Histogen Update - Spencer Kobren Speaks With Dr. Craig L. Ziering

[gmonasco]

Also those are pre clinical or in our terms "useless" trials. But even they showed hair regrow with a permanent touch which is very impressive.

Based solely on the pilot clinical trial (which is all the information we have at this point), I don't think you can even say that much. For all we know, HSC may simply have coaxed existing hairs out of the telogen phase early (similar to what minoxodil does).

[RichardDawkins]

Well but Minox cant do this in this kind of scale. Also Minox has to be used permanently. And here you have your hair even after the small injection.

Also you have to consider one thing, even if people say "Its not permanent" i have to disagree.

The head has a lot of blood vessels and fast metabolism and cycles, so in the case of a non permanent or non semi permant solution, the hair grow effect would have been succumbed really really fast and short after witnessing the hair.

Also your head area is one of the warmest of your whole body even in the wintertime so those factors would also be beneficial for HSC to vanish and to diminish or destroy the effect of it.

But this is only my opinion. I belive that if HSC wouldnt be permanent, your hair wouldnt even grow after the injection because i think if a follicle is in its end phase its highly unlikely for a non permanent injection to animate hair growth.

Also the critical 3 or 6 month mark where some of the hair was gone or reduced, in a non permanent case almost all of the hair would have been vanished but instead the hair count increased after one hair and was steady.

This would also contradict the normal way of hairloss, because dont forget, those hairs are the DHT succumbing ones.

Another strange theory i heared lately was, that someone mentioned the possibility of hair, when it succums to dht and gets afterwards awaken again, gets the information for resist DHT because it suffered before. Something like an "Anti-Gen" theory. Could be plausible but i dont know, on the other hand our body is very fast in adapting or rewrite things when it comes to infection deseases or anything else.

So maybe with a small percentage there is a slight bit of truth in this theory and HSC works as a good kickstart, while Acell on the other hand works as a soft and easy kickstart without that much impact.

The thing that backs up this theory for me is the ability of our hair to copy other hairs. And its always strange that even a small pill can hold or reduce hairloss and a shampoo can also help to benefit here.

It shows that the hair is somehow like a puppet and needs a puppet master to play with it. When it doesnt come to DHT, hair can be one tough motherfu****

But i am interested what you guys think

[KeepHoping]

Those hairs have been reported as lasting for 2 years plus with no signs of further loss unless I'm not understanding something... This is not what minoxidil does, plus it was one small dose and only one shot.

[UK_]

Such people are known as "mute."

Now please take the childish squabbling somewhere off this forum.

Wrong, such people can also be known as 'mute', it is, if one had the most basic grasp of the English language, a synonym for the word 'dumb'. Your arrogation regarding the naming of disabled individuals utterly astounds me. And you can not, by any means, sit there and tell me that you have never used such words, similar to the context in which I used them, and expect me to take you seriously.

[UK_]

Well yes but there is a difference between frustrated and just being a troll.

I saw repair patients here who had all the rights in the world to be frustrated but they are not ;-)

There is also a difference between trolling and constructive criticism.

[HairTalk]

I respectively disagree gmonasco.

If the original patients from the earlier trial are added and gain no benefit from phase 2 we could learn that maybe the hsc treatment is a one time results deal. Better to find out now and begin working on a way around it then waiting until later IMO

I think the cost vs beneficial information "we" might learn is definitely worth it.

I believe it would not make sense to include twelve persons treated during a pilot study, in a fresh trial of a product, re-injecting them more than two years after initial exposure. If Histogen wishes to examine whether multiple doses of H.S.C. will have compounded effect, it will have to do so on new subjects.

So I guess if histogen still needs to do Phase 1 2 AND 3 the release date of 2013 in Asia is way off.

Probably. We've not heard from Dr. Ziering in some time, and, as I mentioned in a recent post, I'd like him to provide a timeline for the upcoming study on H.S.C., as well updated results of the pilot study.

If phase I/II is run for one year, I think results could be analyzed then presented probably by the end of 2012. If all goes well, and phase III begins soon thereafter, things likely would be in order no sooner than early in 2015. Around then (again, if everything turns out well and the product is ready for introduction), I suppose H.S.C. could become available in places with lax government regulation of drugs, and it might be around 2016 that the product receives F.D.A. approval, in the United States.

I find it so irritating that patients can't sign a waiver prior to the FDA approval to get treatment for something. 2014 is such a long way off.

You find this irritating? I find it deeply annoying to see people make comments that, if realized, would be grossly dangerous and unethical. Why even have drug-approval? If people become ill or die on large scales, no problem: they signed waivers. And, don't give me the spiel about H.S.C.'s not being a potentially lethal compound: we're talking about regulation of pharmaceuticals, not about how specially H.S.C. should be treated, within the system — it cannot be.

[Purple Glow]

Originally Posted by CAlex
Hell Dr Ziering.

First thank-you for spending so much time answering all of the questions you receive on here.

