Combatting RU58841 side effects

[TubZy]

What about possible glutathione precursors like NAC and R-ALA. Intravenous NAC is used to hospitals to clear patients from acetaminophen toxicity. Glutathione is your body's natural detoxification methods as well as anti oxidant. I take NAC daily for liver and kidney health.

[RU58841]

Just wanted to update. After a month at 900mg/day of Nature's Way Standardized St. John's Wort I moved up to about 3 weeks at 1500-1800mg/day, then for about 10 days, 2100/mg-2400mg/day. Side effects, unfortunately, never changed at all. I'm not sure what Boldy's secret ingredient was, but maybe he can give some more insight.

[Seuxin]

But why not using the RU prodrug like RUM ? No side effect with these !

[RU58841]

Hey Boldy, would you give us an update on your situation? I used 900mg/day of St. John's Wort for a month with no effect, so now I'm up to about 1500-1800mg/day.

Can you tell us what brand of it you're using? And do you remember how long you were taking it before you noticed an improvement?

Do you think the other details (transresveratrol, coconut oil, vehicle) play a big role in reducing the sexual side effects?

[burtandernie]

RU is like the perfect AA really. Its ridiculously powerful compared to propecia its just the safety and supplies. Those are hard issues to get around and do you really want some crazy strong AA going systemic even if in theory its just androgen antagonist

[RU58841]

Boldy, thanks for pointing out the St. John's Wort. I'm trying it now and will report back in some time.

Regarding some of the paranoid questions asked here...

• St. John's Wort reduces estrogen, but also as a "side effect" compels the body to process many drugs and get them out of the system more quickly, thereby making them less effective. That's exactly the kind of side effect we want, assuming RU is actually one of the drugs that functions that way (via the liver, I guess? Not sure here.). If you rely on some other more important medications, then no, you probably shouldn't use St. John's Wort.

• Clinical studies have administered up to 1800mg/day of St. John's Wort. When you consider that independent studies found that efficacy between brand of St. John's Wort varied greatly, Boldy's dose of ~2600mg/day is probably normal.

• A long-term study of one year usage (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19299116) of 440 people taking 500mg/day had only a few instances (30) of minor side effects which were "possibly or probably" related to the Wort. No study so far has found that long-term usage coincides with more frequent or more severe side effects than short-term usage.

• On that note of good brands vs. bad brands, the best/most effective ones, due to their amount of hypericin and hyperforin, were found to be these:
  1. Nature’s Way Standardized Extract
  2. Natrol Mood Support

• More stuff here: https://www.cspinet.org/nah/9_00/stjohnswort.html

• Regarding why RU was discontinued, there's a long thread on some other forum talking about this which showed a (purported) report by the company that concluded that even short-term usage of RU can cause sudden and irreversible brain damage.
  
  Just kidding!
  
  Actually, what it said was that they considered RU to be a great alternative to Finasteride, but interestingly it called the hair loss market and its profit potential "mediocre." Somebody chimed in -- and I have no idea if these statistics are accurate -- and said that Finasteride outsells Rogaine/Minoxidil 10 to 1 despite its risk for side effects which, as you know, scare a lot of people away from even trying it. Not to mention Rogaine is available over the counter, Finasteride requires a prescription, AND it's a lot more expensive.
  
  So one conclusion from that is that a LOT more people would rather take a pill than put up with a greasy topical that makes their hair look bad and needs to be applied every day, only to hopefully retain some of their hair and barely regain any, if any at all. Since RU is another topical, if this is true, that may be the end of the mystery.

[burtandernie]

I think the most obvious answers to why RU never finished is it goes systemic, its expensive, and its unstable over the long shelf life it needs to have. Probably something along those lines or it just was not enough improvement or large enough profit margins to be worth pursuing. All of those are legit reasons it could get scrapped, and it does have a phase 2 human trial they finished so its not all theory.
It might be perfectly safe but no one knows. A lot of people are using RU simply because there are few viable options if fin doesnt work.

[robodoc]

I just want to know why anyone would use a drug without knowing all about it?? I tried it, I risked it for a few months but my conscience told me this drug could be dangersous to my health....when a drug company stops a study there must be a reason. Why can't we find out why RU was discontinued?

You may not have any siede effects immediately. You do not know long term. Beyond that has RU stopped your hair loss? I don't hear reports of it being successful......anyone feel free to correct me.

A last thought I would say within 5 years, they will be growing hair follicles, your hair follicles in a petri dish. You will have all the hair you can buy.

[diffuseloser]

Still not getting any sides off RU myself. Been on it almost a full year now. Helps to keep in shape. Get out for good run when you can there's nothing that will help improve your physical and mental health as much. Laying around obsessing about your hair will only make things worse. So start feeling good about yourself and that's half the battle. You won't be long shifting those nips if you can stick to a good routine.

