WCHR 2014 Presentations (Community-funded)

[Arashi]

the more i think about it, the more i'm sure that no one is gonna cure hairloss until they can do it with gene editing in the far future. Next time you see a totally bald man, just think about it- Even if you manage to make a new follicle in a lab (big if still), you still have to get that thing to a) grow in the right direction and cycle (who in the hell know how they can accomplish this, the only way i can think is to grow an entire follicular unit and implant each one carefully like a HT) and b) get that thing to thrive in fibrotic, totally inhospitable bald tissue, when your entire body, and all the cells in your skin are telling that thing to fall apart, as well as telling all the surrounding fat and tissues to not support it and fall apart too.

First of all, they already DID create a follicle in the lab. Ok it wasn't a 'perfect follicle' just yet, but they did create one, producing human hair (albeit not cosmetically viable). Secondly the points you mention dont seem that hard to solve: Team Tsuji already managed the angle problem by guiding the hair with a nylon thread. Implanting those could most probably be automated by an ATRAS-like robot. And about the surroundings: what if you just would combine the technique with a FUE ? You extract a graft, transplant it onto the recipient and then implant the bio-engineered follicle in the donor in the location where you extracted the graft, so it's in a MUCH more hair-follicle friendly environment.

And maybe the 'angle problem' isnt even a problem at all ! Remember how Jahoda implanted DSC cells onto his wife's arm and a perfect hair grew ? Wouldnt it make sense that the HF found a natural angle itself, just like it works on a newborn baby ? That's exactly what seems to have happened in Jahoda's case !

I do agree with Sascha, you should talk to some other researchers, not just Dr Xu, that guy seems to have gotten the best of you with his negative talks ! Hopefully Desmond will post some good news from Lauster's camp on wednesday, cant wait !!

[hellouser]

Remember how Jahoda implanted DSC cells onto his wife's arm and a perfect hair grew ?

This is evidence that Replicel's method can and should work.

HOWEVER, would this not also give the impression that fatty tissue is necessary for growth from cells and the fatty tissue from areas outside of the scalp are capable of providing this? Thus, could it not be possible to do some fat grafting on balding alreas and inject cultured DSC cells weeks later?

[joachim]

First of all, they already DID create a follicle in the lab. Ok it wasn't a 'perfect follicle' just yet, but they did create one, producing human hair (albeit not cosmetically viable). Secondly the points you mention dont seem that hard to solve: Team Tsuji already managed the angle problem by guiding the hair with a nylon thread. Implanting those could most probably be automated by an ATRAS-like robot. And about the surroundings: what if you just would combine the technique with a FUE ? You extract a graft, transplant it onto the recipient and then implant the bio-engineered follicle in the donor in the location where you extracted the graft, so it's in a MUCH more hair-follicle friendly environment.

And maybe the 'angle problem' isnt even a problem at all ! Remember how Jahoda implanted DSC cells onto his wife's arm and a perfect hair grew ? Wouldnt it make sense that the HF found a natural angle itself, just like it works on a newborn baby ? That's exactly what seems to have happened in Jahoda's case !

I do agree with Sascha, you should talk to some other researchers, not just Dr Xu, that guy seems to have gotten the best of you with his negative talks ! Hopefully Desmond will post some good news from Lauster's camp on wednesday, cant wait !!

have to agree. the workaround with the normal FUE and just repair the extraction sites with bioengineered hair seems a nice backup plan.

even if you can't get back the full natural density of 40.000 hairs or so many people would be satisfied with 10.000 already... you can create some good coverage with 10.000 hairs. this is far better than being completely bald.

lab grown hair is definitely coming somewhen, even if it's 10 years away from a commercial release.

[brocktherock]

Look how far the progress we know about has came in the last year. Almost overnight they cured AA from someone we've never heard of. Also Des noticed that all the progress reported at congress was from about 18 months ago so they are working from the shadows. More and more teams are emerging with different approaches. People are building off of each others knowledge. The timeline guessing game is always a losing battle but I got to say the recent momentum on the research and overall interest in finding a cure is very much inspiring.

[35YrsAfter]

Just took a look at this for the first time, VERY interesting stuff! Do you know if Dr. Cooley is continuing his studies? Is Dr. Cole continuing his ACell studies?

FTL

Sorry for the late reply. We are transitioning from ACell to AmnioFix. I believe Dr. Cooley is using AmnioFix as well.

