Histogen Update - Spencer Kobren Speaks With Dr. Craig L. Ziering

[UK_]

Ok do you have links for those claims? I guess not.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9349822?dopt=Citation

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9212109?dopt=Citation

"Overexpression of Shh can induce BCCs in mice."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16389455

"Abnormal activation of the Hedgehog pathway has been demonstrated in a variety of human tumors, including those of the skin, brain, lung and digestive tract. Hedgehog pathway activity in these tumors is required for cancer cell proliferation and tumor growth. "

Here you go you, next time before you decide in typing out another SOUL DESTROYING post like that do the research yourself.

As you may have read, there is actually one patient who got plucked hairs transplanted into his scar and UK_ just ignores that with his Cole statement " Show me the science".

Still beating yourself up over that? Seriously, let it go, its boring now. I told you before, your gonna most likely have to bite a tough bullet in the near future if these "revolutionary" biotech cures bite the dust - have fun talking to me when it happens .

Here are some nice efforts even without MYSELF answering anything at first, how UK_ (an obvious troll) tries to destroy a normal thread :

1) Troll acting number one : http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4604

And guess what, who is the first person to answer UK_ postings? Right its Bakez (a system?)

2) Spoken like a secret clinic rep http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthr...?t=4604&page=2

You know to give the impression that Acell didnt work and people should get normal hairtransplants instead.

3) Nobody can explain how, HOW Acell works : http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthr...?t=4604&page=3".

Wow... you really did go to some trouble here lol. How sad.

Just look at how this whole thread turned out, at first there were serious and matter related questions, but then UK_ got into and everything turned into a mess where the case itself wasnt the main thing anymore :-)".

I wouldnt wonder if he is another HairRobinHood Account to annoy people. You know guys scepticism is good, if its on a realistic level but mindless destroying and downtalking everything is just utterly stupid.

I think you are just beating yourself up over the fact that I know you are the user stevie.dee on hairsite, its an obvious one really - ye both have the same deluded fluffy-brained views about the promise of all these revolutionary biotech treatments. How on EARTH can you accuse me of being a fake/repeat account? LOL I can assure you, I am not, and I am certainly not "Iron_man" as you keep suggesting. Ask youself how many such treatments for the likes of cancer, heart disease and liver disease have gone through the same process of start-up, trial and failure, even in phase III. You're banking on a ver very very very big outcome on a small shred of hope, seriously, thats the reality - like it or lump it.

And please, can you keep your damn posts within the 1 paragraph limit.

[RichardDawkins]

First of all, even with knowing iam Stevie.Dee you are really late. Everyone knows and nobody cares for nicknames. But keep on put your effort in nicknames it will make your life easier...i guess.

To your studies :

1) 1997
2) Mice
3) CAN and WILL are two different things
4) Also it states clearly that it is not the only or solely factor, but you missed to quote that.

Soul Destroying? What are you talking about?

Yes iam still talking about this scar patient because you keep glueing at this

Dr Cole´s statement is accurate stuff. As long as you stick with that, i will stick with this patient. End of Story

No i didnt get in trouble quoting you or show links to your discussion style, i just wanted to show what people here should expect from someone like you. Its not sad at all, as long as it keep people think for themselves and not fall for an obvious clinic rep who remains anonymous.

Nobody cares for alternative nicknames from myself actually, but people do care for some trolls who jump on everything promising and destroy it. And you showed us exactly this kind of impulsive childish behaviour. Registered in february and almost all of your postings contain attacks, downtalking of new ideas, insults to people, like using the word retard.

It is in fact pretty obivous that your agenda is a foul one. You jump on every thread which involves new stuff to attack it. But the only time you did not was in the "Germans created artificial follicle" one. Well if i would guess i say its because those things wont run your clinic out of business so soon, but Acell or Histogen could.

And then i think, hmm Acell has not yet been approved in europe, so its highly unlikely that european clinics are happy with patients asking for an Acell treatment, so they are vivid in downtalking this.

I saw this on some european hairloss boards, which was vers strange at first but then it was just like we should expect it to finally pan out.

No i will write my postings like i wanna write em live with that because i also accept your "god damn" postings as they are.

I think you really have a problem with people being positive in life right :-) thats your problem not mine. I think we have all the reasons in the world to look into a bright future.

[UK_]

First of all, even with knowing iam Stevie.Dee you are really late. Everyone knows and nobody cares for nicknames. But keep on put your effort in nicknames it will make your life easier...i guess.
.

