Dkk1 Stimulate Hair Follicles For Hair Growth When They Appear Dead

[Thinning87]

To continue on this topic;

Btw about DKK1, and WNT pathway this is pretty interesting. Instead of inhibiting DKK1 these guys want to use a agent that directly activates the WNT pathway instead of inhibiting DKK1 and repressing WNT. That is what the original thing was; http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_...013/12/millar/. Manipulation of the Wnt/β-catenin pathway through DKK1, but as said they want to induce the WNT pathway directly here and a clinical trial has started up;

https://www.anzctr.org.au/Trial/Regi...aspx?id=364645

Really wonder how they got permission to do that in terms of cancer risks etc..? Pretty crazy lol. Perhaps someone can shoot them a e-mail.

Some more info;




http://www.samumed.com/

I haven't read it but it's obvious that if they haven't succeeded yet they cannot succeed ever. You really hope they can do this?? Hahaha keep hoping you fool

[Swooping]

To continue on this topic;

Btw about DKK1, and WNT pathway this is pretty interesting. Instead of inhibiting DKK1 these guys want to use a agent that directly activates the WNT pathway instead of inhibiting DKK1 and repressing WNT. That is what the original thing was; http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_...013/12/millar/. Manipulation of the Wnt/β-catenin pathway through DKK1, but as said they want to induce the WNT pathway directly here and a clinical trial has started up;

https://www.anzctr.org.au/Trial/Regi...aspx?id=364645

Really wonder how they got permission to do that in terms of cancer risks etc..? Pretty crazy lol. Perhaps someone can shoot them a e-mail.

Some more info;

Public title A Single-Center, Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo Controlled Study of the Safety, Tolerability and Pharmacokinetics of Various Concentrations of Topical SM04554 Solution in Male Subjects with Androgenetic Alopecia.

The study drug is a topical SM04554 solution. SM04554 is a small molecule that may activate the wnt pathway. The dosage amounts are: 0.05%; 0.15%; and 0.45%. Administration of the study drug will be once daily for 14 days at the study clinic; study drug is applied topically to the scalp. There are three cohorts of 10 participants. Cohort 1 will be administered the 0.05% solution, Cohort 2 will be administered the 0.15% solution and Cohort 3 will be administered the 0.45% solution. Participants will complete a series of tests prior to the start of the study. During the study the participants’ scalp will be assessed by the study doctor on a daily basis and prior to administration of the study drug. Hair growth assessments will also be completed by the study doctor and the participant 1 day following the completion of the treatment and 14 days following completion of the treatment.

http://www.samumed.com/

Progenitor stem cells are the repair system of the body, replenishing various types of tissues as needed. One of the primary control pathways for these cells is the Wnt signaling pathway, which can be activated or inhibited to manage the extent and type of tissue they turn into. For example, progenitor stem cells will turn into bone or cartilage, based on whether the Wnt pathway in the vicinity of the bone or joints is activated or inhibited, respectively.

Using unique assays and screens, Samumed (formerly known as Wintherix & Epitherix) has identified a number of novel drug compounds to selectively activate or inhibit the Wnt pathway toward regenerative medicine and treatment of oncology and degenerative diseases. Our traditional small molecule drug development approach, combined with our unique ability to control the fate of latent human progenitor stem cells has enabled us to develop a series of breakthrough potential new treatments with high potency and excellent safety profiles.

[Thinning87]

Well i certainly went full retard to discuss things with a complete idiot LOL. Now stop increasing those 800 useless posts of you mate. So other people can discuss freely on this subject.

That's what we were doing before you spammed the thread with a comment about a video you haven't even watched: "I haven't seen the video, but it can't be done and the fact that it hasn't been done yet proves it".

[Swooping]

You see you are the one who is desperate, you are posting pictures of your hair on an online forum just to prove some anonymous stranger wrong. Very insecure of you. It's not all about hair, you must have other things too

Well i certainly went full retard to discuss things with a complete idiot LOL. Now stop increasing those 800 useless posts of you mate. So other people can discuss freely on this subject.

[Thinning87]

You see you are the one who is desperate, you are posting pictures of your hair on an online forum just to prove some anonymous stranger wrong. Very insecure of you. It's not all about hair, you must have other things too

[Swooping]

Oh now that you are saying that you really hurt my feelings... By the way I don't look like anything because I'm talking thorough a forum. Idiot. By the way out up a picture of yourself and your hair let's see if you really do look good.

