adipose-derived stem cell protein extract

[moleular]

35yrsafter, hellouser & hgs1989

I do wonder whether sometimes these forums never manage to get anywhere, because the original thread which starts the topic gets lost in pages and pages of crap.
This is exactly the thing I'm talking about, this is the same pdf which kicked off this topic (Fukuoka's research), and it is this which I am trying to crowd-fund. The procedure currently isn't available.
The vials you make reference to hgs1989 are available from some spurious looking site. As far as I can ascertain, it seems that they were pushing the AAPE product from Korea.
I mailed the owner and after one poor reply, heard nothing else.

What I'm trying to do here is crowd fund this research - the culturing of stem cells under hypoxic conditions to produce various growth factors - to double check the research of Fukuoka and form it into a viable procedure.
As I have mentioned already, I have a lab organised and partner clinics. What I'd like now is to gauge some interest. I'll set this up as a new thread from the main cutting edge / future treatments and link to a form where people can register their interest and give an idea of how much they could donate.
Maybe someone could give me an idea of how Desmonds trip to Korea was funded so that I could follow the same methods?

[sascha]

35yrsafter, hellouser & hgs1989

I do wonder whether sometimes these forums never manage to get anywhere, because the original thread which starts the topic gets lost in pages and pages of crap.
This is exactly the thing I'm talking about, this is the same pdf which kicked off this topic (Fukuoka's research), and it is this which I am trying to crowd-fund. The procedure currently isn't available.
The vials you make reference to hgs1989 are available from some spurious looking site. As far as I can ascertain, it seems that they were pushing the AAPE product from Korea.
I mailed the owner and after one poor reply, heard nothing else.

What I'm trying to do here is crowd fund this research - the culturing of stem cells under hypoxic conditions to produce various growth factors - to double check the research of Fukuoka and form it into a viable procedure.
As I have mentioned already, I have a lab organised and partner clinics. What I'd like now is to gauge some interest. I'll set this up as a new thread from the main cutting edge / future treatments and link to a form where people can register their interest and give an idea of how much they could donate.
Maybe someone could give me an idea of how Desmonds trip to Korea was funded so that I could follow the same methods?

Hello. Desmond simply set up a PayPal account, as far as I know, and all members had the possibility to donate money, some would give more, some would give less, some would not donate.
And if I am allowed to say something regarding your theory that the off-track posts keep this forum from success: I personally do not think so, because this is just a plattform for us to exchange information, which is far from constant. Lets look at this time period right now. Nothing gets released, ergo, nobody posts something. As soon as there are good news or possibilities, like sending Desmond to WCHR 2014, everybody is on board. If by now nobody showed interest in your idea, I personally do not think this is going to change very rapidly.
I am very convinced that I won't take long until Replicel releases in Jaoan. Their tweets and releases indicate something exciting. Cheers

[hgs1989]

What I'm trying to do here is crowd fund this research - the culturing of stem cells under hypoxic conditions to produce various growth factors - to double check the research of Fukuoka and form it into a viable procedure.
As I have mentioned already, I have a lab organised and partner clinics. What I'd like now is to gauge some interest. I'll set this up as a new thread from the main cutting edge / future treatments and link to a form where people can register their interest and give an idea of how much they could donate.
Maybe someone could give me an idea of how Desmonds trip to Korea was funded so that I could follow the same methods?

you don't need to double check any thing. culturing cells and take the proteins has been done and many cosmetic products that we have today conatin growth factors. it is the FDA approval of meso injections of these growth factors is what we need and what histogen is trying to achieve. I made a mistake before that I thought that culturing fibroblasts is different than cutlring adepocyte cells, apparently it is the same. we don't need to double check any thing. a ****tail of (bfgf, kgf, folistatin, thymosin beta 4, wnts, vegf, hgf, ctgf and igf1) will do great for hair loss sufferers and it is already researched. these growth factors are also in many cosmetic products. getting them to the dermis without injections is a tough task. iposomal delivery is one way. dermaheal has allsorts of GF in their products with liposome. but injections is the way to go with GFs not topicals.

