adipose-derived stem cell protein extract

[FearTheLoss]

watch the video, he talks about it briefly...could be so..although I haven't really been following this.

[nameless]

No. See, that's what you misunderstand. When Gardner and Jahoda are talking about fat cells, they're not specifically talking about stem cells (which can secrete growth factors). They're talking about the WHOLE fat layer and how it's related to follicle development (really, just read that link that Gardner posted).

I don't feel like reading the link that Dr. Gardner posted. The point I gathered is that Dr. Gardner/Jahoda are interested in fat, including ADSCs. And if you yourself are saying that Jahoda is interested in the "WHOLE" fat layer than that would include ADSCs so that means you yourself are saying that Jahoda is interested in ADSCs.

Also, Gardner talks about adding fat CELLS here:

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=16284&page=8

Yea Gardner is talking about fat cells. How do I know he's talking about fat cells? Because he said fat cells. That's how. It's obvious that at the time Gardner posted that Jahoda study Jahoda had not yet worked out his plan for fat cells. You know the Jahoda study I'm talking about...the Jahoda MOUSE fat study you brandish even though you knock others for brandishing mouse studies which indicates that Jahoda sees a larger role for fat tissue than just the ADSCs, but the recent post by Aaron's indicates they are planning to add just cells (not all fat tissue) to their cultures and they are still finalizing things so for all we know they will decide to specifically use ADSCs. This appears to be an evolving situation because now Gardner is talking about adding "cells" to the culture whereas before he appeared to be interested in the entirety of a fat layer.

[hgs1989]

Current thinking is that stem cells just travel to different parts of the body after injection and rarely stay in the area where they were injected, or simply convert into other tissue like skin.

So, all this is highly experimental, costs are very steep, there's no real credible scientific proof and there are risks associated especially with extraction of the fat. But again, I'm not saying it's impossible to regain some hairs, who knows ...

1.then why replicel is working. if they do travel, then several injections might be needed. the cost is crazy to think of trying it.
2.what are the risks associated with fat extraction ?

[hgs1989]

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=17084

Seems Dr. Yates may be starting to do this?

FTL

would be interesting to see a standalone injection especially that he mixes SVF with PRP.

[nameless]

I've talked to some knowledgable people who have been experimenting with growth factors, they also doubt that there's something here. There's no real , credible scientific proof for all of this.

What a laugh!

Histogen studies and AAPE studies offered substantial proof that the growth factors do grow hair. You're an idiot.

[joachim]

On the one hand you say you agree with me and then on the other hand you say that what I'm saying is nonsense. What a laugh!

Since the only positions I've taken is that adipose derived stem cells and their growth factors (AAPE) can reverse hair loss, and since you yourself say you agree with me on these issues, then it makes absolutely no sense for you to say that the things I'm saying are nonsense. Either you agree with me or you don't.

I think that the thing with you is that you cow tow to Arishi but you know I'm right so you say that you agree with me but you also soften that by saying what I'm saying is nonsense. What a laugh.

You need to make up your mind son. You sound like a PMS female who doesn't know what she thinks.

jarjar, it's relatively easy to explain:

although i don't want to be rude, there's almost no way to say that in a nice way.
not all, but most posts from you tend to be nonsense. in general, 90% of your posts are wordfights with other members anyway. so only 10% of it have the potential to be useful.
i think 98 out of 100 forum members know you as an annoying forum member and will probably agree that most of your posts are BS. i mean, alone the fact that you tell other people about your high IQ and how intelligent you are, that alone says everything. i think you are a very special kind of person who lives a bit in his own world of fairytales and you still think that everybody else is wrong and you are the only one who knows best. most people know you from other forums too (e.g. at hairsite where you are named "jarjarbinx").
but hey, i don't care that much. nobody is perfect. and i learned to deal with that. i'm totally ok with you as forum member, even when you post nonsense. the only thing i don't get is the fact that you really never learn. you still think that you are totally right and keep on fighting against arashi and others with laughable arguments. even if 100 professors would tell you that you're wrong, you would believe you're right.
but i'm not going to fight that much with you. i don't have the time and energy for that.

on the other side, i appreciate it when you come up with good ideas. regarding the fat stem cell story i think you could be right here. there's some potential with such a treatment. so if you can find out more about those stuff, and even find a doctor who is willing to give us such an advanced treatment, then that's very good. most uf us, i think, discarded the adipose stem cell treatment too soon, which i think is sad. so i'm glad you investigate a bit more on that. put you should save your energy and concentrate on that, rather than fighting with other forum members.

