follicept - what's this?

[Clion1995]

If we used Minox only once a day in the morning and used this once a night, wouldn't it still be okay to use Minox?

[serenemoon]

If we used Minox only once a day in the morning and used this once a night, wouldn't it still be okay to use Minox?

Maybe after you wash your scalp afterwards. I had a similar question for Follicept earlier, we will see what they say. I use minoxidil and do want to use IGF-1, it is the shedding that worries me. I hope that they do at least a few patients who are interested in switching over (as a side trial) so that we know to prepare ourselves. Cos that post minoxidil hair loss is no joke.

[FrenchNewbie]

I suggest one thing for Devon. I don't like the gallery of this forum. I suggest flickr to follow the test day by day with only one URL with automatic date and chronology. Flickr doesn't compress too much photos. And it's more simple to share it on websites (maybe facebook or twitter for certain persons).

Ps: I have a question for those who use Minox... if unfortunatelly Follicept doesn't work on human i think i will test it. I'm attacked on the vertex/crow and it go the midscalp (like Zidane but it's not hardcore like him for the moment). Is it a good drug to recover some hairs here? I'm not attack on the front hair (i lost 1cm in 10 years, but i'm 30 years old, i accept it). If yes, what is the best formulation of minoxidil? Rogaine? Many thanks.

[sdsurfin]

Sdsurfin, I used to like your posts. I remember you had some interesting contributions in the Gardner thread, based on facts and actual research. But now it seems you've lost it and are just posting speculation like 99% of the people here. Or am I missing something ? Do you have even 1 article that shows IGF-1 increased follice count as much as Minox could ? If not, then why are you saying the above ? What happened to you ? Why the turn from facts to speculation ?

Swooping posted several scientific articles, all showing that it most likely won't work. Yet here you are, claiming otherwise, even GUARANTEEING growthfactors are the key. Why ?

Not dissing you, just genuinely interested.

Yes, Arashi, you are missing quite a lot. Also no forum trial is necessary nor will it happen, so you can all stop discussing it. it makes no sense. follicept does not need this forum, but they have been nice enough to be open with us and involve us in this pre clinical stage of their testing. Like devon has said many times, they will not sell anything until they are sure of having a good product. If their trials go well and you're not interested or skeptical, then don't buy it. simple as that. Once their product is available you are welcome to try it for yourself or organize whatever trials you want, but they have no reason to cater to the every whim of every nutcase on these forums.

I am in personal contact with Devon and Dr Hsu and there is absolutely zero evidence that they are anything but ethical scientists and businessmen who stumbled on an idea with great potential, and want to develop it in an open and honest fashion. They have been more than kind and patient vis a vis their interaction with the morons on this post, I'm actually pretty baffled that they would even want to come on here at all. I've actually told Devon several times that he shouldn't waste his time on here, as the only thing to gain is a lot of skepticism from people who are disappointed by other companies and who not really understand the science behind this. Not to mention the various deeply maladaptive psychological profiles of some of the most prolific posters on here. Although there are some good sane people checking this forum , this is basically a snake's pit of self important and deeply troubled personalities, many of whom will be obsessively negative or positive no matter what facts are presented. and no company with a promising product needs to be on here to develop their science. Despite that, he's been nice enough to agree to keep you guys posted on progress, mainly because a couple of us have provided insight (these guys are just learning about hair loss themselves, although being an accomplished scientist, Dr. Hsu knows a great deal more than anyone on here about chemical and biological pathways in general) and because they really do want to help people. If their product works, they will not depend on this forum to be successful.

