OC info+ use RU at your own risk

[sdsurfin]

Swooping you suck. If kythera purchased it they def had reason to do so. Acre lion did not rest anyone's hair, and these are not meant to cause huge re growth, but to maintain what you have. Not many people, half if them women would even think about tying their asthma trial drug to the state if their hair. Plus actelion never said that they didn't notice anything hair related. Cotsarellis and kythera have been working to find a drug that works for years now, they are not idiots. Why would they invest money into something they would not think would work? They have proven in vitro that setipip rant allows hair to keep growing. That's enough for me. I do to need something better than fin. I new something that is as good and doesn't kill my nuts. Many people feel the same . Stop hating, we need to try this at least and the only way to get the price down is to have support.

I agree about setipip rant being the mos available to kythera, but they also said they tried many possibilities and this one worked.

[KO1]

TM is definitely interesting

[Swooping]

Setipiprant had previously been studied as a potential allergic inflammation treatment and had undergone eight clinical trials, including a Phase III study in seasonal allergic rhinitis patients and a Phase II proof of concept study in asthma patients, resulting in a safety database of more than 1,000 patients. Actelion suspended the development of setipiprant due to a lack of efficacy seen in the above-mentioned clinical trials for inflammatory disorders.

That's hilarious. I didn't even know that it was licensed out. Good move by Actelion, they obviously wanted to get rid of it after the fails. Also, If it would have a significant impact on hair they would have noticed that in the clinical trials (8 of them were run in 1000+ patients) and would never have licensed this treatment out imo. After all the safety was pretty much established. Kythera is drunk I guess. I'll eat my shoe if this will be proven to be more effective than finasteride. But we'll see.

[unbalding]

I think honestly the best option is to follow researchers' lead and use what they think works, which is setipiprant. Otherwise OC seems to be a good candidate, as we know it can be made, sold, and used topically with success, though anecdotal. I do not need photo proof to buy it at a reasonable price. The science is there, the reports of it working are enough, and I have had enough of a change in shedding and itch with zyrtec alone that Im pretty positive this will work. If it doesn't then I simply won't buy any more. The health risks are basically nil. I don't know anything about TM, or if it targets the exact receptor that cots has implicated and linked to treatment with setipiprant.

People are overlooking the obvious reason that Kythera went with setipiprant. It was the most available option, that is, they were able to buy the rights to it. I think they would have preferred OC or TM if they could have acquired the rights to either one.

TM does target the same CRTH2 receptor as setipiprant and OC, only it is more selective and more effective. It completely blocks PGD2 from the receptor without affecting other receptors. The only concern, as Gerhard pointed out, is that we don't know the effects of completely blocking PGD2. Although being more selective should make it safer to the extent that OC and setipiprant target other receptors. Other than that, TM is soluble in water. High concentrations of OC are only soluble in DMSO. TM only needs to be applied once a day at the most, and perhaps less.

[sdsurfin]

Definitely a low blow I didn't see coming. However some in that thread experienced great results from adding OC as well so I'm hesitant to think it's total bullhockey.

No i dont think its bull at all. the science is there, and cetirizine, which is much less selective, definitely at least gets rid of the inflammation on my head.

I do think that you probably need a greater dose than 1% a day. The asthma studies use like 400mg a day, so you dprob need to get that amount into your scalp. I really think its best to press these guys on the oral setipiprant too, because we know the doses for asthma, it has sceintific backing from cotsarellis, and it really cant hurt to try if we can get a fair price. if a thousand guys email this dude guaranteed he starts making it.

[unbalding]

Is entirely blocking PGD2 as TM30089 does healthy and capable of long term usage? I'd think that a total suppression could lead to negative side effects. I figured the usage of OC or setipriprant's ultimate goal was to lower these PGD2 levels in bald and balding men back down to normal scalp levels.

That's a great point. I wouldn't want to use it long term, but for initial regrowth it should be superior to OC. Once you've made some gains you can drop down to OC, and should be able to maintain.

[Gerhard]

Hmm that discouraging. Still worth a try I think, although I think the concentrations have to be much higher. I think the ideal is to get setipiprant at like a 250 mg oral dose daily.

Definitely a low blow I didn't see coming. However some in that thread experienced great results from adding OC as well so I'm hesitant to think it's total bullhockey.

[sdsurfin]

I don't mean to be a downer, but King of Chimps has also claimed many other things have completely stopped his hair loss over the years, including Eucapil and plain alcohol. I'm not sure he's he most reliable source, honestly.

Hmm that discouraging. Still worth a try I think, although I think the concentrations have to be much higher. I think the ideal is to get setipiprant at like a 250 mg oral dose daily.

[Gerhard]

I don't mean to be a downer, but King of Chimps has also claimed many other things have completely stopped his hair loss over the years, including Eucapil and plain alcohol. I'm not sure he's he most reliable source, honestly.

Well fuark. Guess I'm sticking with the bs that is propecia and tagging on some OC on the side.

[FeelsBad]

I don't mean to be a downer, but King of Chimps has also claimed many other things have completely stopped his hair loss over the years, including Eucapil and plain alcohol. I'm not sure he's he most reliable source, honestly.