keep cool

[Sogeking]

jarjar, it's relatively easy to explain:

although i don't want to be rude, there's almost no way to say that in a nice way.
not all, but most posts from you tend to be nonsense. in general, 90% of your posts are wordfights with other members anyway. so only 10% of it have the potential to be useful.
i think 98 out of 100 forum members know you as an annoying forum member and will probably agree that most of your posts are BS. i mean, alone the fact that you tell other people about your high IQ and how intelligent you are, that alone says everything. i think you are a very special kind of person who lives a bit in his own world of fairytales and you still think that everybody else is wrong and you are the only one who knows best. most people know you from other forums too (e.g. at hairsite where you are named "jarjarbinx").
but hey, i don't care that much. nobody is perfect. and i learned to deal with that. i'm totally ok with you as forum member, even when you post nonsense. the only thing i don't get is the fact that you really never learn. you still think that you are totally right and keep on fighting against arashi and others with laughable arguments. even if 100 professors would tell you that you're wrong, you would believe you're right.
but i'm not going to fight that much with you. i don't have the time and energy for that.

on the other side, i appreciate it when you come up with good ideas. regarding the fat stem cell story i think you could be right here. there's some potential with such a treatment. so if you can find out more about those stuff, and even find a doctor who is willing to give us such an advanced treatment, then that's very good. most uf us, i think, discarded the adipose stem cell treatment too soon, which i think is sad. so i'm glad you investigate a bit more on that. put you should save your energy and concentrate on that, rather than fighting with other forum members.

keep cool

Who will be held accountable if something happens to those who proceed with AAPE stem cells treatment and get sick. By get sick I mean any kind of stem cell can in theory turn into tumor.

Besides will these labs guarantee a certain success rate and the quality of their product? How can we know for sure that what we are getting are truly fat stem cells?
Besides this is not proven at all. That is why every new treatment goes through certain channels and gets bought by clinics, hospitals, etc.

This is why people don't take jarjar seriously when he proposed to open a clinic on Bahamas or Bermuda, whatever... This is a really dubious practice. Regulatory agencies are put into place to protect the user and customer. I know it is popular to shit on EMA and FDA but they are there for a reason...

[joachim]

Who will be held accountable if something happens to those who proceed with AAPE stem cells treatment and get sick. By get sick I mean any kind of stem cell can in theory turn into tumor.

Besides will these labs guarantee a certain success rate and the quality of their product? How can we know for sure that what we are getting are truly fat stem cells?
Besides this is not proven at all. That is why every new treatment goes through certain channels and gets bought by clinics, hospitals, etc.

This is why people don't take jarjar seriously when he proposed to open a clinic on Bahamas or Bermuda, whatever... This is a really dubious practice. Regulatory agencies are put into place to protect the user and customer. I know it is popular to shit on EMA and FDA but they are there for a reason...

i know, it's going to be difficult. we have no proof that it works at all. no serious before/after pics. we only know that there are some docs and clinics who offer such similar treatments.

regarding safety i'm not that concerned. fat cells extraction (lipo) and injection in other areas of the body is practiced for many years. the question now is what happens when you extract the growth factors separately and inject them back. when further culturing and multiplication of cells and growth factors come into the game then the situation is even more difficult.

[nameless]

Who will be held accountable if something happens to those who proceed with AAPE stem cells treatment and get sick. By get sick I mean any kind of stem cell can in theory turn into tumor.

Besides will these labs guarantee a certain success rate and the quality of their product? How can we know for sure that what we are getting are truly fat stem cells?
Besides this is not proven at all. That is why every new treatment goes through certain channels and gets bought by clinics, hospitals, etc.

This is why people don't take jarjar seriously when he proposed to open a clinic on Bahamas or Bermuda, whatever... This is a really dubious practice. Regulatory agencies are put into place to protect the user and customer. I know it is popular to shit on EMA and FDA but they are there for a reason...

Ok so then wait 10 years for a treatment.

[nameless]

i know, it's going to be difficult. we have no proof that it works at all. no serious before/after pics. we only know that there are some docs and clinics who offer such similar treatments.

regarding safety i'm not that concerned. fat cells extraction (lipo) and injection in other areas of the body is practiced for many years. the question now is what happens when you extract the growth factors separately and inject them back. when further culturing and multiplication of cells and growth factors come into the game then the situation is even more difficult.

AAPE = nature's version of Histogen's HSC which has gone through some studies.