Might follicept fail? Sure. But the science is very sound and very promising. If you want to know how i came to this conclusion, read my arguments with swooping and the earlier posts on this thread. From what I've seen, you seem to really get off on obsessively picking things apart, and in the case of Dr. Nigam you were quite correct. I can 100 percent assure you that these guys have nothing in common with him, and you should just let this play out and see what happens. follicept are not scamming anybody, and from my personal contact with dr. hsu, i can tell you that he is exactly the kind of scientist we need on our side. even if this approach fails, he is extremely interested in the science of AGA and is very curious to come up with a solution. I email with him when I have ideas, and unless asshole pseudo-scientific insecure balding dudes annoy these guys enough, they are very interested in perfecting their technique for AGA. IGF-1 is only the beginning of a perfected treatment using their vehicle. What I can tell you is that it is essentially working on the same chemical basis for histogen and PRP, except in a more controlled and direct manner. The mor epeople learn about hair loss, the more we know that growth factors like IGF-1 (and others) are the chemical mitigators of hair growth and loss. They are controlled by the androgen, ant, and b catenin pathways among others, and in addition to the observations that follicept has made in rat models that mimic human balding skin, there is ever mounting evidence that IGF-1 is a very important mediating factor in the follicle. Ignore any articles that have to do with serum levels of IGF-1 (swooping loves those), as they do not indicate a causal relationship with hair growth. Because of non-disclosure, I cannot tell you everything about it or how/why their method has developed, but like you said, I'm a smart guy who is very objective and don't get excited about things that I don't understand. Growth factors have continually been proven to influence hair loss, and if I was dr. Hsu I would be pursuing this avenue as well. The things that they noticed have great promise. Unlike other people on here I don't have the time to be posting on here continuously, nor do I care to. Swooping is a waste of time, if your knowledge base on IGF-1 depends on the things he posts then you are being misinformed. all he does is link articles that he does not fully understand.

All we can do is wait and see if Devon notices positive results, and if he does, I can assure you that they will run trials which are very professionally done and objective. They are not indian charlatans who want to make a quick buck. they are a legitimate startup that wants to address other more devastating diseases, and are excited and passionate about the potential to use it for hair- something they stumbled on (kind of like rogaine or propecia), These guys are not a huge pharma, and this is is how great discovery in science often works- small groups making big discoveries. If this pans out, they will not need this forum to market this to bigger players and get it out to the world.

As far as my own objectivity, I cannot guarantee this will work, but I have high hopes and am almost 100 percent sure that it will do SOMETHING. IGF-1s effects on hair follicles have been observed way too many times for it to not do anything. I would similarly not be incredibly surprised if it doesn't work perfectly, or wasn't much better than rogaine. But it could be much better too. Human trials will be crucial, and I think there are issues with cycling, dosing etc that will need to be ironed out before we have a perfect product. What I can say is everyone chill the **** out and again, let the pros do their work. I've been talking to Dr. hsu about more detailed aspects of hair loss pathways, and basically they want to try the IGF-1 approach before getting more complicated, as it may be the most simple and effective current solution. If it works, they won't stop there to perfect a treatment.



In other news, still waiting for TLR to get some PGD2 blockers and maybe CB on the market, sucks that its been so slow, but i am in touch and will let you guys know when something comes to fruition. As we have all seen, getting these chemicals can be a difficult task. I've been using adenosine (shiseido's adenogen) , and pretty sure its having a positive impact on my hair, so for those of you who can't use rogaine, you might look into it. adenosine has also been shown to promote IGF-1 and other hair growth factors.

[sdsurfin]

I suggest one thing for Devon. I don't like the gallery of this forum. I suggest flickr to follow the test day by day with only one URL with automatic date and chronology. Flickr doesn't compress too much photos. And it's more simple to share it on websites (maybe facebook or twitter for certain persons).

Ps: I have a question for those who use Minox... if unfortunatelly Follicept doesn't work on human i think i will test it. I'm attacked on the vertex/crow and it go the midscalp (like Zidane but it's not hardcore like him for the moment). Is it a good drug to recover some hairs here? I'm not attack on the front hair (i lost 1cm in 10 years, but i'm 30 years old, i accept it). If yes, what is the best formulation of minoxidil? Rogaine? Many thanks.

you might try lipogaine (didn't give me dark circles under the eyes as much as rogaine) or adenogen by shiseido, which has given me zero side effects. I would use adenogen either way. Lipogaine has great reviews online, and it also does not make my head itch, though with minox that is always a possibility. I know people who have maintained their hair for a long time on minox, for some people it works amazingly, for some not so much. It sounds like your loss isn't so aggressive, especially since you're already 30.