But that's not my bloody point! You harp and harp and blabber on about how I am someone else in a disguised account, you have accused me so far of being atleast three other people, you have accused me of representing some clinic, that I am here, on my own in all my glory to destroy the entire face of Acell research.

ARE YOU F***** SERIOUS?

To your studies :

1) 1997
2) Mice
3) CAN and WILL are two different things
4) Also it states clearly that it is not the only or solely factor, but you missed to quote that.

What has the date got to do with it? Seriously? In this context, the plausability of the data/study is not affected in any such way by the date of the study. If I injected your brain with SHH signalling proteins, you will have the same outcome as if I did it in 1967. I cannot believe you can actually type out that post and not realise that?

Soul Destroying? What are you talking about?
.

Unremittingly monotonous.

Dr Cole´s statement is accurate stuff..

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And PLEASE PLEASE can you shorten your posts?

[RichardDawkins]

No way, you are not that important to actually destroy the Acell research, actually you are not even a grain of sand in the huge gears of research, you are more like some funny person who needs attention and is heavily annoyed when people not fall into desperate and depressed state of minds. Yes iam positive, whats your problem with that.

You know why boards exist? Correct that people can share different opinions, and i made my opinions clear, so do you to a certain point, when we consider repeating one sentence all over again to be a valid argument.

Yes of course i said to you that you are different persons, to show you that its just not relevant in his discussion about Acell or Histogen (you started this nonsense with StevieDee etc and it just backfired)

Oh the date btw has something to do because you discredit the study about plucking hairs with exact the same things i did to yours :-) And again you outed yourself as a troll (not only because of you broken Caps Lock Button)

If there is no science behind, why didnt other docs comment on this matter so far? Only Dr Cole and he is quiet right now.

I really like your efforts to sound educated, but in the end you come up as an average troll who lost his temper.

Next time you quote me, do it right, i didnt say Dr Cole is right, i say as long as you stick with this old statement of him, i will stick to the patient with plucked hairs in his scar.

I say Dr Coles statement is not accurate nor is it an honest one because he did not back his easy said claims up. And he never commented on this matter again, so this shows me, that he has no interest in back up this claim anymore, or otherwise he wouldnt use Acell as a PRP therapy etc.

I am very sorry that your Acell Destroying depressed point of view has shattered like a mirror falling from the third floor. But thats the fact here, Dr Cole said it doesnt work, but one patient said it did work. So the best (for your position) is to admit 1 : 1 (if you dont wanna lose your face)

I wont shorten my postings because sometimes its very good to fully express what you think in a certain situation. Unless Dr Cole didnt prove to us, that it didnt work, his statement remains an hasty early one without fully get the facts right.

Why dont you just ask for pictures instead of poisoning all Acel threads? Are you to proud to ask for pictures or more informations?

Anyway just explain to me, why other clinics and docs keep experimenting with Acell ( you said this is not working) but why are they experimenting with this then? And its not only a hand full of docs it seems to me at least that there are more and more willing to use it.

Why is that? Can you explain this? Also why is it that big names use it right now? They even adopt this faster, then some docs switched from FUT to FUE.

I am actually not turning in circles here, i really wanna know how you can explain these things. I really dont take your attacks or whatever it is too personal, it amuses me in some way, because the more i have to think about some things like Acell and Histogen, the more you can see whats nonsense and whats realistic, because you really work with that and you do research yourself.

You cant compare a brain with hairs or so.A brain is much much much much more complex then a hair. Also the scale is another one.

[Bakez]

No way, you are not that important to actually destroy the Acell research, actually you are not even a grain of sand in the huge gears of research, you are more like some funny person who needs attention and is heavily annoyed when people not fall into desperate and depressed state of minds. Yes iam positive, whats your problem with that.

You know why boards exist? Correct that people can share different opinions, and i made my opinions clear, so do you to a certain point, when we consider repeating one sentence all over again to be a valid argument.

Yes of course i said to you that you are different persons, to show you that its just not relevant in his discussion about Acell or Histogen (you started this nonsense with StevieDee etc and it just backfired)

Oh the date btw has something to do because you discredit the study about plucking hairs with exact the same things i did to yours :-) And again you outed yourself as a troll (not only because of you broken Caps Lock Button)

If there is no science behind, why didnt other docs comment on this matter so far? Only Dr Cole and he is quiet right now.

I really like your efforts to sound educated, but in the end you come up as an average troll who lost his temper.

Next time you quote me, do it right, i didnt say Dr Cole is right, i say as long as you stick with this old statement of him, i will stick to the patient with plucked hairs in his scar.

