adipose-derived stem cell protein extract

[nameless]

So, in that case they should agree to a 'no result - money back' guarantee right ? Ask them about it. If they don't want do to the haircount, you could agree with them that an independent clinic performs the haircount. Would love to hear their reaction to that !

I still have not heard back from the lab or the Swiss clinic about whether or not a sufficient number of ADSCs stay local in the target area after being injected. if they do not then the only sure way to get the correct growth factors and proteins to the follicles is by having AAPE injected. I do believe that the Swiss clinic injects AAPE and if it doesn't then it could probably be persuaded to do so.

[nameless]

Ok its decided now, im doing my second treatment in October, but im doing my second with the swiss clinic, even though the charge almost twice the price it seems like their methods are better ( and in their price everything is included ( 4 star hotel and transportation.
These are the questions i asked.
and i asked them before about money back guarantee and they said that a haircount can be done and if not pleased with the results i can get a second treatment for no cost.
these are the questions i asked now.


Since i had a treatment before, will my chances of results be higher?

Definitely this is true, stem cell treatment locally would be expected to have an aggregate result, meaning that will further increase angiogenicity in the treating area resulting in better blood circulation and subsequent strengthening of the existing hair folicles.

2. What kind of results can i expect? im in very early stages of hairloss, with a receding hairline, all i want is that my hairline stays the same since i have good density overall.

Your case is trully a "case scenario" for using stem cell mesotherapy for hair loss since you are still have a good hairline, therefore stem cells will impart further strengthening and eventually stabilization of your condition.

3. the hairline has recceded over the past 12 months, since these hair follices shouldent be completley dead yet, are there bigger chance since my loss hasent been ongoing for that long?

Your age (still in twenties) is also a very important factor ensuring excellent viability and proliferation of your stem cells along with the fact that you mention above will result in a very good prognosis for your condition.

4. if i get results, how long do they last? im using propecia aswell and have been for 18 months.

You will start seeing results after a period of three months and are expected to last for a minimum of 18 months based on all other hailoss risk factors staying the same. DHT formation inhibition by propecia is not expected to affect stem cell proliferation in your scalp area.

Alias could you please print out the study about AAPE at the beginning of this very thread and give the study to the Swiss clinic and ask them if they can and will do AAPE injections? Please!

[nameless]

Nameless did you give prostemics a call already?

I sent them an email weeks ago but they didn't respond. I don't think they will talk to us.

[nameless]

nameless, I have received the adipose stem cells at ddr heinrich's centre too. In fact it was probably around the same time as Alias123. I did bump into a young chap when I went there. Maybe that was you alias who i commented to in the waiting room about how hot it was?
Anyway, I can say that it does have some effect. I actually asked for two adipose samples to be taken, as that would yield 100cc of fat from which to harvest stem cells. I asked for this because I wanted to ensure effectiveness, and it seems that other references in research etc. took 100cc, rather than 50cc which is the standard procedure from ddr heinrich.
I can say that it hasn't done a huge amount, but this is something which you have to do a couple of times at least to see some real difference.

Thank you also for the support with the adipose derived stem cell extract funding. I think I'll refer to it as ADSCe from this point forward so that it is clear.
I think a top level post within future treatments would be a good idea, so I'll write up a long post and get it on there to really muster some interest.
Hopefully others will get behind it and post to similar forums they are part of.
Whether I can get it onto a proper crowd-funding platform remains to be seen, as they probably have some rules about funding of medical projects, but I can find out.

With any luck this can drive forward some research (and a solution), and hopefully everyone on here can feel they are actually part of a solution, rather than feeling frustrated (as I know I have) at how it feels so completely out of ones control.

Moleular, although I hate to admit it I think that Arishi might have a valid point about injected adipose derived stem cells migrating out of the area where they are injected and diffusing throughout the person's body. I wish it wasn't so but I think he *might* be right. But that doesn't mean that the same problem would arise with injected AAPE. I think that it since a good amount of AAPE is injected at each treatment date if you got the AAPE treatment every 7 - 14 days for the first few months that might be enough to regrow some hair and then perhaps re-inject every 4 - 6 months after that for maintenance.

Now of course I'm not sure about this but from the study at the beginning of this thread I think it's our best chance for effective treatment now. The thing is that we are not going to be able to round up the people to pay for the study you suggested. I would contribute but I can't pay for the study by myself. I don't have that kind of money. So I think that the smart thing to do is to try to talk the Greece and Swiss clinics to offer the AAPE treatment.

You talk to the Greece and Swiss teams so perhaps you could raise this issue to them and see how they would feel about it offering AAPE injections.