I am not here to hurt your feelings or whatever you started me calling a idiot not the other way around. I'll always give a explanation of why i think or believe things as the way they are. And with follica if you think it through i just gave you a hint you'll understand why they still did not ever induce hair follicle neogenesis by wounding in HUMANS. Furthermore if you still disagree that's fine, thats your choice but don't start calling me a idiot.

I am not going to proof myself against you, i can assure you i'm not a desperate old man. I fought AGA for quite some time, to the point where i sometimes even went as a guineai pig lol and always trying to help others. Here are my pics hair pics the first one was already when i already used some RU and minox so it was a quite a bit worse (less density and thickening). I'm approaching NW1.5 now. My goal is NW1 though just because i got a bit greedy now lol;

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpost.php?p=170474&postcount=216

Anyways back on topic i guess :P!

[lilpauly]

I think dkk is better then oc , at least on paper ,

[nameless]

I posted this on ***;

Regarding doxycyclone: Remember that when finasteride came to market they first tried many other drugs like it before they brought finasteride to market. Those other drugs are called precursors and they were abandoned for various reasons. Some won't reach the target area, some metabolize too quickly, some are not safe for the long term, etc, etc, etc.

My point is that just because doxycyclone will negate DKK1 in a test tube does not necessarily mean it will do it in a human, much less at a specific target area of the skin of the scalp. It's very complicated getting a drug to a specific spot in the right dose and with the right activity to do the job. So just because doxycyclone will inhibit DKK1 in a test tube does not mean you can get it to the right location and that it will be strong enough once it gets to that location to do the job.

[Thinning87]

I never said it wasn't possible in the future. What are you smoking, stop the drugs mate. I said that DKK-1 without wounding doesn't work given the fact that it has been tried topically and clinical trials are ongoing if it was the key they would see hair growth as a side effect.

Furthermore i think you need to watch the presentation another time LOL. I only needed to watch the summary of him. You don't even know what the heck he is trying to achieve and how incredibly hard that is. It's not only wounding and DKK-1 you little dumbass. Check what he says about FGF9 and the difference between mice and humans. Then I'll give you another hint;

6) And finally I brought up fgf9 and its potentials. He believes fgf9 is still a very new discovery with many years of preclinical research ahead of it, when I asked for an estimated date he said at least 10 years. He then went on to mention that just to go from Rogaine liquid to Rogaine foam it took the company over 8 years of studies and data collection before they were allowed to sell it and Minoxidil has been on the market for many years. Now imagine if we are trying to bring out a completely new agent. The timeframes are quite long indeed.

Haha, you are really that stupid as you look. And your last thing about me being a old man, i think you would be surprised how i look, how my hair has progressed from nw4 with temporal regrowth to nw1.5 almost now and how many people i try to help. God you are a sad individual

Oh now that you are saying that you really hurt my feelings... By the way I don't look like anything because I'm talking thorough a forum. Idiot. By the way out up a picture of yourself and your hair let's see if you really do look good.

[Swooping]

The point from your earlier message was "from the presentation we can conclude the different cell conditions in mice and humans make it impossible to apply this theory to humans". It's misleading because Cotsarelis himself points out a way around this problem (wounding).

No reply on "they always say five years away" point because it's the argument a donkey at best could come up with.

If you believe dkk1 and wounding together cannot induce de novo follicle formation you should present evidence to show this. You can't simply say "it hasn't been done yet so it's obviously not possible" because the point here is that this is a technique they are trying. We don't know yet if it'll work or not, but just because we don't know it doesn't mean it cannot work.

The official story is that Follica is trying this stuff. Desmond is not the oracle and if he's not optimistic about something it doesn't mean anything. You inferring that this is failure because it hasn't been done yet proves that you're the desperate one.

You're just an old bald dude who is desperate about his situation and for that reason comes on a baldness forum to spread negativity to younger sufferers without really knowing what the subject is. It's the psychology of the loser who wants others to be in the same situation as him in order to feel less pain. To your own admission, you haven't even viewed the full video and here you are already telling us what Cotsarelis, a man more intelligent than you, can or cannot do in his lab.

