Further Follicept civil conversation

[serenemoon]

The guy didnt even want to shave his head, for crying out loud. "amaterish at best", that's giving them way too much credit.

I hear you about the head shave, but I am going to be watching that hair line very closely. I want them to go big and DRAMATIC. Or go home. And that hair line (if it is dramatic) will be obvious even without the big shave. For me to buy that product, I need to see a nice NW 0-1 hair line. Yup, my standards are very high this time around.

[serenemoon]

I see what you’re saying and agree with you. The thing is, legitimate companies tend to make every trial “official.” Time is money and every step of the process is of vital importance to demonstrating the success of the product. While it appears transparent to involve the public and hair loss forum members in the process, it would not happen in the real world of clinical study for various legal and ethical reasons.

True, but the in house trial is precisely so that they know if spendng money on official trals would be worth it. They guys are new and don't have the kind of funding that big companies like UpJohn have access to, so they have to be careful before spending a ton of money on official trials (aka they have to make sure it will be worth it.) If those six in house guys grow a nice amount of hair, then I think they will feel confident in dumping money on the clinical trials. If not, back to square one to perfect the treatment. They are legit..just..trying to be careful I think, since they don't have massive amounts of money.

[Arashi]

It’s going to take far longer than a couple of months to verify any type of meaningful results and I disagree with your statement about Devon and his hairline. The slightest change in lighting or difference in camera position can make it appear that his hairline has either gotten better or worse. Any legitimate company would invest in accurate documentation methods, including third party densitometry, miniaturization mapping and use a clinical photo booth. The way they are presenting so far is amateurish at best.

The guy didnt even want to shave his head, for crying out loud. "amaterish at best", that's giving them way too much credit.

[amadeus]

I see what you’re saying and agree with you. The thing is, legitimate companies tend to make every trial “official.” Time is money and every step of the process is of vital importance to demonstrating the success of the product. While it appears transparent to involve the public and hair loss forum members in the process, it would not happen in the real world of clinical study for various legal and ethical reasons.

I think your line of thinking is accurate if the improvement is minimal. But if it is genuinely dramatic as they expect it to be (and let's be honest, if it is not dramatic, why would anyone buy it when there are things such as Rogaine?) then I don't think they can really fool us in a "video" like that. I hope you get what I am trying to say. I do think that if the results are not dramatic, then the "fooling" tactics will work on some people. I am not saying this is definitely going to be the case, but let's say he grows a NW 0 then I don't see how any amount of lighting/camera position woud change our perception. I do see where you are coming from though. They will be doing trichoscans and all that good stuff in the official clinical trials.

[serenemoon]

It’s going to take far longer than a couple of months to verify any type of meaningful results and I disagree with your statement about Devon and his hairline. The slightest change in lighting or difference in camera position can make it appear that his hairline has either gotten better or worse. Any legitimate company would invest in accurate documentation methods, including third party densitometry, miniaturization mapping and use a clinical photo booth. The way they are presenting so far is amateurish at best.

I think your line of thinking is accurate if the improvement is minimal. But if it is genuinely dramatic as they expect it to be (and let's be honest, if it is not dramatic, why would anyone buy it when there are things such as Rogaine?) then I don't think they can really fool us in a "video" like that. I hope you get what I am trying to say. I do think that if the results are not dramatic, then the "fooling" tactics will work on some people. I am not saying this is definitely going to be the case, but let's say he grows a NW 0 then I don't see how any amount of lighting/camera position woud change our perception. I do see where you are coming from though. They will be doing trichoscans and all that good stuff in the official clinical trials.

[amadeus]

It’s going to take far longer than a couple of months to verify any type of meaningful results and I disagree with your statement about Devon and his hairline. The slightest change in lighting or difference in camera position can make it appear that his hairline has either gotten better or worse. Any legitimate company would invest in accurate documentation methods, including third party densitometry, miniaturization mapping and use a clinical photo booth. The way they are presenting so far is amateurish at best.

+1. We won't know for at least two months. I don't think it will be easy for Devon to lie about his hair line, especially we get to see his hair line progress through VIDEO, so that will kind of be positive proof for me.

[serenemoon]

The real reason that it isn't worth talking about is becuase they are TESTING IT RIGHT NOW... so there isn't much to talk about until they release results (good or bad). Then there is room for more debate/conversation....

At this point, its either (1) people posting to hear themselves post or (2) people asking some absurd hypothetical answerless question....

The fact is, we'll have some results (again, good or bad) shortly... not much else to talk about, past or present.

