WCHR 2014 Presentations (Community-funded)

[35YrsAfter]

Hi guys,

So as promised here's the first video. Since Dr Cotsarelis has so much following, I thought I'll upload his presentation first. So here you go Many more videos to follow in the coming days.


Dr George Cotsarelis: Advances in Understanding Androgenetic Alopecia

Thank you for posting this. It's very encouraging. It's great to see technology and expertise put to good use picking apart the mechanics of this dreaded affliction. We can read about things like this all day long, but nothing beats a good live PowerPoint presentation.

I believe it's important that the researchers responsible for a major breakthrough down the road are appropriately compensated. I hope these people are protecting themselves from anyone with a copycat mindset attempting to cash in on their research.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

[Thinning87]

Yeah Cots definitely didn't want to talk me LOL...all good though. I got to ask some key questions

What's your take on Follica after the presentation Desmond? I mean, no mention at all about wounding... And a very small mention to fgf5.

I guess he may have gone there to represent the university not the company. But still...

He didn't happen to mention fgf9 or anything related to the June 2013 news?

[35YrsAfter]

What's your take on Follica after the presentation Desmond? I mean, no mention at all about wounding... And a very small mention to fgf5.
He didn't happen to mention fgf9 or anything related to the June 2013 news?

When you think about it, not mentioning something may indicate something proprietary kept under wraps.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

[hellouser]

When you think about it, not mentioning something may indicate something proprietary kept under wraps.

Just like Dr. Lauster's team for 3+ years.

[Sogeking]

Hi Desmond, glad you you are back and okay. One thing I would like to mention. Dr. Gardner said:

A:
I'm not sure. The majority of studies use epithelial cells that are very receptive to follicle induction i.e. mouse or human neonatal epithelial cells. We are attempting to use adult human only cells, but this is "healthy" tissue. As far as I know there are no groups using alopecia scalp tissue to test for inductivity. Speculating, I would assume if an inductive enough construct was created that the initial follicle would form. However, as this isn't treating the underlying causes of the various alopecias I would assume the follicle would then degrade as the previously, perhaps even at a faster rate due to the loss of fatty tissue in the scalp.

So basically I see that you are optimistic about one team breaking the barrier and inducing the cells into a hair follicle, but those same follicles might still fall prey to DHT and degrade.
Aren't we limited by that? I mean that is why everyone is excited about Follica because they were trying to find the underlying causes.

Even if we manage to culture new hair follicles and transplant them it would still mean we would be relaint on Minox and Fin.

[hellouser]

Hi Desmond, glad you you are back and okay. One thing I would like to mention. Dr. Gardner said:


So basically I see that you are optimistic about one team breaking the barrier and inducing the cells into a hair follicle, but those same follicles might still fall prey to DHT and degrade.
Aren't we limited by that? I mean that is why everyone is excited about Follica because they were trying to find the underlying causes.

Even if we manage to culture new hair follicles and transplant them it would still mean we would be relaint on Minox and Fin.

This doesn't explain why hair transplants work.

[CAlex]

Glad you got back safely Desmond. Hope you enjoyed the trip.

The problem we run into is the trials IMO. All these teams(according to what you've said) are making much more progress than we previously thought. The frustrations come from once a method is being transitioned from theory to trials.

It seems every single team we know about ends up hitting year or longer setbacks between each phase of trials due to financial issues, poor planning, and so on.

maybe one of these teams does solve this puzzle withing the next 3-4 years but its the trials that MUST follow that take FOREVER and often produce results that are not worth pursuing passed phase 2 and or attract investors to aid in funding the trials.

In my opinion the minimum we need one of these teams to achieve is along the lines(delivery wise) of histogen. An inject-able treatment. Being able to endlessly produce follicles in a lab is just an HT on steroids. HT'S are garbage IMO. They will NEVER look natural. It might help some guys, but in terms of really conquering this nightmare, its just not going to change anything.

hopefully one of these teams is working on an injectable. Its the next best thing aside from some distant cellular treatment.

[hellouser]

Glad you got back safely Desmond. Hope you enjoyed the trip.

The problem we run into is the trials IMO. All these teams(according to what you've said) are making much more progress than we previously thought. The frustrations come from once a method is being transitioned from theory to trials.

It seems every single team we know about ends up hitting year or longer setbacks between each phase of trials due to financial issues, poor planning, and so on.

maybe one of these teams does solve this puzzle withing the next 3-4 years but its the trials that MUST follow that take FOREVER and often produce results that are not worth pursuing passed phase 2 and or attract investors to aid in funding the trials.

In my opinion the minimum we need one of these teams to achieve is along the lines(delivery wise) of histogen. An inject-able treatment. Being able to endlessly produce follicles in a lab is just an HT on steroids. HT'S are garbage IMO. They will NEVER look natural. It might help some guys, but in terms of really conquering this nightmare, its just not going to cut it.

Once a team does crack it, every single last one of us needs to go absolute batshit crazy with pushing a crowdfunding campaign and supply the research team with all the funding they would ever need to roll out the trials in the absolute fastest time possible.

We could start crowdfunding now, but we'd be shooting in the dark. I think what should happen is an organized effort in PLANNING a crowdfunding campaign and having it ready to be proposed to any one of the research teams as a financial boost. The next hair congress is next year in November in Miami, giving us a year and a half to finalize all the details of such a campaign as well as have all the creative materials finished for promoting and marketing our initiative. I'm planning on attending the congress next year, I have every intention of convincing the most suitable team for a joint effort in ending our misery with hair loss FAST.

As it stands, I would only consider a research team to join our effort if they complied to run the trials in a less regulated jurisdiction like Japan for an even faster release; no more of this 'within 5 years' bullshit; let's make it actually happen for once.