I say Dr Coles statement is not accurate nor is it an honest one because he did not back his easy said claims up. And he never commented on this matter again, so this shows me, that he has no interest in back up this claim anymore, or otherwise he wouldnt use Acell as a PRP therapy etc.

I am very sorry that your Acell Destroying depressed point of view has shattered like a mirror falling from the third floor. But thats the fact here, Dr Cole said it doesnt work, but one patient said it did work. So the best (for your position) is to admit 1 : 1 (if you dont wanna lose your face)

I wont shorten my postings because sometimes its very good to fully express what you think in a certain situation. Unless Dr Cole didnt prove to us, that it didnt work, his statement remains an hasty early one without fully get the facts right.

Why dont you just ask for pictures instead of poisoning all Acel threads? Are you to proud to ask for pictures or more informations?

Anyway just explain to me, why other clinics and docs keep experimenting with Acell ( you said this is not working) but why are they experimenting with this then? And its not only a hand full of docs it seems to me at least that there are more and more willing to use it.

Why is that? Can you explain this? Also why is it that big names use it right now? They even adopt this faster, then some docs switched from FUT to FUE.

I am actually not turning in circles here, i really wanna know how you can explain these things. I really dont take your attacks or whatever it is too personal, it amuses me in some way, because the more i have to think about some things like Acell and Histogen, the more you can see whats nonsense and whats realistic, because you really work with that and you do research yourself.

You cant compare a brain with hairs or so.A brain is much much much much more complex then a hair. Also the scale is another one.

What is your point? Seriously?

[RichardDawkins]

That its very boring to read all the time depressing stuff only for the sake of downtalking something. Especially when it comes from guys who hijack all the New Invention threads and come up with one statement that has not been talked about anymore.

Also it is very very "stupid" to attack people because they are more optimistic then your average depressed hairloss sufferer.

But hey why dont you two guys share your Email adresses, so that you can switch mails with all the negative stuff :-)

You guys can talk as much negative stuf as you like it wont stop the progress

[UK_]

No way, you are not that important to actually destroy the Acell research, actually you are not even a grain of sand in the huge gears of research, you are more like some funny person who needs attention and is heavily annoyed when people not fall into desperate and depressed state of minds. Yes iam positive, whats your problem with that..

So then, why on earth do you keep stating that I am here to do just that? You have just answered your own question. On numerous occasions now you have accused me of being here to 'conspire' against the success of such treatments. I have been trying to convince you of how crazy an assumption that really is, I merely stated that Dr Cole's critique was accurate and correct, to which you have finally come to terms with. Well done. Took a while but we got there in the end.

You know why boards exist? Correct that people can share different opinions, and i made my opinions clear

So what is your point? lol - if boards are here to for us to openly discuss opinions and matters regarding happenings in reality, why on earth do you feel the need to sledgehammer every last one of my comments?

I am very sorry that your Acell Destroying depressed point of view has shattered like a mirror falling from the third floor. But thats the fact here, Dr Cole said it doesnt work, but one patient said it did work. So the best (for your position) is to admit 1 : 1 (if you dont wanna lose your face)

How on earth has my "Acell destroying depressed point of view" shattered like a mirror? (1) I do not maintain a "depressed point of view" I merely stated that Dr Cole's statement was an accurate one, that is what this entire discussion is about, I have also merely pointed out that we cannot get too optimistic about HSC because we all know what happend with SHH...

I think people (especially myself) are getting very bord of your long dreary posts, please kindly shorten them to one paragraph, I dont mean to patronize (lol) but learn how to conflate your argument into structured paragraphs please.

I say Dr Coles statement is not accurate )

Make your mind up - for Gods sake - do you think it is an accurate statement or not? Obviously IT IS because there is NO EVIDENCE to prove contrary, which is why if you read my INITIAL comment, I used the term REMAINS ACCURATE.

IT REMAINS ACCURATE

IT REMAINS ACCURATE

IT REMAINS ACCURATE

Anyway just explain to me, why other clinics and docs keep experimenting with Acell ( you said this is not working) )

This STILL has no bearing on Dr Coles comment, IT REMAINS AN ACCURATE ONE - please for the love of the mother of all Gods of the heavens UNDERSTAND THAT DR COLES COMMENT - NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WISH TO TELL YOURSELF -REMAINS ACCURATE.



There could be a number of reasons why Dr Cole hasn't posted yet, he could be saving a cat stuck up a tree, but I highly doubt his reason for not posting lately is the unbearable embarrassment he will face due to the shocking, awe-inspiring current progress made by the researchers studying the use of Acell.