[KO1]

I highly doubt cell based treatments are coming. This has been a failure for decade and half now.

[Gerhard]

Gerhard- These drugs do not reduce PGD2 levels. they block PGD2 from latching on to a very specific receptor that controls inflammation in hair. apically you still have the same amount of PGD2 floating around and interacting with other receptors that have nothing to do with hair. Im not sure what the long term effects of blocking this specific receptor are, but if Kythera and UPenn are confident in its safety, and they are in phase3 for asthma on these drugs, then the risks cannot be too high. I just want to be able to use this for the 5 years or so until we have a cell based treatment. In any case this is not going to slighter your sex organs or your brain, the most it could possibly do is be worse for your hair in the long run, but i highly doubt that considering the interest that kythera has in the drug, and I'm losing my hair anyway, so ill take that gamble.

Thanks for clearing up that misunderstanding on my end. I hope you're right about the risks being low. Either way, I find their risks of side effects to be far more tolerable in theory than those of continued DHT blocking. Do you really think we'll have a cell based treatment by 2020? Honestly, the naysayers make a good point by stating that this has been "on the horizon" for decades. But either way, as a maintenance option I'd definitely like to use OC or Seti due to their lack of sexual sides and pray that OC works as well for me as it has for kingofchips on hairloss help. Sounds like a godsend when he talks about it and I know he's not pushing bullshit due to others who've verified his claims and now with Cotsarelis backing his results with the pgd2 blocker studies. I'd be willing to take the risk too. Like you said, it's worth the gamble. Hell, half the time I can't tell if I'm more stressed from hairloss or the possibility of spontaneous ED.

If I did get on the OC train could I theoretically taper off fin or would you recommend I stick with it?

[sdsurfin]

I like what you're trying to do here, sd. I've been thinking the same thing myself. We need more people to commit to trying a PGD2 blocker along with a PGF2a analogue. The theory is sound, and it's worth giving it a long trial. I think we should focus on TM30089 rather than OC though. It is more potent, completely inhibiting PGD2. It is also more soluble, and it should last longer between applications.

I bet if everyone on this forum starts taking TM and bimatoprost 1%, and sticks with it, we will see a lot more success stories in six months.

I think honestly the best option is to follow researchers' lead and use what they think works, which is setipiprant. Otherwise OC seems to be a good candidate, as we know it can be made, sold, and used topically with success, though anecdotal. I do not need photo proof to buy it at a reasonable price. The science is there, the reports of it working are enough, and I have had enough of a change in shedding and itch with zyrtec alone that Im pretty positive this will work. If it doesn't then I simply won't buy any more. The health risks are basically nil. I don't know anything about TM, or if it targets the exact receptor that cots has implicated and linked to treatment with setipiprant.

Gerhard- These drugs do not reduce PGD2 levels. they block PGD2 from latching on to a very specific receptor that controls inflammation in hair. apically you still have the same amount of PGD2 floating around and interacting with other receptors that have nothing to do with hair. Im not sure what the long term effects of blocking this specific receptor are, but if Kythera and UPenn are confident in its safety, and they are in phase3 for asthma on these drugs, then the risks cannot be too high. I just want to be able to use this for the 5 years or so until we have a cell based treatment. In any case this is not going to slighter your sex organs or your brain, the most it could possibly do is be worse for your hair in the long run, but i highly doubt that considering the interest that kythera has in the drug, and I'm losing my hair anyway, so ill take that gamble.

[Hairismylife]

That's the thing though. No one is willing to do so which is why a lot of what we have is pretty much anecdotal. Some individuals on hairlosshelp have gone out of their way to test it and say that it has held up their hairloss or at least been a great asset for them. King of Chimps, the guy who is the individual quoted in sd's original post says that is his primary and only form of hair loss prevention and that it has worked flawlessly. He also states in the thread that it's due to people's hesitations that things like OC are not more widely used. It does make sense though. People only really started jumping on RU after hellouser and irishpride posted some pretty stellar results.

I'm probably just being a little optimistic here though. I just want something that'll tide be over 'til a more effective treatment comes and doesn't make me worry as much as fin does.

True. I am the one who jump onto RU after reading Hell's thread.

[Gerhard]

If someone can PROVE that OC works to completely halt hair loss with photos of progress etc. and it's done well in terms of application, documentation etc then it will be a big success. I think for the guys who already have a regimen with fin etc, they are hesitant to drop what they have and go for an unproven formula. No one wants to lose ground.

If someone can prove this will work, then plenty of others will do the same. I will flush the fin tomorrow if someone can prove it to us.

That's the thing though. No one is willing to do so which is why a lot of what we have is pretty much anecdotal. Some individuals on hairlosshelp have gone out of their way to test it and say that it has held up their hairloss or at least been a great asset for them. King of Chimps, the guy who is the individual quoted in sd's original post says that is his primary and only form of hair loss prevention and that it has worked flawlessly. He also states in the thread that it's due to people's hesitations that things like OC are not more widely used. It does make sense though. People only really started jumping on RU after hellouser and irishpride posted some pretty stellar results.

I'm probably just being a little optimistic here though. I just want something that'll tide be over 'til a more effective treatment comes and doesn't make me worry as much as fin does.