[Keki]

sd why are you using adenogen? It's the old expensive version, i wish i could order the real adenovirus in europe but you know customs... for this reason if follicept works i will work hard to help devon the best i can, and for now i'm waiting before take anything even if i'm a nw3

But if you are american you can find the adenovirus on amazon, so easy and cheap, i wish the uk one had it

[FrenchNewbie]

you might try lipogaine (didn't give me dark circles under the eyes as much as rogaine) or adenogen by shiseido, which has given me zero side effects. I would use adenogen either way. Lipogaine has great reviews online, and it also does not make my head itch, though with minox that is always a possibility. I know people who have maintained their hair for a long time on minox, for some people it works amazingly, for some not so much. It sounds like your loss isn't so aggressive, especially since you're already 30.

Thank you so much. I will see these products. My loss is not agressive. It is pernicious. It started when i was 26 but i didn't saw it (my mother told me that when i was 29). I have 2 vertex (left and right) not one. My hairs are smaller and smaller. Now you can see my skin on my vertex, but i have some hairs on it. So with a very small amount of toppik, no one see my loss. But now it go on my midscalp. It's so pernicious. In 4 years, if it continue, i will be like Zidane who is a beautifull guy. Without hairs, i'm not like him.

I can't continue with Toppik. In our societies, these cosmetics are credible for girls. And i don't want continue to lie to me. So i need Follicept if not i will take Minox and thinking about FUE. For Fina, i don't want to play with my male hormones. For my health. For my ethic too.

P.S: I totally agree with your previous post.

@Keki, if you want an help for a product from Europe, i can send it you as a gift. It could be better for customs. If you want i can add cheese.

[diffuseloser]

Thank you sdsurfin. Great post and just what this thread needed. I agree with you 100%. It's fantastic that you are liaising with Devon, Dr. Hsu and Follicept and I'm glad it's you of all people. I'm also looking forward to hearing how it goes with TLR as I'd be interested in buying some CB and PGD2 blockers also. Thanks for your efforts with this and also with Follicept. We need it and your enthusiasm and determination is much appreciated.

Does anyone know where I can get a hold of some adeno in the United Kingdom? Any of you Europeans interested in a group buy some time in the near future? Waiting to see how it pans out with Follicept and if the results are in any way positive I'll be dropping my min/RU regime and giving it a shot.

French, I can't imagine Zidane with hair. Now there's a guy that could pull off the bald look with panache.

[FrenchNewbie]

Zidane with all his hairs: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HI1NaxxWq4...+Euro+1996.png
Now: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ane_2008-2.jpg

I think he is better without hairs. But we can see that he has a frontline shaved. It's the reason why he seems to be "young".

Same thing for Pep Guardiola (coach of Bayern Munchen for americans) this front line change a lot of things... more than vertex i think. With beard: http://www.gentlemale.fr/wp-content/...ine-zidane.jpg

So i can say one thing. If Follicept really works and permit to recover all of your hair, some people will not have interests to use it. And if they use it, they will shave their head with a gain of youth cause of the new front line (shaved).

[diffuseloser]

I'm pretty certain I could not pull off the shaved look like Zidane or Guardiola. But, right now it's looking like the only viable option. I've tried pretty much everything besides fin which I will not mess with. I'd happily shave my head if it just looked shaved and not because I have hair loss. With diffuse loss all over the top, the back and sides would stand out more so I'd have to go all in and take it down completely. I still haven't been able to do it but I hope that when I do, it will be liberating and I'll stick with it.

On a side note, welcome to the forum, it's good to have some more Europeans in here.

[FrenchNewbie]

Thanks my friend! I love UK. Specially when PSG beats Chelsea in Champions League.