Go away loser

I never said it wasn't possible in the future. What are you smoking, stop the drugs mate. I said that DKK-1 without wounding doesn't work given the fact that it has been tried topically and clinical trials are ongoing if it was the key they would see hair growth as a side effect.

Furthermore i think you need to watch the presentation another time LOL. I only needed to watch the summary of him. You don't even know what the heck he is trying to achieve and how incredibly hard that is. It's not only wounding and DKK-1 you little dumbass. Check what he says about FGF9 and the difference between mice and humans. Then I'll give you another hint;

6) And finally I brought up fgf9 and its potentials. He believes fgf9 is still a very new discovery with many years of preclinical research ahead of it, when I asked for an estimated date he said at least 10 years. He then went on to mention that just to go from Rogaine liquid to Rogaine foam it took the company over 8 years of studies and data collection before they were allowed to sell it and Minoxidil has been on the market for many years. Now imagine if we are trying to bring out a completely new agent. The timeframes are quite long indeed.

Haha, you are really that stupid as you look. And your last thing about me being a old man, i think you would be surprised how i look, how my hair has progressed from nw4 with temporal regrowth to nw1.5 almost now and how many people i try to help. God you are a sad individual

[Thinning87]

Stay hoping mate!! It's easy to do if you know shit all about hairloss and the complications that come with it. Keep believing those press releases constantly back from the 80's where a cure is released every 5 years. Naive kid . And what did i exactly say about the presentation that is misleading? That i KNOW that they did not induce de novo hair follicle neogenesis in humans? Its the truth mate, TILL he proves otherwise. You must be stupid to believe that, but you can't view things objectively but are hopeful from your own desperate emotions.

DKK1 application and wounding will induce de novo in humans YEAH RIGHT LOL. Go ask that question to aaron gardner what he thinks of that .

Secondly the thing's Cotsarelis said against Desmond in the interview were laughable and just shows where he stands. Even desmond who is always extremely positive admitted somewhat, that he was very dissapointed by them I'll stop this discussion though, wasted enough time on you.

The point from your earlier message was "from the presentation we can conclude the different cell conditions in mice and humans make it impossible to apply this theory to humans". It's misleading because Cotsarelis himself points out a way around this problem (wounding).

No reply on "they always say five years away" point because it's the argument a donkey at best could come up with.

If you believe dkk1 and wounding together cannot induce de novo follicle formation you should present evidence to show this. You can't simply say "it hasn't been done yet so it's obviously not possible" because the point here is that this is a technique they are trying. We don't know yet if it'll work or not, but just because we don't know it doesn't mean it cannot work.

The official story is that Follica is trying this stuff. Desmond is not the oracle and if he's not optimistic about something it doesn't mean anything. You inferring that this is failure because it hasn't been done yet proves that you're the desperate one.

You're just an old bald dude who is desperate about his situation and for that reason comes on a baldness forum to spread negativity to younger sufferers without really knowing what the subject is. It's the psychology of the loser who wants others to be in the same situation as him in order to feel less pain. To your own admission, you haven't even viewed the full video and here you are already telling us what Cotsarelis, a man more intelligent than you, can or cannot do in his lab.

Go away loser

[nameless]

Stay hoping mate!! It's easy to do if you know shit all about hairloss and the complications that come with it. Keep believing those press releases constantly back from the 80's where a cure is released every 5 years. Naive kid . And what did i exactly say about the presentation that is misleading? That i KNOW that they did not induce de novo hair follicle neogenesis in humans? Its the truth mate, TILL he proves otherwise. You must be stupid to believe that, but you can't view things objectively but are hopeful from your own desperate emotions.

DKK1 application and wounding will induce de novo in humans YEAH RIGHT LOL. Go ask that question to aaron gardner what he thinks of that .

Secondly the thing's Cotsarelis said against Desmond in the interview were laughable and just shows where he stands. Even desmond who is always extremely positive admitted somewhat, that he was very dissapointed by them I'll stop this discussion though, wasted enough time on you.

I just did put the question to Dr. Gardner. The way I put it to Gardner is "What if inhibition of DKK1 is only half of the equation and the other half of the equation is to add growth factors?"

