adipose-derived stem cell protein extract

[hgs1989]

47 pages later.. Let me guess, nothing ?

depend on your definition of nothing. here we have a product (AAPE) which is similar to histogen. it is injected every 2 weeks and results to me looks great. see the paper that began the whole thing. instead of commenting on results and discussing the potentials we have someone who is clogging the thread for petty arguments of who was right and who was wrong. he would go as old as this forum can be to satisfy his obsession.

[Arashi]

Arishi, here in quotation marks is a post by Aaron Gardner posted at this very website wherein Aaron Gardner talks about using cells for the very exact purpose of getting the cell's growth factors into Jahoda's mix. I will underline the key statement by Gardner:


"No one has presented, or published work demonstrating full retention of inductivity or gene expression. As I said above “But I don’t think 100% restoration is required in culture, it won’t hurt but a lot of the character of the DP in vivo is generated by its interactions with surrounding tissue. All we and the other groups are attempting to do is restore enough character to the DP cells to kick start this interaction with a high efficiency.”

The addition of growth factors is not desirable for clinical practice. Producing these factors to a clinical standard is very difficult and expensive, it is better to try and induce the cells to make these factors themselves.

I’m not sure what you mean about the sheath cells, do you mean are they important for hair follicle orientation?

The interaction of any constructs with the surrounding tissues is key yes, as I’ve mentioned previously implanting these constructs into skin which has underlying problems will not “cure” baldness. Co-therapies limiting the degradation of any new follicles would be required.

Multi-cell models including adipocytes (fat cells) and melanocytes (cells that provide colouration) are in the works, but I can’t talk about those at the moment."

So I have proved you wrong again. Jahoda is in fact using cells to involve growth factors, and this means that Jahoda sees value in growth factors such as AAPE.

And your indication that multiple treatments would prove no more beneficial than multiple treatments is laughable. I work at a hospital and we frequently give multiple treatments to treat a condition. Rogaine employs repeat treatments and everyone knows it.

Bzzt! Wrong again Arishi.

Wow. You just keep doing it eh. This is the post you are quoting: https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...l=1#post174467 in which Dr Gardner was asked about injecting growth factors. He simply commented that he doesn't like injecting growth factors for several reasons he outlined and he thinks it makes more sense to let cells secrete growth factors themselves. Actually, that's 100% against YOUR advise for people to inject AAPE (=growth factors) instead of stem cells. Besides that, this has NOTHING to do with his own research.

You keep on pushing people with lies onto unproven therapies. Did you ever make your excuses to Tom Vercetti, whose donor got destroyed by Nigam ? Did you ever say sorry to Boldy, who is STILL fighting infections due to the grafts Nigam implanted upside down ? Did you send flowers to Wesley when Nigam's animal serum injections made him so sick that he almost literally died ? No of course not. You just keep on posting lies, hoping people will move onto unproven therapies so they can test it FOR YOU, while you keep your money in your pocket and are not risking your health. You said you are a religious guy, what do you think your god will think of your behaviour ?

[Alias123]

well im doing it anyway, i guess the chances for maintance are small but its the best i got since im very much against hairtransplants. wish me luck

[nameless]

I told you from the beginning don't go. in the us the treatment is a lot cheaper and even at the 2500 $ price i consider it expensive. even if the treatment worked, it shouldn't be priced at 8000. I don't think the equipment use would cost much. are they charging 7000 euros for injecting your scalp ?!!! that is if the equipment use is 1000 euros.

The European clinics are charging so much because there is little or no competition. The companies in the USA are not offering pure adipose derived stem cells. The USA companies are offering SVF, which is a mixture of fat tissue items. Some of these other items in the SVF could possibly hinder the potential of the adipose derived stem cells. If you go with adipose derived stem cells you would be better off to use PURE adipose derived stem cells and you'll have to go to Europe for that. These European companies know that they have the market cornered.

All that aside, I think that the AAPE excretions from the adipose derived stem cells would be more certain to be effective than the adipose derived stem cells because I have it on good authority that a lot of the adipose derived stem cells can clear out of the target area inside of 3 days. Given that, I think the smartest most-certain way to go would be the AAPE instead.