I have a limited diffuse hair loss (+vertex +midscalp). I learned how to cut my hair myself (with this type of tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7IgJRgvCuE) . I make an high bald fade. When you totally cut the sides, people will think you have more hairs on top. Like Lucas Moura in PSG (you can see on Youtube in 2013 and in 2015, he has a diffuse very young). Then, to be elegant, you need to have the skin tanned by sun or UV and the most important: have a good style. I wear suits for my job, so my budget goes here. With a very small amount of Toppik, no one could think i loose my hair (i'm NW3, maybe more).

[stayhopeful]

Yes, Arashi, you are missing quite a lot. Also no forum trial is necessary nor will it happen, so you can all stop discussing it. it makes no sense. follicept does not need this forum, but they have been nice enough to be open with us and involve us in this pre clinical stage of their testing. Like devon has said many times, they will not sell anything until they are sure of having a good product. If their trials go well and you're not interested or skeptical, then don't buy it. simple as that. Once their product is available you are welcome to try it for yourself or organize whatever trials you want, but they have no reason to cater to the every whim of every nutcase on these forums.

I am in personal contact with Devon and Dr Hsu and there is absolutely zero evidence that they are anything but ethical scientists and businessmen who stumbled on an idea with great potential, and want to develop it in an open and honest fashion. They have been more than kind and patient vis a vis their interaction with the morons on this post, I'm actually pretty baffled that they would even want to come on here at all. I've actually told Devon several times that he shouldn't waste his time on here, as the only thing to gain is a lot of skepticism from people who are disappointed by other companies and who not really understand the science behind this. Not to mention the various deeply maladaptive psychological profiles of some of the most prolific posters on here. Although there are some good sane people checking this forum , this is basically a snake's pit of self important and deeply troubled personalities, many of whom will be obsessively negative or positive no matter what facts are presented. and no company with a promising product needs to be on here to develop their science. Despite that, he's been nice enough to agree to keep you guys posted on progress, mainly because a couple of us have provided insight (these guys are just learning about hair loss themselves, although being an accomplished scientist, Dr. Hsu knows a great deal more than anyone on here about chemical and biological pathways in general) and because they really do want to help people. If their product works, they will not depend on this forum to be successful.

Might follicept fail? Sure. But the science is very sound and very promising. If you want to know how i came to this conclusion, read my arguments with swooping and the earlier posts on this thread. From what I've seen, you seem to really get off on obsessively picking things apart, and in the case of Dr. Nigam you were quite correct. I can 100 percent assure you that these guys have nothing in common with him, and you should just let this play out and see what happens. follicept are not scamming anybody, and from my personal contact with dr. hsu, i can tell you that he is exactly the kind of scientist we need on our side. even if this approach fails, he is extremely interested in the science of AGA and is very curious to come up with a solution. I email with him when I have ideas, and unless asshole pseudo-scientific insecure balding dudes annoy these guys enough, they are very interested in perfecting their technique for AGA. IGF-1 is only the beginning of a perfected treatment using their vehicle. What I can tell you is that it is essentially working on the same chemical basis for histogen and PRP, except in a more controlled and direct manner. The mor epeople learn about hair loss, the more we know that growth factors like IGF-1 (and others) are the chemical mitigators of hair growth and loss. They are controlled by the androgen, ant, and b catenin pathways among others, and in addition to the observations that follicept has made in rat models that mimic human balding skin, there is ever mounting evidence that IGF-1 is a very important mediating factor in the follicle. Ignore any articles that have to do with serum levels of IGF-1 (swooping loves those), as they do not indicate a causal relationship with hair growth. Because of non-disclosure, I cannot tell you everything about it or how/why their method has developed, but like you said, I'm a smart guy who is very objective and don't get excited about things that I don't understand. Growth factors have continually been proven to influence hair loss, and if I was dr. Hsu I would be pursuing this avenue as well. The things that they noticed have great promise. Unlike other people on here I don't have the time to be posting on here continuously, nor do I care to. Swooping is a waste of time, if your knowledge base on IGF-1 depends on the things he posts then you are being misinformed. all he does is link articles that he does not fully understand.