[nameless]

Hello again everyone.
Apologies for my hiatus, I've had some things to sort out.

I have actually in the intervening period had an ADSC procedure (in Austria) - it involves taking fat samples, they separate the stemcells and mix with PRP and then inject into your scalp. I can say that it has stopped the loss and has regrown hair. Results aren't that significant, but you have to get this done a few times before it's really noticeable. I would rather do this than have a hair transplant, as the idea of it doesn't sit well with me.

I recently posted to the crowd-funding forum but didn't follow up, as I had some things to sort out. As my crowd-funding initiative is intended on this topic though, I'll post here.

As some of you may have seen, a while ago I mentioned that I would organise for Fukuoka's research to be replicated, and I was trying to source a lab and put together a sort of 'package' to help people regrow their hair.
I have now sourced a lab in Europe, and would now like to appeal to the community for crowd-funding this venture.
I'm looking to raise approx. 50,000CHF (approx. $55,000).
This will pay for 4 test subjects to have lipo-aspirate (fat) extracted, have their cells cultured under hypoxic conditions and receive a series of injections with a partner clinic.

As some of you may know, this isn't quite the same as an ADSC procedure. ADSC involves actually using your stem cells and then injecting them into your scalp. This - which started this whole topic - is the use of the various growth factors secreted by culturing the stem cells, not using the cells themselves. Here in Europe, you can use the stem cells extracted, but only at the time of extraction. Stem cells can't be cultured and then used in procedures. However, it is perfectly legal to culture stem cells and use the growth factors they secrete in procedures - this is currently used for skin rejuvenation therapies.

The reason for culturing under hypoxic conditions - as Fukuoka noted - is that the stem cells secrete slightly elevated levels and a few more growth factors which are more conducive to growing hair. He also added some vitamins, such as zinc and biotin which we all know are good for hair growth.

So firstly, I would like to see whether people are interested and whether we could raise this money between us.
The first half or so of that money would go towards in vitro testing, and subsequently to application on some test subjects.
If results are satisfactory, then my intention is to put together a 'package' and work with partner clinics to provide a much better route for people to regrow their hair - hopefully without the need for hair transplants, but that isn't to say that it couldnt help these people too.

On that topic, it would probably be a good idea to have a test subject who has had a hair transplant so this could be tested both on the recipient and donor area to see the effects.

Thoughts are welcome, but please don't let it degrade into in-fighting and pseudo-scientific rubbish - we've all got a common goal here.

Molelular it looks like I'm the only one willing to chip in to get your AAPE clinic idea off the ground. Obviously I can not chip enough in to get your project going so we can't get your project going. So it would be best if you talk to the clinic where you are getting your adipose derived stem cell treatment and try to talk them into starting AAPE treatments.

[nameless]

I hate to admit it but for once Arishi might be right about something. A huge amount of adipose derived stem cells might migrate out of the scalp area shortly after implantation. This means that injecting AAPE is a much better way to treat hair loss than adipose derived stem cell injections. So we are right back where we started and we need to find a clinic that will treat us with AAPE. I would think that since the adipose derived stem cells clinics are already working with ADSCs they might also be welling to work with AAPE.

[hgs1989]

I hate to admit it but for once Arishi might be right about something. A huge amount of adipose derived stem cells might migrate out of the scalp area shortly after implantation.

please provide the reference of stem cell migration from the location of injection. if this is true, it might have implications on replicel.

[Alias123]

wait i am abit confused wth all these AAPE comments.. are you saying that the treatments offered in the swiss clinic ( in greece) only works if you do it every 4-7 days? in the begining and then every few months? so it doesnt do anything if you take the treatment twice as i am doing (during the course of 4 months)

[Sogeking]

wait i am abit confused wth all these AAPE comments.. are you saying that the treatments offered in the swiss clinic ( in greece) only works if you do it every 4-7 days? in the begining and then every few months? so it doesnt do anything if you take the treatment twice as i am doing (during the course of 4 months)

Yeah he's saying that adipose derived stem cells like to migrate through out the body, only minor amount would stay at the site of injection.
He is also suggesting that one would do a few treatments in succession and then proceed with a few more sparse treatments (1-2 per year). However I consider that too expensive unless one is rich.

Despite all of that all the treatments you had would still have some effect if the stem cell treatment actually works. Moleular reports that it works for him. What about you, are you seeing any improvement after the treatment in Vienna?

As for the Swiss clinic I'm not sure if they are offering AAPE injections or just adipose derived stem cells.

Basically you and moleluar are the first on this forum testing this treatment, everything else is just conjecture, I mean taking this treatment every few months might not have any result whatsoever.

