the consumption of Green Tea as a beverage combined with Soy Isoflavone Concentrate significantly reduced DHT levels, and to some degree testosterone. Curiously it was found that the singular consumption of Green Tea raised both testosterone and DHT levels.
because few lines later they say - "Given its’ multitude of anti-androgenic actions and the increase in SHBG (low levels of SHBG are associated with male pattern hair loss) that Green tea causes, it is our position that Green Tea, even if singularly consumed, will benefit those with hair loss."

So which one is it?

Ps, guys - we're on tocotrienols thread - maybe we should open a new one on soy/tea not to confuse people that will read this in the future?

[clandestine]

I've heard some unfortunate things regarding soy in the past as well. Increased estrogen doesn't necessarily sound appealing. The compromises we must endure, I suppose.

[NotBelievingIt]

Where did you find that? Link please. I've seen conflicting things about the benefits of Green and Black Tea - some have suggested that to see any real benefit it takes basically drinking it nonstop all day - or in the case of the wonderful drug world taking extract supplements that are highly concentrated in order to prevent the non-stop cup of tea.

Soy inhibits DHT in that it promotes, to a small degree, the conversion to estrogen. So while DHT is an "estrogen" inhibitor - soy promotes the conversion to estradiol (estrogen). Thats why it remains a controversial protein in the body building world.

[bananana]

Yeah, those look good.

Ps, as I mentioned somewhere, I already ordered a few bottles of soy isoflavones as I read a study that soy i. + green tea or black tea = 72% less DHT. I'll give it a go for at least 6 months to see the results.

Ps, what is capsaicin, where do you get etc?

It says in the text - it's present in chili peppers
Nice, I'm gonna grab one of them daily.

The problem is - this all costs. A lot.
I'll be taking toco, soy, green tea, iron, yeast, probably saw palmetto, maybe minox...
When you add that all up - it's a "nice" monthly sum.

Here is a small copy/paste of that text I have on my laptop:


“Mice treated with black tea (via standard,steeped beverage)tended to have a greater serum testosterone concentration (34.4%, P = 0.50) and had a 72% lower DHT concentration than controls (P < 0.05), suggesting that black tea may contain components that inhibit the activity of 5 -reductase, an enzyme that converts testosterone to the more bioactive DHT.”

This study also showed that the consumption of Green Tea as a beverage combined with Soy Isoflavone Concentrate significantly reduced DHT levels, and to some degree testosterone. Curiously it was found that the singular consumption of Green Tea raised both testosterone and DHT levels.

The implications of potential benefits to humans with Androgenetic Alopecia are significant.

It would appear reasonable based upon these findings that exclusive consumption of Black Tea or Black Tea Extract (Theaflavins) would likely reduce serum DHT to the same level as Propecia, and that the concurrent consumption of Soy Isoflavones or Soy Isoflavones with Green Tea would produce an additive effect.

Human studies done thus far on Soy and its effects on reproductive hormones in men in males indicate no apparent negative effect. It has also been established that Green Tea to some degree, suppresses androgen receptor signaling and inhibits both 5 alpha reductase isozymes. Green Tea and Grape Seed Extracts have been successfully combined with Taurine by L’Oreal to stop hair loss and promote hair growth. Based on this study however, some may feel that Green Tea should only be consumed with Soy. Given Green Tea's multitude of anti-androgenic actions and the increase in SHBG (low levels of SHBG are associated with male pattern hair loss) that Green tea consumption causes, it is our position that Green Tea, even if singularly consumed, will likely benefit those with hair loss.

It is well established that the incidence of male and female pattern balding in the rural Orient is a small fraction of what it is here in the United States, and that the incidence of Androgenetic Alopecia among Asians who live in the U.S. is much higher than those living in the Orient. Soy based foods, a dietary staple, and the regular beverage consumption of Green and Black Teas factor significantly, and are perhaps causative, in this phenomenon.

I don't know quite what to make of it - which tea is better combined with isoflavones - green or black?
And what do you think - will any of these ingredients combined together combat themselves - TOCO, GREEN TEA, SOY ISOFLAVONES, SAW PALMETTO.
I think not, but still we should give it a thought. We should see which one of these lowers testosteron, and which rises it.
As far as I know - toco = rise, green tea = rise, soy =? saw palmetto = acts on DHT

So as much as I can tell, it should be a good combo.

Sorry for the long post guys.

[gutted]

the pictures provided in this experiment -> http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.co...grow-hair.html

look more satisfying than the pictures provided withe tocoterinol study, dont you think?

[bananana]

Hi guys, I found a 4 year old "test" on tocotrienols (toco sorb), but the guy took them for just 2 months - thats way to little time to see some real results, nevertheless he experienced lesser shedding than usual when on toco sorb.