All we can do is wait and see if Devon notices positive results, and if he does, I can assure you that they will run trials which are very professionally done and objective. They are not indian charlatans who want to make a quick buck. they are a legitimate startup that wants to address other more devastating diseases, and are excited and passionate about the potential to use it for hair- something they stumbled on (kind of like rogaine or propecia), These guys are not a huge pharma, and this is is how great discovery in science often works- small groups making big discoveries. If this pans out, they will not need this forum to market this to bigger players and get it out to the world.

As far as my own objectivity, I cannot guarantee this will work, but I have high hopes and am almost 100 percent sure that it will do SOMETHING. IGF-1s effects on hair follicles have been observed way too many times for it to not do anything. I would similarly not be incredibly surprised if it doesn't work perfectly, or wasn't much better than rogaine. But it could be much better too. Human trials will be crucial, and I think there are issues with cycling, dosing etc that will need to be ironed out before we have a perfect product. What I can say is everyone chill the **** out and again, let the pros do their work. I've been talking to Dr. hsu about more detailed aspects of hair loss pathways, and basically they want to try the IGF-1 approach before getting more complicated, as it may be the most simple and effective current solution. If it works, they won't stop there to perfect a treatment.



In other news, still waiting for TLR to get some PGD2 blockers and maybe CB on the market, sucks that its been so slow, but i am in touch and will let you guys know when something comes to fruition. As we have all seen, getting these chemicals can be a difficult task. I've been using adenosine (shiseido's adenogen) , and pretty sure its having a positive impact on my hair, so for those of you who can't use rogaine, you might look into it. adenosine has also been shown to promote IGF-1 and other hair growth factors.

awesome post SD. do you recommend taking adenogen, or waiting until follicept results come out first?!?!????? please let me know bro

[joachim]

great post, sdsurfin!
good to know that you're in closer contact with the follicept team. i truely believe that dr. hsu has the skills to make some great hair promoting ****tail. if IGF1 is not enough dr. hsu could add other stuff to the mix like you mentioned.
who cares about histogen anymore? they are dead anyway. however, we should, if further ingredients should be added to the mix, see how we can find out more about histogen's ingredients. i believe that the follicept vehicle allows for much lower doses, thus much lower side effects, maybe even zero side effects, compared to the injections.

i think follicept could change the hair loss game once and for all. now it's only a matter of finding the right ingredients.

[stayhopeful]

I pray for a Devon update tomorrow. I keep thinking about how life as we know it could change instantly overnight. No more depression, no more inferiority and hating to look in the mirror. A new life where you can feel like a normal person, not some premature balding kid

[Arashi]

and in the case of Dr. Nigam you were quite correct

You forget Yoram, Gho, that colombian company and that Chloro dude. I was 'quite correct' there too, wasn't I ? In fact, when was I ever wrong ? Really, tell me. Doesn't mean I can't be wrong. I can be wrong as anybody. But I've been more often right than all of those hypers here that jump onto any new 'cure' that's being presented here on this forum, 3 times a year. Yet it's always the same "Arashi, you were right before but THIS time it's different, THIS time you're wrong"...

IGF-1s effects on hair follicles have been observed way too many times for it to not do anything.

Swooping and I asked you to post 1 study. Just one. You don't have it. All you have is 100% speculation based on your own hopes.

Because of non-disclosure, I cannot tell you everything about it

LOL. I laughed out loud. Sdsurfin knows it all true, he's just under non-disclosure

I'm a smart guy who is very objective

Who else keeps calling himself smart on this forum... You're really starting to look like that guy now.

I once thought highly of you, but you've clearly lost it. And as far as objective: that means being interested in FACTS, you're clearly not. Or do show me that IGF-1 study that shows a tremendous increase in HF count please and I'll shut up. Yeah, I thought so ... Oh and BTW I have studies that show it doesn't work. Would love to show you man, but you know, I'm under non-disclosure Hahaha.

Sdsurfin, seriously, what happened to you, man ...