[hgs1989]

what the f*** so me doing this treatment for the second time is going to do nothing to my hair? that would suck since i really got my hopes up for my hairline to stop receding,.. im not expecting miracles but atleast halt the loss, are you saying u think the chances of it working are minimal? that is not worth to pay 8000 euros for

I told you from the beginning don't go. in the us the treatment is a lot cheaper and even at the 2500 $ price i consider it expensive. even if the treatment worked, it shouldn't be priced at 8000. I don't think the equipment use would cost much. are they charging 7000 euros for injecting your scalp ?!!! that is if the equipment use is 1000 euros.

[Arashi]

what the f*** so me doing this treatment for the second time is going to do nothing to my hair? that would suck since i really got my hopes up for my hairline to stop receding,.. im not expecting miracles but atleast halt the loss, are you saying u think the chances of it working are minimal? that is not worth to pay 8000 euros for

Nobody knows man. In theory it could work but I'd NEVER pay 8000 euro for this slight chance it does work. But again, who knows, my guess is as good as anybody's.

[hellouser]

Too bad this site doesn't have PM, this thread would probably only have two pages.

It does. PM'ing is actually disabled.

[Alias123]

what the f*** so me doing this treatment for the second time is going to do nothing to my hair? that would suck since i really got my hopes up for my hairline to stop receding,.. im not expecting miracles but atleast halt the loss, are you saying u think the chances of it working are minimal? that is not worth to pay 8000 euros for

[HairIsLife]

Ahh, now I see where the 47 pages came from.

Too bad this site doesn't have PM, this thread would probably only have two pages.

[nameless]

Wow. First you say:


and then:



I'm not even going to respond, anyone with a bit of knowledge will know enough. You're making up so much crap and present all your crazy theories, misinterpretation of research and absurd ideas as facts, that I'm not even going to respond to it anymore. Argueing with an idiot on the internet, got better things to do this sunday, sorry ...

Arishi, here in quotation marks is a post by Aaron Gardner posted at this very website wherein Aaron Gardner talks about using cells for the very exact purpose of getting the cell's growth factors into Jahoda's mix. I will underline the key statement by Gardner:


"No one has presented, or published work demonstrating full retention of inductivity or gene expression. As I said above “But I don’t think 100% restoration is required in culture, it won’t hurt but a lot of the character of the DP in vivo is generated by its interactions with surrounding tissue. All we and the other groups are attempting to do is restore enough character to the DP cells to kick start this interaction with a high efficiency.”

The addition of growth factors is not desirable for clinical practice. Producing these factors to a clinical standard is very difficult and expensive, it is better to try and induce the cells to make these factors themselves.

I’m not sure what you mean about the sheath cells, do you mean are they important for hair follicle orientation?

The interaction of any constructs with the surrounding tissues is key yes, as I’ve mentioned previously implanting these constructs into skin which has underlying problems will not “cure” baldness. Co-therapies limiting the degradation of any new follicles would be required.

Multi-cell models including adipocytes (fat cells) and melanocytes (cells that provide colouration) are in the works, but I can’t talk about those at the moment."

So I have proved you wrong again. Jahoda is in fact using cells to involve growth factors, and this means that Jahoda sees value in growth factors such as AAPE.

And your indication that multiple treatments would prove no more beneficial than multiple treatments is laughable. I work at a hospital and we frequently give multiple treatments to treat a condition. Rogaine employs repeat treatments and everyone knows it.

Bzzt! Wrong again Arishi.

[Arashi]

Wow. First you say:

Jahoda is trying to do MORE than just figure out the signaling between fat cells and follicles. He is also trying to incorporate those signals into his culture cell constructs. And of course the signals are the growth factors.

And of course you indicated that Jahoda is trying to use more parts of fat tissue than just the fat stem cells, but even if that's true the fact still remains that that some of the fat tissue that he's using is cells that produce the AAPE growth factors and proteins and at least one of the reasons he's using these cells is because he wants to get these growth factors and proteins into his mixes.

if these growth factors and proteins will improve his lab results then they should be beneficial for our follicle needs as well.

and then:

This is your problem Arishi. You don't know what you're talking about.