Conclusion

Nothing you can say will refute Dr Coles comment, no amount of "oh this surgeon believes in this" "oh that surgeon has achieved that" will suffice to refute that comment.

Try as you might, you will fail.

P.S. I think the term is 'lose face', and with all due respect, I couldn't care less about my 'status' in the eyes of others regarding my comments on this site .

[UK_]

That its very boring to read all the time depressing stuff only for the sake of downtalking something. Especially when it comes from guys who hijack all the New Invention threads and come up with one statement that has not been talked about anymore.

Also it is very very "stupid" to attack people because they are more optimistic then your average depressed hairloss sufferer.

But hey why dont you two guys share your Email adresses, so that you can switch mails with all the negative stuff :-)

You guys can talk as much negative stuf as you like it wont stop the progress

Mr Happy Tyrant.

[KeepHoping]

Dr. Ziering

It's a shame people argue on these threads instead of actually having a civilized discourse, we are here because we are dealing with hair loss, we are looking for a solution to our problem so lets work together....

That aside, I wanted to ask you Dr. Ziering, if WNT proteins seem to be the golden ticket here as a growth factor for hair growth why do you think doctors haven't tried to incorporate WNT proteins into their PRP solutions as a growth factor. Does that kind of work require an FDA clearance? Second, will Histogen post the pictures of the 2 year results from the first safety trail? You mentioned earlier that they had still retained all the hair two years post procedure, if so that's incredible. Finally, was there some type of small pre phase 1 trail that is going to be put up as well? I'm very excited for your research and results and I believe this could be the answer for many people dealing with hairloss.

Thank you in advance.

[UK_]

It's a shame people argue on these threads instead of actually having a civilized discourse, we are here because we are dealing with hair loss, we are looking for a solution to our problem so lets work together....

You try getting a point across to this guy - DHT will be the least of your worries.

[mlao]

It's a shame people argue on these threads instead of actually having a civilized discourse, we are here because we are dealing with hair loss, we are looking for a solution to our problem so lets work together....

That aside, I wanted to ask you Dr. Ziering, if WNT proteins seem to be the golden ticket here as a growth factor for hair growth why do you think doctors haven't tried to incorporate WNT proteins into their PRP solutions as a growth factor. Does that kind of work require an FDA clearance? Second, will Histogen post the pictures of the 2 year results from the first safety trail? You mentioned earlier that they had still retained all the hair two years post procedure, if so that's incredible. Finally, was there some type of small pre phase 1 trail that is going to be put up as well? I'm very excited for your research and results and I believe this could be the answer for many people dealing with hairloss.

Thank you in advance.

Yeah it would be great if Dr. Zering could ignore some of the infighting and answer questions from some of the less vocal forum members.

[UK_]

Yeah it would be great if Dr. Zering could ignore some of the infighting and answer questions from some of the less vocal forum members.

We should just have a separate thread for all our arguments lol.

Can the moderator not delete some of our posts to clear it up a little?

[CVAZBAR]

C'mon guys, I understand people have differences and you argue here and there but you guys are ****ing up the threads. You guys should just privately contact each other and maybe put on some gloves and beat each other up. Then Ill probably go watch haha.

[RichardDawkins]

UK_ you shouldnt use too much of those LOL and Smileys it makes you seem to people like a total naive kid. And to a certain point it is really embarrassing me and maybe other people here. I think if some mods would delete stuff here, your counter would decrease more then hairloss on a NW7 guy, thats for sure.

Anyway using lol and smiley seems very ridicolous to me, you should stop with this its painful to read.I am actually more interested in seeing those promised resuls after four weeks, when it was said some time ago. Nope i dont agree with Dr Cole, never said that. You interpret to much. Well i did not sledgehammer your "arguments" i only show my perspective. Because iam not one of those "Yeah lets all be sad guys who use Smileys and LOL but in the night i cry bitter tears because i loose hair"

Even if i dont like Iron.Man he had give THE most accurate statement till now. "That the current generation of hairtransplants (follicle planting) is just a Pre Step to the infinite donor (hair multiplication what people generally think it is)" You can say that it took some generations of redefining hair transplants to get to a point where infinite Donor is actually possible.

And if you analyse it from a medical standpoint, the procedure or technique never changes but the performance does. First you had chunks of flesh in combination with doll hair plugs. After that you redefine the second step to get micrografts. At some point, someone had the idea to harvest the hair not in flesh chunks, instead just "stance" them out of the donor area (first generation problem Shotgun holes).