From the MiMedx Website:

"Amniotic Membrane Description

Human amniotic membrane is comprised of the innermost layer of the placenta and lines the amniotic cavity. The membrane is composed of multiple layers including a single layer of epithelial cells, a basement membrane and an avascular connective tissue matrix. The tissues of the placenta present a very complex interrelationship of materials that possess numerous physiologic characteristics, that can in turn change in importance with the appropriate stage of gestation. During pregnancy, the placenta permits the passage of nutrients, metabolites and metabolic gases, and provides physical and immunological protection to the developing fetus. In addition, it produces a variety of steroids and important metabolic hormones.8

Amniotic membrane is a unique material and its composition contains collagen types I, III, IV, V, and VII. Amniotic membrane is composed of structural extracellular matrix (ECM), that also contains specialized proteins fibronectin, laminins, proteoglycans and glycosaminoglycans. In addition, amniotic membrane contains essential, active, healing growth factors such as epidermal growth factor (EGF), transforming growth factor beta (TGF-b), fibroblast growth factor (FGF), and platelet derived growth factor (PDGF).8 Amniotic tissues have shown little to no HLA-A, B, C antigens and β2 microglobulin.3"

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant 1070 Powers Place Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice. Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

[FearTheLoss]

Sorry for the late reply. We are transitioning from ACell to AmnioFix. I believe Dr. Cooley is using AmnioFix as well.

From the MiMedx Website:

"Amniotic Membrane Description

Human amniotic membrane is comprised of the innermost layer of the placenta and lines the amniotic cavity. The membrane is composed of multiple layers including a single layer of epithelial cells, a basement membrane and an avascular connective tissue matrix. The tissues of the placenta present a very complex interrelationship of materials that possess numerous physiologic characteristics, that can in turn change in importance with the appropriate stage of gestation. During pregnancy, the placenta permits the passage of nutrients, metabolites and metabolic gases, and provides physical and immunological protection to the developing fetus. In addition, it produces a variety of steroids and important metabolic hormones.8

Amniotic membrane is a unique material and its composition contains collagen types I, III, IV, V, and VII. Amniotic membrane is composed of structural extracellular matrix (ECM), that also contains specialized proteins fibronectin, laminins, proteoglycans and glycosaminoglycans. In addition, amniotic membrane contains essential, active, healing growth factors such as epidermal growth factor (EGF), transforming growth factor beta (TGF-b), fibroblast growth factor (FGF), and platelet derived growth factor (PDGF).8 Amniotic tissues have shown little to no HLA-A, B, C antigens and β2 microglobulin.3"

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant 1070 Powers Place Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice. Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

Thanks for the reply 35yr...it's good to know the research continues and we are using a more promising product now. I hope Dr. Wesley is looking into this and not just ACell as well.

[35YrsAfter]

Thanks for the reply 35yr...it's good to know the research continues and we are using a more promising product now. I hope Dr. Wesley is looking into this and not just ACell as well.

FYI:
Amniotic membrane-derived cells inhibit proliferation of cancer cell lines by inducing cell cycle arrest.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22260183

Should the most effective "cure" for androgenic alopecia end up being a form of stem cell therapy, amniotic membrane-derived cells could play a role in reducing or possibly eliminating the cancer risk.

Just to be clear... About the placenta from MedicineNet:

"Afterbirth: The placenta and fetal membranes that are expelled from the uterus following the baby's birth. Hence, the "afterbirth." The placenta is what joins the mother and fetus. It also permits the flow of oxygen and nutrients to the fetus besides the release of carbon dioxide and waste products from the fetus to the mother. As a uniquely disposable organ, the placenta is disk-shaped and at full term, measures about 7 inches (18 cm) in diameter and little under less than 2 inches (4 cm) thick. The fetal membranes - the chorion is the outer one and the amnion is the inner one - envelop the embryo and contain the amniotic fluid. The word "afterbirth" entered the English language in the 16th century."

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant 1070 Powers Place Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice. Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

[sdsurfin]

So you're gonna take all the follicles on the back of your head and put them on top, and then try to put new follicles into the removed areas on the back? Sounds pretty risky. Not sure any doc is going to be willing to do that until they have a pretty strong guarantee that whatever new follicles they are implanting are perfectly viable to grow. Not to mention that is a huge set of procedures. Way too much for me to care enough about doing. I would definitely leave the back of my head alone if they could implant all new follicles on top, but I really dont see that happening anytime in the next decade or two. eventually, yes it will probably will happen, but the hurdles are still immense. Dr. Xu isnt particularly negative, he's at the forefront of this stuff, and is one of the few people making brand new epithelial cells, and probably new DP cells from scratch. all that takes a ton of time and money though. Even Dr. Gardner said that once they crack the inductivity issues, there need to be co-therapies to keep the scalp healthy. So basically, another whole half of a cure that no one has even come close to figuring out yet. we have one half that still needs a ton of work and another that hasn't even really started. don't hold your breath.