+1. We won't know for at least two months. I don't think it will be easy for Devon to lie about his hair line, especially we get to see his hair line progress through VIDEO, so that will kind of be positive proof for me.

[NeedHairASAP]

Amen! Maybe you're right, it probably isn't such a great idea to try to continue a conversation about this. I mean, what's the point really? The posters who spend most of their time going back and fourth to make the their little points are usually not the most rational people and I agree they are only toxic to this community.

The real reason that it isn't worth talking about is becuase they are TESTING IT RIGHT NOW... so there isn't much to talk about until they release results (good or bad). Then there is room for more debate/conversation....

At this point, its either (1) people posting to hear themselves post or (2) people asking some absurd hypothetical answerless question....

The fact is, we'll have some results (again, good or bad) shortly... not much else to talk about, past or present.

[Delphi]

That’s true and that’s the way these types of threads all turn out. The fanatics on either side take over and all of a sudden the thread is 200 pages. As far as Devon, I would have to agree with Delphi about his pandering to these desperate members. He’s not a stupid guy, he understands the importance of building an audience in a community like this one. He got what he could out of BTT and took all of his sycophants over to his website so he can freely indulge their desperate need for hope without question. Hey, that's cool, I understand he's a business man, but lets call it for what it really is. I personally think the fanatics ruin this great community. People come here for help, not ridiculous drama.

Amen! Maybe you're right, it probably isn't such a great idea to try to continue a conversation about this. I mean, what's the point really? The posters who spend most of their time going back and fourth to make the their little points are usually not the most rational people and I agree they are only toxic to this community.

[PayDay]

I really don't think Devon is to blame for anything. Go back through the old posts. The conversation was completely civil until certain members of this forum made it otherwise. He was simply stating that they had a product that showed potential. He never said they were 100% sure of it's effectiveness. The dreamers turned it into a dream and the haters turned it into a fraud.

That’s true and that’s the way these types of threads all turn out. The fanatics on either side take over and all of a sudden the thread is 200 pages. As far as Devon, I would have to agree with Delphi about his pandering to these desperate members. He’s not a stupid guy, he understands the importance of building an audience in a community like this one. He got what he could out of BTT and took all of his sycophants over to his website so he can freely indulge their desperate need for hope without question. Hey, that's cool, I understand he's a business man, but lets call it for what it really is. I personally think the fanatics ruin this great community. People come here for help, not ridiculous drama.

[jamesst11]

I really don't think Devon is to blame for anything. Go back through the old posts. The conversation was completely civil until certain members of this forum made it otherwise. He was simply stating that they had a product that showed potential. He never said they were 100% sure of it's effectiveness. The dreamers turned it into a dream and the haters turned it into a fraud.

[PayDay]

I don’t think a civil, respectful discussion will ever gain any traction. These types of overnight hit products usually attract the really aggressive types on all the forums. They are either going to kiss Devon’s ass or call him a scam artist, and there is usually no real middle ground. I think it’s best to just keep this type of nonsense off the forum, it only gives kids false hope and gives legitimacy to Follicept, If Follicept ends up working, we’ll all learn about it in the news. If history has taught us anything, not a single company who has used these forums to promote their cures has ever amounted to anything.

[Delphi]

Maybe this thread should have been re named to 'lets all slate follicept'.

Seriously though, they've had nobody's money and until they have sufficient proof it grows hair they won't get anybody's money. Please respect these people for at least trying to find an alternative to crippling pills, disgusting foams and pathetic hair transplants. Obviously it could flop, We all know this, but as no money is being requested then let us stop moaning and have patience.

I think being civil and having patients is always the way to go, but we all have to realize the Devon came here for a reason and even states on his own website that “BTT served its purpose”. Asking for money right away isn’t the smart move and they know this. Endearing themselves and becoming entrenched in the hair loss community will be much more effective in the end, so no one on these forums should be naive enough to think otherwise. The fact that Devon asked for feed back on their logo and for other ideas from the community is a classic psychological tactic for building trust.

I think having a real and respectful discussion about Follicept and not one filled with hype, speculation and desperate hope can be very beneficial.

[gainspotter]

Maybe this thread should have been re named to 'lets all slate follicept'.

Seriously though, they've had nobody's money and until they have sufficient proof it grows hair they won't get anybody's money. Please respect these people for at least trying to find an alternative to crippling pills, disgusting foams and pathetic hair transplants. Obviously it could flop, We all know this, but as no money is being requested then let us stop moaning and have patience.

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

Ding dong, the witch is dead.