Then at some point in time FUE was developed without those huge shot gun holes. One thing which occured during several FUE transplants even in the past was, that sometimes in the donor area the follicle or more precisely the hair grew back as if it wasnt harvested. And now i can certainly say we are close at the brink of a changing future because now there are ambitions to make this extra ordinary thing called regrow, to a more or less standard procedure.

You just have to ask yourself the question " Why do grafts survive even if you maybe hit them hard and transect them"? the key is in fact the tissue with the genetic material which surrounds the hair (i mean the hair as a result and not the follicle itself only the visible hair). Also it is possible not to extract the whole hair and follicle STRUCTURES and provide hair regrow in the donor area with this technique.

The worst part here is, that Dr Cole in fact has some key elements for this to work, but i think he needs a little bit of motivation. Just remember, he uses his CIT by extracting follicles but not as deep like the normal FUE , also he witnessed new blood vessels after he uses Acell on this area.

So now just put all your hatred for my persona aside for one second and think this through.Try to imagine what would happen if you not stance out the whole follicle and his structure but instead you extract only the vital parts for hair to survive (tissue etc) and use an ECM for recipient and donor side and also "feed" the plucked or harvested hair with it.

What do you personally believe will happen? Thats a legitimate question, what do you personally believe? And then you will see why Dr Coles statement is more sad in a way for hairloss sufferers then it is accurate. I think the sad aspect of unused potential outweights everything else.

[UK_]

UK_ you shouldnt use too much of those LOL and Smileys it makes you seem to people like a total naive kid. And to a certain point it is really embarrassing me and maybe other people here. I think if some mods would delete stuff here, your counter would decrease more then hairloss on a NW7 guy, thats for sure....

When you stop blabbering on about whatever point it is you are trying to make, ill stop using icons k?

By the way... What IS your point?

Nope i dont agree with Dr Cole, never said that. You interpret to much,

Well, you did call it "accurate stuff" how else am I supposed to interpret it? lol.

Your quote:

Dr Cole´s statement is accurate stuff...

What on earth? Make up your bloody mind Stevie.Dee.

Well i did not sledgehammer your "arguments" i only show my perspective....

So why do you have a problem with literally EVERYTHING I say on these forums? Why do you have an issue with me agreeing with Dr Coles statement? LOL

I did not come and talk to you, you came and decided to quote/respond to me, so you are the one who is attacking my position on Acell, I asked you to prove my position wrong, which you failed to do so... so what on earth else do you want from me?

Seriously: What do you want? and What is the point of your posts?

Even if i dont like Iron.Man he had give THE most accurate statement till now. "That the current generation of hairtransplants (follicle planting) is just a Pre Step to the infinite donor (hair multiplication what people generally think it is)" You can say that it took some generations of redefining hair transplants to get to a point where infinite Donor is actually possible.

And if you analyse it from a medical standpoint, the procedure or technique never changes but the performance does. First you had chunks of flesh in combination with doll hair plugs. After that you redefine the second step to get micrografts. At some point, someone had the idea to harvest the hair not in flesh chunks, instead just "stance" them out of the donor area (first generation problem Shotgun holes).

Then at some point in time FUE was developed without those huge shot gun holes. One thing which occured during several FUE transplants even in the past was, that sometimes in the donor area the follicle or more precisely the hair grew back as if it wasnt harvested. And now i can certainly say we are close at the brink of a changing future because now there are ambitions to make this extra ordinary thing called regrow, to a more or less standard procedure.

You just have to ask yourself the question " Why do grafts survive even if you maybe hit them hard and transect them"? the key is in fact the tissue with the genetic material which surrounds the hair (i mean the hair as a result and not the follicle itself only the visible hair). Also it is possible not to extract the whole hair and follicle STRUCTURES and provide hair regrow in the donor area with this technique.

So now just put all your hatred for my persona aside for one second and think this through.Try to imagine what would happen if you not stance out the whole follicle and his structure but instead you extract only the vital parts for hair to survive (tissue etc) and use an ECM for recipient and donor side and also "feed" the plucked or harvested hair with it.

What do you personally believe will happen? Thats a legitimate question, what do you personally believe? And then you will see why Dr Coles statement is more sad in a way for hairloss sufferers then it is accurate. I think the sad aspect of unused potential outweights everything else.....

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH YADDA YADDA YADDA YADDA YADDA ...

Me thinks you are obsessed with hair loss, you need counselling.