[nameless]

So you're gonna take all the follicles on the back of your head and put them on top, and then try to put new follicles into the removed areas on the back? Sounds pretty risky. Not sure any doc is going to be willing to do that until they have a pretty strong guarantee that whatever new follicles they are implanting are perfectly viable to grow. Not to mention that is a huge set of procedures. Way too much for me to care enough about doing. I would definitely leave the back of my head alone if they could implant all new follicles on top, but I really dont see that happening anytime in the next decade or two. eventually, yes it will probably will happen, but the hurdles are still immense. Dr. Xu isnt particularly negative, he's at the forefront of this stuff, and is one of the few people making brand new epithelial cells, and probably new DP cells from scratch. all that takes a ton of time and money though. Even Dr. Gardner said that once they crack the inductivity issues, there need to be co-therapies to keep the scalp healthy. So basically, another whole half of a cure that no one has even come close to figuring out yet. we have one half that still needs a ton of work and another that hasn't even really started. don't hold your breath.

You're right and why are we even talking about this when all we have to do is re-create the treatment that was used in the adipose stem cell treatment AAPE study that we are all aware of? All we need to do is mix AAPE with the other ingredients that those researchers used and treat ourselves with it in the exact same method that those researchers used and we will all get back a good amount of hair. I don't understand why we are even talking about anything else.

[FearTheLoss]

So you're gonna take all the follicles on the back of your head and put them on top, and then try to put new follicles into the removed areas on the back? Sounds pretty risky. Not sure any doc is going to be willing to do that until they have a pretty strong guarantee that whatever new follicles they are implanting are perfectly viable to grow. Not to mention that is a huge set of procedures. Way too much for me to care enough about doing. I would definitely leave the back of my head alone if they could implant all new follicles on top, but I really dont see that happening anytime in the next decade or two. eventually, yes it will probably will happen, but the hurdles are still immense. Dr. Xu isnt particularly negative, he's at the forefront of this stuff, and is one of the few people making brand new epithelial cells, and probably new DP cells from scratch. all that takes a ton of time and money though. Even Dr. Gardner said that once they crack the inductivity issues, there need to be co-therapies to keep the scalp healthy. So basically, another whole half of a cure that no one has even come close to figuring out yet. we have one half that still needs a ton of work and another that hasn't even really started. don't hold your breath.

Why don't you take your negative attitude and go sit in a hole. Seriously why do you even come to the forum? You contribute nothing but negativity. Yeah, we are probably about 10 years or so from having this sort of cure on the market, but it's going to come and science is advancing rapidly. Relax

[sdsurfin]

It's not about being negative. I'm just laying down the realness. I think most guys on here who are under 25 are probably going to be able to do a lot about their hair, and maybe see something really approaching a full cure. For people over 30 it's probably going to come once we're too old and crusty to care. I could certainly be wrong, but I'm just trying to shed some perspective on everything that has been reported- most of the people on here can't put two sentences together, never mind understand what these researchers are up to. I applaud Desmond, the dude has obvious charisma and positivity. that's much more important than hair. But it's helpful to understand where we're actually at in order to know how best to help the process. I'm getting pretty frustrated with Dr. Xu's lack of reply vis a vis the crowdfunding possibility. Anxiously awaiting the news about Lauster's team, though I'm keeping my expectations low. If they are really the most advanced, we should get behind them. more money always helps, and I do trust german engineering, that country is solid when it comes to a lot of things.

[sascha]

FearTheLoss thumps up to you man.
And sdsurfin what makes you think you understood more than e.g I did?
Do you know where we are at? I am pumped to hear it than, please tell me
Wasn´t there a huge controversity about the approach of Xu and other researchers anyway?

[Arashi]

So, today is the day Desmond will post about Lauster !!! Can't wait !!!

[Aik82]

It's not about being negative. I'm just laying down the realness. I think most guys on here who are under 25 are probably going to be able to do a lot about their hair, and maybe see something really approaching a full cure. For people over 30 it's probably going to come once we're too old and crusty to care. I could certainly be wrong, but I'm just trying to shed some perspective on everything that has been reported- most of the people on here can't put two sentences together, never mind understand what these researchers are up to. I applaud Desmond, the dude has obvious charisma and positivity. that's much more important than hair. But it's helpful to understand where we're actually at in order to know how best to help the process. I'm getting pretty frustrated with Dr. Xu's lack of reply vis a vis the crowdfunding possibility. Anxiously awaiting the news about Lauster's team, though I'm keeping my expectations low. If they are really the most advanced, we should get behind them. more money always helps, and I do trust german engineering, that country is solid when it comes to a lot of things.

I agree with you. As I said to Hellouser sometime a go after reading and watching first news coming from Korea: most of us will be bald when and if something real comes out. Let's hope we are wrong.

[Arashi]

Soooo desmond ... Lauster stuff ready ?

Actually it's thursday morning 5:22 AM, hopefully everything is ok and Desmond is going to post his stuff today instead of yesterday ...