[moleular]

hgs1989, what I'm trying to say is that this is already being done in Europe for skin rejuvenation therapies, using the growth factors derived from cultured stem cells - and by that i mean injections. Not at any point did I talk about topicals.
I used the wrong term when I said double check. What I'm trying to do is get a lab which I have been in contact with, to invest in hypoxic culturing. I've been in contact with a number of labs, and none of them were immediately familiar with, or currently doing hypoxic culturing.
It is this which I'm trying to set up, so the lab can do the necessary tests and I can provide the treatment to select number of volunteers, to ultimately prove to the community that it works and is possible under current confines of the law - at least in Europe.

[nameless]

35yrsafter, hellouser & hgs1989

I do wonder whether sometimes these forums never manage to get anywhere, because the original thread which starts the topic gets lost in pages and pages of crap.
This is exactly the thing I'm talking about, this is the same pdf which kicked off this topic (Fukuoka's research), and it is this which I am trying to crowd-fund. The procedure currently isn't available.
The vials you make reference to hgs1989 are available from some spurious looking site. As far as I can ascertain, it seems that they were pushing the AAPE product from Korea.
I mailed the owner and after one poor reply, heard nothing else.

What I'm trying to do here is crowd fund this research - the culturing of stem cells under hypoxic conditions to produce various growth factors - to double check the research of Fukuoka and form it into a viable procedure.
As I have mentioned already, I have a lab organised and partner clinics. What I'd like now is to gauge some interest. I'll set this up as a new thread from the main cutting edge / future treatments and link to a form where people can register their interest and give an idea of how much they could donate.
Maybe someone could give me an idea of how Desmonds trip to Korea was funded so that I could follow the same methods?

I don't trust those vials anymore than you do moleular. Assuming they're legit there is still the problem that growth factors have to be stored and transported in very specific ways or else they lose potency. I would be highly skeptical of those vials. That having been said, I still can't figure out why a 4-man study needs to be done before the lab/clinic you found would start dispensing the treatment. There are at least 2 studies already done on humans using AAPE. I don't see where some small 4-man study would make a big difference to the body of knowledge already known about AAPE treatment. By requiring a 4-man study using AAPE all we are accomplishing is to cause a needless delay because it will take time to raise the money and then the study would have to be done. The two studies that were already done involved more subjects than just 4 subjects so we already have the results of two larger studies than the study you are proposing.

And then there's the issue that the highly credible and respected Yale University already assured everyone that the growth factors/proteins which comes from adipose derived stem cells are not only the signals that prompt the follicles to grow hair, but they are also the ONLY THING required to get follicles to grow hair. And the growth factors/proteins in AAPE are the the growth factors/proteins that Yale University was referring to.

If we waste time doing a 4-man study it would just be a time-wasting formality IMHO.

[Armandein]

ASCs are activated using specialized laser light.
Is it neccesary? what abouy specialized laser light?

[nameless]

hgs1989, what I'm trying to say is that this is already being done in Europe for skin rejuvenation therapies, using the growth factors derived from cultured stem cells - and by that i mean injections. Not at any point did I talk about topicals.
I used the wrong term when I said double check. What I'm trying to do is get a lab which I have been in contact with, to invest in hypoxic culturing. I've been in contact with a number of labs, and none of them were immediately familiar with, or currently doing hypoxic culturing.
It is this which I'm trying to set up, so the lab can do the necessary tests and I can provide the treatment to select number of volunteers, to ultimately prove to the community that it works and is possible under current confines of the law - at least in Europe.

First of all let me say that I greatly appreciate what you are doing. You are taking this way further than I was capable of getting it, and I'm grateful.

But still raising $50,000 would cause a delay and it does not seem necessary because we don't need a lab to do hypoxic culturing. The Korean company can do it and apparently the Korean company will do it. The Korean company did it for the scientists who conducted the study so the Korean company should be willing to do it for the clinic that you work with.