I have a question which I hope you can answer. Do you know what area was being measured in Histogens first trial? It had statistics of an increase of 84 hairs after 1 year on patients who got the hsc injections!

I am trying to find over what area/2 that data is about. 2 cm2 1 inch/2 ??? etc http://www.histogen.com/aboutus/news_events.htm (about 1/5 down the page is what I refer to)

also if you are allowed or feel confident. how many hairs per cm/2 Histogen may be able to produce when all is said and done?

I dont expect it to be able to recreate original density but do you think 50 new hairs/cm2 is in the ballpark??

Thank you Dr. Ziering

The area measured is 1.47 cm2

84 hairs in 1.47 cm2

As I said before, 1.47 cm2 is roughly the size of a dime. For illustration purposes, I took a pen and traced the edge of a dime to make a circle, then plotted 84 dots inside to represent 84 new hairs.

http://img703.imageshack.us/f/dime01.jpg/

[gmonasco]

Wrong, such people can also be known as 'mute', it is, if one had the most basic grasp of the English language, a synonym for the word 'dumb'.

Nobody but the most rude, insensitive boor -- or someone with an exceedingly poor grasp of the English language -- would today refer to a non-speaking person as "dumb" rather than "mute."

And you can not, by any means, sit there and tell me that you have never used such words, similar to the context in which I used them, and expect me to take you seriously.

Sorry, but since leaving adolescence behind, I've never used any form of the word "retard" to refer to a human being. Pity you can't say the same.

Now please take your childish squabbling out of this forum.

[gmonasco]

Well but Minox cant do this in this kind of scale. Also Minox has to be used permanently. And here you have your hair even after the small injection.

But you don't know that HSC's effects are permanent, either. The best you can say is that they appear to last at least two years.

[UK_]

But you don't know that HSC's effects are permanent, either. The best you can say is that they appear to last at least two years.

Doesn't matter - 2 years with continued regrowth after one injection is something that has never been achieved before.

[BoSox]

I heard it lasts as long as it took your hair to fall out in the first place, what 30years? Permanent or not.. this stuff, if effective, will last long enough.

I do have a question, which I'm sure has been asked before. How will HSC restore one's hairline? Is that something HT's can only achieve?

[RichardDawkins]

@gmonasco : Well f hair stays even after 2 years fully attacked by DHT its in my books highly unlikely that it wont be permanent.

But you raise a good point and appreciate this, but no thing till today had those impact on hairs. Maybe with a grain of salt and all fingers crossed and the clover in the pocket this theory about adapting resistance against dht is true

Minox and fin slower hairloss but with HSC it just stops, like fall dead on the ground. and you have to see it like this " If this HSC driven new hair has regrowth itself, it was tha latest area of hairs which succumbs to dht, therefore it was their time to succumb" but how can this hair then even stay after two years, whil with fin and minox this hair would be gone long since.

And dont forget those were just "stupid little" pre clinical trials......which is highly impressive.

But dont get me wrong, i think that all the research right now was a lucky trick shot in the dark with closed eyes, which due a butterfly at the other end of the world, landed a Bullseye.

And yes when i speak about semi permanent, iam talking about hair that begins the circrle from anew till the day it succumbs.

So if this injection is repeatable (it is) then you could just get one full procedure done every 5 years or so of you keep feeling better.

Cause right now the hair remains for 2 years so only three more staying years and its sure fire :-)

And never gnore that will you have maybe to aim for every 5 years, progress will also be made and maybe they found a fully reversing treatment or hair transplantation will go automatic with unlimited donor WHO knows.

But one thing is sure, we should all be glad that we are living now and not 15 years ago with our age from today.

And gmonasco, dont you think its good, that those hairs even stay for 2 years, thats 2 years longer then anything else ^^

[LarryDavid]

I know i´m impatient, but it has been 5 weeks now. Maybe it would be possible for Spencer to speak to Ziering again and ask him when he is planing to publish the results of the latest injections.

[UK_]

Nobody but the most rude, insensitive boor -- or someone with an exceedingly poor grasp of the English language -- would today refer to a non-speaking person as "dumb" rather than "mute."



Sorry, but since leaving adolescence behind, I've never used any form of the word "retard" to refer to a human being. Pity you can't say the same.

Now please take your childish squabbling out of this forum.

But it is a synonym of the word you used, k?

I take it you've never come across the recent work: "The deaf and the dumb: the biology of ErbB-2 and ErbB-3"? Just an interesting article I was reading a few days ago.

You can access it online but you'll need a login.

Have you also heard of one of these:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/dumb_1

A wise man once said:

Know what you say before you speak what you say

[HairTalk]

But you don't know that HSC's effects are permanent, either. The best you can say is that they appear to last at least two years.

Doesn't matter - 2 years with continued regrowth after one injection is something that has never been achieved before.

The two-year–follow-up results have not yet been shared. I think the best we know, right now, is effects remain observable up to twelve months after treatment.