It is unknown wether he continued the test or not.

http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/02/hair-growth-with-vitamin-e-tocotrienols.html

anyways, here are some more experiences from body builders:


The Natural on Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:32 am
During the summer months, hair, in what I considered my safe areas, seemed to be thinning quite a bit. I initially attributed this to the type of brand that I was using at the time (e.g. LEF Super Bio). But now, I am not so sure. I recently decided to take my tocotrienols, Toco-8, at a different time (evening) from the curcumin/resveratrol combination (morning). And my hair has thickened right back up.

goten574 on Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:52 pm
I started taking MSM and Tocotrienols since mid August, usually one a day but sometimes two. (I would say 60&#37; of the time I take one, and 40% I take two). I usually take these two together with a variety of seeds such as Sesame, Pumpkin and Sunflower (1 tablespoon). I take the seeds for general health but heard the present of Sunflower enhances absorption of Tocotrienols. I also take Vitamin B Complex and D3 as well as drinking Spearmint and Green Tea regularly.

At the end of August, I started doing Balayam and also purchased a Boar Bristle Brush. I am not sure what is causing it but I really believe I am seeing results. I noticed my hair loss this time last year and although it does not look as good as it did back then, it's still minor and I am sure I see an improvement over the last couple of months. Who knows... sometimes I feel really good about my hair and other times I feel awful.

Also - interesting text on tocotrienols and tocopherols.
As someone said - they are NOT to be mixed together in large quantities.

Further, they claim delta and gamma tocotrienols are the most potent ones.

COMPARISON
toco sorb (2 caps) - 63 mg delta and 17 mg gamma
toco 8 (1 scoop) - 14 mg delta and 52 mg gamma

I dont know which combination is better.

Also I drink a lot of green tea daily (1-2 litres), does it affect tocotrienols in any way? Can I drink it immediately after/before taking toco?

Also - in the original study of toco-8, did participants take single scoop daily?

[bananana]

Interesting to hear.
I've always been told various seeds are good, but in strictly limited quantities i.e.
walnut is great for health - but to be taken daily in quantity that can fit in your hand, so I'm a bit sceptical about overdosing with sunflower seeds.
I'll look into dosage on google.

[NotBelievingIt]

...Maybe a combination of the both things. Even it is both then the sunflower seeds have still played a part in hair improvement.

Often times things work in synergy - they often say Finasteride/Minoxidil have a synergistic relationship since the min promotes hair growth that the fin can help protect and vice versa.

Perhaps just adding the sunflower seeds but continuing to smoke would have seen no improvement because it was "too much work" and vice versa there was nothing to boost your system when you did quit in the past.

[Thermal]

I would normally have put it all down to stopping smoking as well. However, I have stopped in the past for longer periods of time and did not seen any improvement in my hair then. Maybe something to do with stopping at a later age when blood circulation was worse than before and so stopping has had a greater impact. Not sure.

I haven't really made any other changes other than the smoking and sunflower seeds. Maybe a combination of the both things. Even it is both then the sunflower seeds have still played a part in hair improvement.

[NotBelievingIt]

Maybe relevant to Tocotrienol discussion due to vitamin E link - after finding out sunflower seeds were good for cholesterol control and said to help with hair growth I've been eating them by the "bucket load" for about 5 months. About 3 months into eating a pack a day (125g) I have noticed that my remaining hair (very few - I'm a NW6/7) have become much thicker. I shave my head completely so any small changes are easily seen/felt. The remaining hairs can now be seen at a distance and can be felt after a few days of shaving. This wasn't the case before eating the sunflower seeds as the hair was very thin and soft even when growing back in after a shave. I have also noticed two vellus hairs growing to around 2mm in areas that have only had very short, almost invisible, vellus hairs for 20+ years. Never seen this before and may not seem like a big deal but I am very proud of them!

However, I also stopped smoking at the same time. So this may have been the cause in hair improvement and not the sunflower seeds. But thought worth mentioning as I have never seen an improvement in my hair quality for 20+ years (was all down hill from 18 years old onwards).

Good to hear!

However your second paragraph is key. It is often the case when people "decide to change" - they also remove something of particular harm to the body (smoking, drinking) and positive changes start occuring and it can be difficult to determine which was the real catalyst for an unexpected or welcomed or even desired change.

Stopping smoking has helped immensely with oxygenated blood flow. Your capillaries all over are less constricted (including those in the scalp), you breath easier and your blood is more oxygenated. This will have the direct benefit of overall skin, hair and nail health.

[Thermal]

Maybe relevant to Tocotrienol discussion due to vitamin E link - after finding out sunflower seeds were good for cholesterol control and said to help with hair growth I've been eating them by the "bucket load" for about 5 months. About 3 months into eating a pack a day (125g) I have noticed that my remaining hair (very few - I'm a NW6/7) have become much thicker. I shave my head completely so any small changes are easily seen/felt. The remaining hairs can now be seen at a distance and can be felt after a few days of shaving. This wasn't the case before eating the sunflower seeds as the hair was very thin and soft even when growing back in after a shave. I have also noticed two vellus hairs growing to around 2mm in areas that have only had very short, almost invisible, vellus hairs for 20+ years. Never seen this before and may not seem like a big deal but I am very proud of them!

However, I also stopped smoking at the same time. So this may have been the cause in hair improvement and not the sunflower seeds. But thought worth mentioning as I have never seen an improvement in my hair quality for 20+ years (was all down hill from 18 years old onwards).

[gutted]

sorry posted on the the wrong thread.