[hgs1989]

hgs1989, what I'm trying to say is that this is already being done in Europe for skin rejuvenation therapies, using the growth factors derived from cultured stem cells - and by that i mean injections. Not at any point did I talk about topicals.
I used the wrong term when I said double check. What I'm trying to do is get a lab which I have been in contact with, to invest in hypoxic culturing. I've been in contact with a number of labs, and none of them were immediately familiar with, or currently doing hypoxic culturing.
It is this which I'm trying to set up, so the lab can do the necessary tests and I can provide the treatment to select number of volunteers, to ultimately prove to the community that it works and is possible under current confines of the law - at least in Europe.

dude we don't need to prove it works. we simply know it does. the amount of studies of what growth factors can do to hair loss is huge. on mice and cultured human cells. the people who are not interested might be NW6 or NW7 and not much can be done with GF. something different need to be done to activate resting hair follicle stem cells in completely bald zones. histogen showed us that the extract works. multiple treatments can give great results for men. we have seen great results on women but men are affected more by dht. dermaheal in the us has multiple products based on GFs but we can not inject them in the US. they say use it as a topical and use derma rolling to enhance delivery and they have a topical with liposme delivery. I am starting to use the topical and will use their stem c rum (it conatins various GFs and conditioned media extract) with derma stamping. I don't expect much because it is not being injected but i will see how it goes. we can buy pure from lab suppliers but it is un advisable because we can end up using too much which can be more harm than good. I don't know why do you think that we need a lab or any thing . you can buy them online from lab suppliers purely and they are expensive and we can not handle them properly at home and we can end up using too much. a specialized studied product is more appealing at least to me. that why i wanna try AAPE but unfortunately I can't.

[zeos]

dermaheal in the us has multiple products based on GFs but we can not inject them in the US.

i don't understand this,dermaheal has already vials available for mesotherapy,it clearly states :Injected by syringe, meso gun or treated by micro-needle roller,
so what is the problem?

http://integratedskincare.net/files/63390656.pdf

[nameless]

Moleular, just schmooze the lab and clinic that you're emailing. Let them know that they don't need to test culturing cells in hypoxic conditions because the Korean company will do that for them. The lab you're working with would lipo some fat cells from the person, send them to the Korean company, and the Korean company would culture them in hypoxic conditions and harvest the AAPE for the lab and the clinic.

This is not a big deal. If you have a lab and clinic interested then nothing else needs to be done except for the lab and clinic to start talking with the Korean company.

If you get the AAPE from the Korean then you will be getting the exact same AAPE that's in the studies and it works. And as I already said, the 4-man study you are suggesting would not add anything relevant to the body of knowledge already accumulated because the two studies already done using AAPE involved a larger number of subjects. Some small 4-man study is not going to add meaningful information that the larger studies have not already demonstrated.

[hgs1989]

i don't understand this,dermaheal has already vials available for mesotherapy,it clearly states :Injected by syringe, meso gun or treated by micro-needle roller,
so what is the problem?
http://integratedskincare.net/files/63390656.pdf

any form of mesotherapy needs FDA approval. no doctor will inject it. I actually don't have high hopes for it. I don't question the legitimacy of the product ingredients is but the concentration might be low.

[moleular]

To all who have commented on this;

The money is needed to do 2 things; prove to those who run clinics that this is possible and works, and equip the lab for hypoxic culturing.

The reason for not simply getting the AAPE product from Korea is also twofold;
1. The company is completely unreachable - I have tried
2. European law wouldn't allow for the import of unverified growth factors to be injected - this is where you would need to apply for medical approval.

By equipping a lab and using ones own stem cells, there are no legal formalities to go through for injection. The growth factors which have been cultured are effectively yours, so 'permission' as it were isn't needed in order for a medical professional to administer them.
Whilst many think that 'certain companies are doing x, so surely everyone knows about this stuff', it simply isn't the case.