[nameless]

jarjar, it's relatively easy to explain:

although i don't want to be rude, there's almost no way to say that in a nice way.
not all, but most posts from you tend to be nonsense. in general, 90% of your posts are wordfights with other members anyway. so only 10% of it have the potential to be useful.
i think 98 out of 100 forum members know you as an annoying forum member and will probably agree that most of your posts are BS. i mean, alone the fact that you tell other people about your high IQ and how intelligent you are, that alone says everything. i think you are a very special kind of person who lives a bit in his own world of fairytales and you still think that everybody else is wrong and you are the only one who knows best. most people know you from other forums too (e.g. at hairsite where you are named "jarjarbinx").
but hey, i don't care that much. nobody is perfect. and i learned to deal with that. i'm totally ok with you as forum member, even when you post nonsense. the only thing i don't get is the fact that you really never learn. you still think that you are totally right and keep on fighting against arashi and others with laughable arguments. even if 100 professors would tell you that you're wrong, you would believe you're right.
but i'm not going to fight that much with you. i don't have the time and energy for that.

on the other side, i appreciate it when you come up with good ideas. regarding the fat stem cell story i think you could be right here. there's some potential with such a treatment. so if you can find out more about those stuff, and even find a doctor who is willing to give us such an advanced treatment, then that's very good. most uf us, i think, discarded the adipose stem cell treatment too soon, which i think is sad. so i'm glad you investigate a bit more on that. put you should save your energy and concentrate on that, rather than fighting with other forum members.

keep cool

Peace Joachin.

But I gotta say that I love your non-denial denial.

Just so you know, I have basically asserted 3 things:

1. Since Nigam lives in a country where stem cell culture and implantation into humans is lawful, and he's willing to do it, he is probably our best bet for early stem cell treatment. Now, I recently changed my mind about this because he is no longer allowed to do this legally in India since India has changed their laws regards to stem cell culture. Before I was balancing the negative things against Dr. Nigam with the positivism that he WAS probably our soonest path to cultured stem cell therapy. But now that he can no longer do cultured stem cell treatments I think that it would be a mistake to go to India to be treated by Dr. Nigam.

2. AAPE would almost certainly be a lot better treatment than anything else obtainable today.

3. ADSCs *might" be a better treatment than almost anything else obtainable today except for AAPE. I'm unsure about ADSCs because after they're injected I don't know if they end up where we need them to go, and stay there.

[hgs1989]

the question now is what happens when you extract the growth factors separately and inject them back.

regarding injecting growth factors,histogen showed the safety of such practice already. prp is basically your own concentrated growth factors HGF in prp is not different from HGF from a cultured cell medium, it is simple chemistry. many cosmetic products include such growth factors. they are widely used. if something wrong can come out , it would have been reported already. the efficacy of injecting growth factors and signaling proteins is really out of question. in the paper that started the thread, the injection were 1 to 2 weeks for a prolonged period(cant remember I guess 6 weeks ) . that is probably why no serious pictures from clinics came out and they actually inject fat stem cells not the protein extract. they offer it as a one time treatment where it should be applied systematically. when histogen comes out, if the price is too high and it is offered as one time treatment, it will work moderately for many people.many hair topicals also exist today that contain growth factors, but I doubt the concentration is of any benefit at all. not to mention stability of such proteins. just google growth factors one by one with the word hair. you will find studies on mice and on in vitro human cells. you will find studies showing the role of each one in the hair cycle in human hair. again we need this to e done and looked into by professionals. AAPE is one such product. now it doesn't have to AAPE from this brand it can be any ****tail of growth factors from cultured media.

[Arashi]

when further culturing and multiplication of cells and growth factors come into the game then the situation is even more difficult.

Exactly. Who knows how much of the original dna is still present in the cultured cells. That's really my main problem with jarjar : he pushes others towards these experimental therapies, tells them they're all safe and effective and let's them take the risks for him. In the years I have been following these forums jarjar has been one of the few members who didn't even have one surgery or experimental treatment himself.

[Arashi]

. just google growth factors one by one with the word hair.
.

Just Google growth factors and cancer

[hgs1989]

Just Google growth factors and cancer

we know about wnts and SHH as certainly carcinogenic. others are called promoters or having an increased risk of causing cancer or cancer promoters. meaning that if you have a tumor these GF will promote the growth of tumors as they will promote the proliferation of regular cells. if we starting to avoid something because of the risk, then we would avoid using mobile phones, processed food, eating meat, going to the gym, going under the sun when it is a shiny beautiful day, .... etc. it is just a risk.heck even dht can cause prostate cancer. many don't want to lower it for hair and sexuality despite this fact. again prp is safe and histogen is safe. PRP is widely used now in hair transplants. nothing negative came out of it so far. the growth factors in prp are the same from any other human source. I pointed out that GFs are already in use in cosmetics. IGF is been injected by body builders. you would expect to see many with cancer. the debate can go for a long time but I am not willing to argue this cancer thing.I just want professionals to work on this stuff for hair regeneration and we will find out. so far I haven't seen anything discouraging.