I'm not even going to respond, anyone with a bit of knowledge will know enough. You're making up so much crap and present all your crazy theories, misinterpretation of research and absurd ideas as facts, that I'm not even going to respond to it anymore. Argueing with an idiot on the internet, got better things to do this sunday, sorry ...

[nameless]

Well if the treatment doesn't work, then most probably the next one won't either ... I have a feeling they're selling you a worthless therapy, but there's only 1 way to find out I guess

By your logic if you have an ear infection and you take one 500 mg pill of penicillin and it doesn't kill the infection you should stop taking the penicillin. But if you were to continue taking the penicillin 3 times per day for 10 days it would work.

This is your problem Arishi. You don't know what you're talking about.

[HairIsLife]

47 pages later.. Let me guess, nothing ?

[nameless]

Wow. You really never cease to amaze me jarjar. You compress so much nonsense into your sentences that someone should give you an award for it. I am not even sure where to start ... You seem to confuse jahodas idea about adding fat cells to his experiments with the idea of injecting stem cells. And really, 'enlarge follicles', haha, what makes you think jahoda wants bigger follicles ?

Adsc really have pretty much nothing to do with jahodas research. He is trying to figure out signaling between fat cells and follicles

Jahoda is trying to do MORE than just figure out the signaling between fat cells and follicles. He is also trying to incorporate those signals into his culture cell constructs. And of course the signals are the growth factors.

And of course you indicated that Jahoda is trying to use more parts of fat tissue than just the fat stem cells, but even if that's true the fact still remains that that some of the fat tissue that he's using is cells that produce the AAPE growth factors and proteins and at least one of the reasons he's using these cells is because he wants to get these growth factors and proteins into his mixes.

if these growth factors and proteins will improve his lab results then they should be beneficial for our follicle needs as well.

[nameless]

please provide the reference of stem cell migration from the location of injection. if this is true, it might have implications on replicel.

I can't find an actual study myself but I did contact the heart clinic in The Bahamas that is working with ADSCs and this below in bold type is what they told me:

ADRCs as well as mesenchymal cells (MSCs) from bone marrow,when delivered in the heart as well as other tissues and organs have generally migrated out of the target tissue after about three days though some can be found up to about five weeks. It is important to note that the primary way these cells regenerate and repair is through cell-to-cell signaling (paracrine effect). The cells can and do turn into other cells. That is why they are called adult stem cells. The differentiate into adipose, bone, cartilage etc. The cells “know” what tissue is needed so in the case of the heart they differentiate into heart muscle cells (cardiomyocytes). It is also important to note that while ADRCs have been found to grow new cardiomyocytes they are not enough to build new muscle but they appear to assist in improving pumping function. The most important mechanism for cardiac and other wound repair found with ADRCs is the growth of new blood vessels (angiogenesis). These new bloods vessels support the main arteries and bring more blood and oxygen to the lungs so the person can breathe better per the PRECISE trial (see data on maximum volume of oxygen consumption –mVO2).
What makes ADRCs “better” is that they have been found to be more abundant with cells that are more directly capable of stimulating the growth of new blood vessels as well as cardiomyocytes and are more potent later in life that bone marrow cells.


He didn't provide a study link but he is the point man for a highly sophisticated adipose derived stem cell clinic in The Bahamas. Here is the clinic he works at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78wYT5AG7pA

He says that a lot of the cells migrate out of organs and other tissue within 3 days although some of the cells have been found in the target tissue 5 weeks after injection. Still, a lot of the cells are leaving the target tissue and organs. I have looked into this clinic quite a bit and this clinic has very skilled and respected professionals on board. This is not a ramshackle Bahamian clinic. They set this clinic up right, with the right people, and I have a lot of confidence in their expertise and knowledge.

Since a lot of these cells are leaving the target tissue the surest way to get this done is to use AAPE. So we are now back where we were at the beginning of this thread talking about AAPE and AAPE is the most certain treatment for here and now. AAPE is the excretions from the same adipose derived stem cells anyway. What we need is to get the Greek and Swiss clinic to offer AAPE injections.