It's not about proving that this works to the community, we obviously know that it works, it's about making those who are capable of administering it (as a proper procedure which people are comfortable receiving) aware of the research and willing to get involved in using it as a therapy.
And I don't know whether you are aware, but what I am talking about is AAPE. This is just a moniker which the korean company have applied to it, but it's the same as the research carried out by Fukuoka, and that which I am trying to community behind to fund.
Secondly, the growth factors which you can buy from research companies are not safe to be injecting into your scalp and applying them topically is certainly a waste of time - whilst their molecular weight may be small enough, they won't have the desired effect. Research has found in certain instances that DMSO will allow certain growth factors to penetrate the skin, but as has been found out by experimenters on here - DMSO is a nasty substance and can cause more hair to fall out than it will grow.

And finally, to all the naysayers or those who would rather throw all obstacles possible in the way, look at it like this;

If all you had to give was say $25-50 to allow me to get this up and running, and you are proven right, then what have you lost? $25?
That isn't much to lose and equally not very much to try and get something potentially worthwhile off the ground, which has no barriers to market.

Yes there are new treatments on the horizon, and yes they make all the right noises in terms of being 'just around the corner'. They have PR teams designed to make it seem this way, because they're businesses at the end of the day, and they need to raise capital.
If you think though that Histogen or Replicel will be out within 2 years though, you're very much mistaken.

[Haircure]

You say that we know it works, but again what is it's effectiveness? I've seen one article and it only provided a few very low quality pictures showing some possible growth and the results were given via a subjective opinion by the patients using the VAS.

If there are anymore articles which show how effective AAPE is , I would be interested in reading it, because to me the biggest issue is not just if AAPE works or not, but how effective it is, and if it is worth it.

[zeos]

any form of mesotherapy needs FDA approval. no doctor will inject it. I actually don't have high hopes for it. I don't question the legitimacy of the product ingredients is but the concentration might be low.

maybe you should contact or call dermaheal,i'm sure they will give you addresses with professionals in the United States where you can inject this stuff
if there is no FDA approval how can they advertise it then?
http://www.aveyou.com/dermahealstemc...olution-1.aspx (directions for use)

it seems this treatment is widespread in many different european countries
but I'm a little bit confused watching this video(check minute 1:21)

http://dermagenica.co.uk/dermaheal-hl/

what does it mean?
does this treatment also play with your hormones like finasteride?

[hgs1989]

You say that we know it works, but again what is it's effectiveness? I've seen one article and it only provided a few very low quality pictures showing some possible growth and the results were given via a subjective opinion by the patients using the VAS.

If there are anymore articles which show how effective AAPE is , I would be interested in reading it, because to me the biggest issue is not just if AAPE works or not, but how effective it is, and if it is worth it.

I think you are directing this to me, am I right? any how AAPE in the form of the product I posted about might be a scam. I don't know. I am only praising using Growth factors whether it comes from E.coli and /or culturing human cells. lots of studies showed that in mice in cultured human DP cells. histogen showed that they work. and if AAPE or dermaheal products are legit and well studied to optimize the concentration and dosing then we have a product that works. scientists should stop worrying and use GF and stem cells in humans not only for hair but for other stuff too. the faster the better. this technology needs to be moved from the lab to become commercially available as fast as possible. search the web yourself put the list of GFs (one by one) and hair growth see for yourself. dht is a mere signaling hormone that makes the follicle on the scalp release TGF beta and dkk1 and die while dht makes our beard follicles release IGF-1, HGF, KGF to grow. other proteins might be involved.we simply know what the mechanism of balding is on a molecular level. we just don't know why this happens in response to DHT. what is the difference between balding and non balding areas, Cotseralis proposed PGD2 but this is yet to be determined.
take a look at WCHR 2013 abstracts many of them are about using GFs for MPB.

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v133/n5/full/jid2013110a.html