Keep in mind that in all hair loss treatments we have seen so far the best results come when we work on both sides of the equation - negating what causes hair loss, and adding what prompts hair growth. Both. In the case of minoxidil (a hair growth stimulant) it works better when you add propecia, which negates the dht that inhibits hair growth. So when you use minoxidil and propecia you are working on both sides of the equation. If you look at what Cotseralis said about prostaglandins, he said you would negate PGD2 (which inhibits hair growth) and you would increase PGE2 (a hair growth stimulant). So in the prostaglandin model you work both sides of the equation. In other words, perhaps in the growth factor model you also have to work both sides of the equation. You have to add growth factors that stimulate hair growth and you have to negate the one factor that inhibits hair growth - DK11.

Isn't this plausible?

[nameless]

No one cares what you think about hoping or doing. You were saying something about the presentation that is measliding and to your own admission you hadn't even seen the full presentation. No one could care less about what you think is true or not, just don't go around and spread negativity when to your own admission you haven't even seen the full video. So don't tell me what you how or do not hope, no one asked you so no one cares. Idiot

Swooping is a pretty smart guy. I can vouch for that.

But I do think that he's missing an important point.

The thing is that in hair loss treatments we have learnt over and over again that you have to attack both sides of the equation. You have to remove that which inhibits hair growth and you have to increase that which promotes hair growth to get the best results. For example, with minoxodil we have learnt that it's best to add propecia. Minoxidil stimulates hair growth via PGE2 stimulation and the propecia negates androgen that inhibits hair growth. So when you take minoxidil and propecia you are working on both sides of the equation. You are negating androgen and you are increasing PGE2. When you look at Cotseralis's prostaglanding model for hair growth you also fix both sides of the equation because Cots said to negate PGD2 and to increase PGE2. Both. You have to work both sides of the equation.

When it comes to growth factors you might have to do the same thing - increase the growth factors that prompt hair growth AND negate the factor that inhibits hair growth - DKK1. I have a hunch that negating sufficient DKK1 plus adding the correct growth factors (the ones found in fat) might be sufficient to regrow hair.

Do you think this is plausible

[Swooping]

No one cares what you think about hoping or doing. You were saying something about the presentation that is measliding and to your own admission you hadn't even seen the full presentation. No one could care less about what you think is true or not, just don't go around and spread negativity when to your own admission you haven't even seen the full video. So don't tell me what you how or do not hope, no one asked you so no one cares. Idiot

Stay hoping mate!! It's easy to do if you know shit all about hairloss and the complications that come with it. Keep believing those press releases constantly back from the 80's where a cure is released every 5 years. Naive kid . And what did i exactly say about the presentation that is misleading? That i KNOW that they did not induce de novo hair follicle neogenesis in humans? Its the truth mate, TILL he proves otherwise. You must be stupid to believe that, but you can't view things objectively but are hopeful from your own desperate emotions.

DKK1 application and wounding will induce de novo in humans YEAH RIGHT LOL. Go ask that question to aaron gardner what he thinks of that .

Secondly the thing's Cotsarelis said against Desmond in the interview were laughable and just shows where he stands. Even desmond who is always extremely positive admitted somewhat, that he was very dissapointed by them I'll stop this discussion though, wasted enough time on you.

[Thinning87]

"All we can do is hope they have been doing preclinical with this and are looking at potential new clinical trials."

"Hope" , yes it is good to have hope. But you don't get far in life with only hoping. I rather take action in my own hands for what you know maybe they won't even have a cure the next 10+ year and that is a very high possibility. I don't want to destroy anything I am just very rational and realistic. I HOPE just as much as you that they will deliver us a cure, I just don't see it coming realistically short term that's all, but we'll see. Time will tell us!

Btw about DKK1, and WNT pathway this is pretty interesting about it. Instead of inhibiting DKK1 these guys want to use a agent that directly activates the WNT pathway instead of inhibiting DKK1 and repressing WNT.

https://www.anzctr.org.au/Trial/Registration/TrialReview.aspx?id=364645

Really wonder how they got permission to do that in terms of cancer risks etc..? Pretty crazy lol

Some more info;





http://www.samumed.com/

No one cares what you think about hoping or doing. You were saying something about the presentation that is measliding and to your own admission you hadn't even seen the full presentation. No one could care less about what you think is true or not, just don't go around and spread negativity when to your own admission you haven't even seen the full video. So don't tell me what you how or do not hope, no one asked you so no one cares. Idiot