[brocktherock]

I thought it was mainly mental too since I was just getting it on the right side which seemed odd. One way to test it though is to look at yourself via a different angle. In your bathroom, lean your hands or forearms on the sink/counter-top and try to keep the rest of your body relatively upright while looking in the mirror. My left "pec" and right are now different. The left one looks smaller and is more round whereas the right one very clearly sags more, protrudes out to the side toward the armpit and generally looks more like a breast. It's relatively subtle and standing straight up I don't think anyone would really notice but it's definitely not placebo if I can see it. Then again, I've been on RU since January.

You can obsess about something and make yourself self conscious. Do you remember when you first thought you were losing your hair and you felt everyone could tell right away? I'd give anything to have that hair now. My pecks have always had a little fat but if you do some decline bench you'll fix it in no time, most guys have what you're talking about.

[Trouse5858]

I think people getting gyno is a placebo effect too. For me the intense testicle pain and brain fog from fin happened after a couple of days, and were very real, and I could very easily make them go away by stopping. The gyno though can't just appear like that, it's just not possible, and I have had a small lump under my nipple at various times in my life before i had hairloss or took anything. It's pretty normal in a lot of men, and fluctuating anxiety and hormone levels will make it go away or come back without taking any meds. I wouldn't worry about suddenly developing breasts.

I thought it was mainly mental too since I was just getting it on the right side which seemed odd. One way to test it though is to look at yourself via a different angle. In your bathroom, lean your hands or forearms on the sink/counter-top and try to keep the rest of your body relatively upright while looking in the mirror. My left "pec" and right are now different. The left one looks smaller and is more round whereas the right one very clearly sags more, protrudes out to the side toward the armpit and generally looks more like a breast. It's relatively subtle and standing straight up I don't think anyone would really notice but it's definitely not placebo if I can see it. Then again, I've been on RU since January.

[burtandernie]

We never know what is fact or fiction but it makes me a little nervous when people report heart issues or things like brain fog on RU. I mean you wouldnt expect something like RU to do that even if it went systemic to some amount

[diffuse]

So I've been taking RU for the past few days, hoping that it wouldn't give me side effects whereas fin did. I had read quite a lot of posts claiming that RU did go systematic but because of its shorter half life, sides would be less of an problem as they would last less longer than fin. I was hoping though that RU wouldn't go systematic and thus wouldn't give me sides. Yeah, I had pretty high hopes.

I have only taken RU for a couple of days now but gyno already starts to develop. I'm also feeling some other things since I started RU but I'm willing to discard every side effect that only has the slightest chance to be caused by a paranoid mind. Gyno, however, is one of the few sides that I absolutely can't imagine: I can't grow tits by using my mind.


This brings me to the following question: because of RU's MoA (binding locally to receptors in the scalp so DHT won't, if I understand this correctly) will it matter a lot how much DHT there will be in my body as a whole? I have a very low level of knowledge regarding this concept, but I was thinking something along the lines of boosting my DHT levels significantly as it wouldn't matter for hair loss anyway as long as I would be using RU?

Or maybe there's another way to combat RU sides? Surely because of this MoA compared to the MoA of fin/dut there are going to be some ways to reduce sides? I would lower the dose, but I'm already on a pretty low dose (concentration of 2,5% , 50mg/2ml). If I can't even take RU for MPB, I practically ran out of AA's to try and my battle against hair loss will become a pretty dark one.

There is some great knowledge in this subforum and I was wondering if anybody had an idea of what to do... Any comments/insights would be greatly aprecciated!

Illusion have you managed to make the sides go away? Are you using st jhons wort? I've been using it for two month with no sides and i'M having erection problems now.. If I miss an application it goes away.

Thanks

[sdsurfin]

I'm not seeing any gyno, just feeling a peanut sized lump under my right nipple whereas it used to be flat. Also I get some weird feelings in my right nipple sometimes, but as I said before, I'm willing to discard any feelings (because like you said, the placebo-effect can be strong) but things that are actually visible or things I'm able to feel from the outside (the lump), are a different story imo. You say that gyno can't develop in two days but I take it you're talking about full-blown gyno. I agree that's rather unlikely to happen but you can spot gyno before that stage, as you don't suddenly wake up with huge bitch-tits.

But I agree with the things you said about the placebo effect of drugs. Again, that's why I stated in my first post that I'm willing to discard pretty much everything except for visible things or things I can feel from the outside.

I think people getting gyno is a placebo effect too. For me the intense testicle pain and brain fog from fin happened after a couple of days, and were very real, and I could very easily make them go away by stopping. The gyno though can't just appear like that, it's just not possible, and I have had a small lump under my nipple at various times in my life before i had hairloss or took anything. It's pretty normal in a lot of men, and fluctuating anxiety and hormone levels will make it go away or come back without taking any meds. I wouldn't worry about suddenly developing breasts.

[TubZy]

Did Boldy ever post his log yet?