[Haircure]

I know this may be a long shot, but maybe there is someway we can organize general funds for a hairloss treatment and once we get some decent amount of funding and advertising we can have potential teams to which we can transfer the money to. So we could maybe try and play the investor by using the crowd funding medium. That way the researchers/teams could pitch their ideas to us rather than the alternative.

Besides my crazy idea above, I think if we want a treatment available faster, maybe we should focus on a treatment that can go into clinical trials the earliest and hope it works out (excluding follica, because at this point we don't have much info at where they stand,and the offer by Cots seems kinda fishy)

[agardner]

Hi Desmond, glad you you are back and okay. One thing I would like to mention. Dr. Gardner said:


So basically I see that you are optimistic about one team breaking the barrier and inducing the cells into a hair follicle, but those same follicles might still fall prey to DHT and degrade.
Aren't we limited by that? I mean that is why everyone is excited about Follica because they were trying to find the underlying causes.

Even if we manage to culture new hair follicles and transplant them it would still mean we would be relaint on Minox and Fin.

This doesn't explain why hair transplants work.

Hair transplants use follicles from "resistant" zones and often incorporate tissues from that area as well including fatty tissue.

As it stands our models don't incorporate this supportive tissue and so I'm not sure how well they will fare in a bald scalp. Also since expansion in 2D results in a loss of DP inductivity it is also possible that "resistance" to degradation is also lost. But until the clinical trial using spheroids reports then everything is guesswork.

[sdsurfin]

Hair transplants use follicles from "resistant" zones and often incorporate tissues from that area as well including fatty tissue.

As it stands our models don't incorporate this supportive tissue and so I'm not sure how well they will fare in a bald scalp. Also since expansion in 2D results in a loss of DP inductivity it is also possible that "resistance" to degradation is also lost. But until the clinical trial using spheroids reports then everything is guesswork.

Is it possible to culture DP cells in a 2D environment that is also filled with native fat cells, and thus their accompanying chemical signals? I understand that isolating the cell types, culturing them, and bringing them back together gives a window into their individual nature, but perhaps expanding all of them at the same time in the same place, and then putting the whole mix into hanging drops would maintain a more steady level of chemical correspondence and make the cells feel less "lost". why not expand DP, DS, and epithelial cells all together in the same place and then put them in a cozy environment together There is clearly an immediate disconnect from feeling at home when DP cells are isolated, and maybe there's no workaround to a constant maintenance of the chemical "chatter" that goes on between all the cell types. Instead of trying to restore gene expression, why not focus more on trying to maintain it even in the 2D expansion? Seems like once something is forgotten by the cell, it might be futile to try to teach it again.

[agardner]

Is it possible to culture DP cells in a 2D environment that is also filled with native fat cells, and thus their accompanying chemical signals? I understand that isolating the cell types, culturing them, and bringing them back together gives a window into their individual nature, but perhaps expanding all of them at the same time in the same place, and then putting the whole mix into hanging drops would maintain a more steady level of chemical correspondence and make the cells feel less "lost". why not expand DP, DS, and epithelial cells all together in the same place and then put them in a cozy environment together There is clearly an immediate disconnect from feeling at home when DP cells are isolated, and maybe there's no workaround to a constant maintenance of the chemical "chatter" that goes on between all the cell types. Instead of trying to restore gene expression, why not focus more on trying to maintain it even in the 2D expansion? Seems like once something is forgotten by the cell, it might be futile to try to teach it again.

It is very difficult to expand cells in culture together, for example any sort of fatty tissue present in a 2D culture strongly inhibits proliferation of dermal (DP, DS and DF) or epidermal (keratinocytes and outer root sheath) cells. Dermal/epidermal co-cultures are more feasible and it's something we're working with before making the cells into 3D models.

In 3D these co-cultures are fine as none of the cells are proliferating so we can control the ratios of cells to keep them happier.

[Aik82]

Once a team does crack it, every single last one of us needs to go absolute batshit crazy with pushing a crowdfunding campaign and supply the research team with all the funding they would ever need to roll out the trials in the absolute fastest time possible.

We could start crowdfunding now, but we'd be shooting in the dark. I think what should happen is an organized effort in PLANNING a crowdfunding campaign and having it ready to be proposed to any one of the research teams as a financial boost. The next hair congress is next year in November in Miami, giving us a year and a half to finalize all the details of such a campaign as well as have all the creative materials finished for promoting and marketing our initiative. I'm planning on attending the congress next year, I have every intention of convincing the most suitable team for a joint effort in ending our misery with hair loss FAST.

As it stands, I would only consider a research team to join our effort if they complied to run the trials in a less regulated jurisdiction like Japan for an even faster release; no more of this 'within 5 years' bullshit; let's make it actually happen for once.

I agree with you Hellouser.

[Tomb10]

During these presentations, you will notice that many of them are getting great results in terms of restoring hair inductivity in the early passages of DP culturing. Not so much in the latter passages. SO I actually asked them if that is a problem and would they have enough DP produced with these early passages to completely restore a bald scalp. The answer was: "the number of DP cells cultured in these early passages is sufficient to restore hairs on a scalp who is above NW6 and even maybe NW7!"


Desmond, what do you mean with passages?

[Desmond84]

Hey guys,

Here's Dr Rei Ogawa's presentation A fascinating lecture but a little bit graphic. If you couldnt put up with it just skip ahead. The first half of his presentation is just talking about what Mechanotherapy is! The second half is about how it would be effective in hair regeneration! I really liked this presentation..it was way out from the left field and if he is onto something it may become available way sooner than other therapies as medical devices do not undergo a 3 phase trial like medicines do which is great for us

Enjoy and please leave feedback