[Arashi]

wait i am abit confused wth all these AAPE comments.. are you saying that the treatments offered in the swiss clinic ( in greece) only works if you do it every 4-7 days? in the begining and then every few months? so it doesnt do anything if you take the treatment twice as i am doing (during the course of 4 months)

At this point it's just speculation but pretty much all other stem cell studies have failed and/or had very marginable successes, mostly due to stem cells travelling away from injection sites and/or simply differentiating into other tissue. Maybe for hairloss the risk of stem cells migrating away is a bit lower, but who knows ... There's just no real credible clinical data at this point at all.

Did you ask the clinic again for guarantees ? After they've said that " Your case is trully a "case scenario" and that they've never had any client in 15 years without success, they should have no problems giving you a simple guarantee, right ? Cause they make it sound like a failure is extremely unlikely. In finance, anything that's unlikely is cheap so they shouldnt have a problem giving that away.

[Alias123]

the only guarantee i got was not a money back guarantee, but another ( same ) treatment for free in 6 months.

[Arashi]

the only guarantee i got was not a money back guarantee, but another ( same ) treatment for free in 6 months.

Well if the treatment doesn't work, then most probably the next one won't either ... I have a feeling they're selling you a worthless therapy, but there's only 1 way to find out I guess

[nameless]

please provide the reference of stem cell migration from the location of injection. if this is true, it might have implications on replicel.

I can't find an actual study myself but I did contact the heart clinic in The Bahamas that is working with ADSCs and this below in bold type is what they told me:

ADRCs as well as mesenchymal cells (MSCs) from bone marrow,when delivered in the heart as well as other tissues and organs have generally migrated out of the target tissue after about three days though some can be found up to about five weeks. It is important to note that the primary way these cells regenerate and repair is through cell-to-cell signaling (paracrine effect). The cells can and do turn into other cells. That is why they are called adult stem cells. The differentiate into adipose, bone, cartilage etc. The cells “know” what tissue is needed so in the case of the heart they differentiate into heart muscle cells (cardiomyocytes). It is also important to note that while ADRCs have been found to grow new cardiomyocytes they are not enough to build new muscle but they appear to assist in improving pumping function. The most important mechanism for cardiac and other wound repair found with ADRCs is the growth of new blood vessels (angiogenesis). These new bloods vessels support the main arteries and bring more blood and oxygen to the lungs so the person can breathe better per the PRECISE trial (see data on maximum volume of oxygen consumption –mVO2).
What makes ADRCs “better” is that they have been found to be more abundant with cells that are more directly capable of stimulating the growth of new blood vessels as well as cardiomyocytes and are more potent later in life that bone marrow cells.


He didn't provide a study link but he is the point man for a highly sophisticated adipose derived stem cell clinic in The Bahamas. Here is the clinic he works at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78wYT5AG7pA

He says that a lot of the cells migrate out of organs and other tissue within 3 days although some of the cells have been found in the target tissue 5 weeks after injection. Still, a lot of the cells are leaving the target tissue and organs. I have looked into this clinic quite a bit and this clinic has very skilled and respected professionals on board. This is not a ramshackle Bahamian clinic. They set this clinic up right, with the right people, and I have a lot of confidence in their expertise and knowledge.

Since a lot of these cells are leaving the target tissue the surest way to get this done is to use AAPE. So we are now back where we were at the beginning of this thread talking about AAPE and AAPE is the most certain treatment for here and now. AAPE is the excretions from the same adipose derived stem cells anyway. What we need is to get the Greek and Swiss clinic to offer AAPE injections.

[nameless]

Wow. You really never cease to amaze me jarjar. You compress so much nonsense into your sentences that someone should give you an award for it. I am not even sure where to start ... You seem to confuse jahodas idea about adding fat cells to his experiments with the idea of injecting stem cells. And really, 'enlarge follicles', haha, what makes you think jahoda wants bigger follicles ?

Adsc really have pretty much nothing to do with jahodas research. He is trying to figure out signaling between fat cells and follicles

Jahoda is trying to do MORE than just figure out the signaling between fat cells and follicles. He is also trying to incorporate those signals into his culture cell constructs. And of course the signals are the growth factors.

And of course you indicated that Jahoda is trying to use more parts of fat tissue than just the fat stem cells, but even if that's true the fact still remains that that some of the fat tissue that he's using is cells that produce the AAPE growth factors and proteins and at least one of the reasons he's using these cells is because he wants to get these growth factors and proteins into his mixes.

if these growth factors and proteins will improve his lab results then they should be beneficial for our follicle needs as well.

[HairIsLife]

47 pages later.. Let me guess, nothing ?