WCHR 2014 Presentations (Community-funded)

[nameless]

Yeah, he is right in the sense that, no timeline is good, someone is going to crack it one day, and money talks, things are going to move fast after that

Hellouser just has a vendetta against the FDA for some reason, when no single hair loss treatment in the last 30 years has gotten to Phase III, the Phase he claims is slowing things.

The FDA is taking too long.

Lots of people are complaining about the FDA's slow pace, not just Hellouser.

There's actually a charity that you can donate to who's sole function is to lobby the congress, senate, and President to do something about the long delays fostered by the FDA.

[hellouser]

And without the FDA, early adopters (such as people here) would be the first to complain about side effects.

What is your reason then to support an arbitrary number of years to prove safety? What does 15 years of trials tell you that 5 years doesn't?

[bigentries]

And without the FDA, early adopters (such as people here) would be the first to complain about side effects.

Obviously.

I'm not American, I remember reading as a child back then in my home country how an American companies did "clinical trials" that ended up horribly bad there, and the affected demanded "American regulations" to be applied too.

I don't know how "unregulated" people want trials to be, but I wonder if they weight the possible consequences. This isn't a lethal disease, a cure can take as long as they need if they will deliver it safely.

[hgs1989]

But that's not the point because all of us seem to be fixated on the notion that treatments can only be done in USA. There are 193 other independent countries outside of USA. I'm sure there are some that would allow research teams as well as biotechs move at a faster pace. Any trials done in USA are going to be financial suicide.

it would be great if they offer it in a less regulated country. here is downside:

1. they haven't even finished their work in the lab. think of any scientific breakthrough. look how far it took to move from the lab to the public.

2. their will to do it.you think about it because you want it, but they most likely don't share it with you.

3. if they did it you would not trust them any way. think Nigam. think fat stem cells. the science behind is strong. only one clinic does it and I didn't find any thread on Baldturth.also, I have seen many are willing to pay for chemicals fro untrusted online providers just because those chemicals are in FDA trials, yet you hesitate in buying any available commercial product that didn't go through it even if the ingredients are scientifically proven to work to some extent.

4. it would be too costly to do it in another country. there is a treatment in south korea similar to histogen(a ****tail of growth factors) and is available NOW. there is a paper talking about it I posted a link to it in a thread called AAPE. the results looks amazing . downside is that it requires multiple sessions at close intervals,I guess 2 weeks or so. cloning might be a one time treatment but still points 1,2,3 applies and it will be some how more costly than in a country you live in. not to mention its initial costs will be high.

5. having FDA approval will get them legal access in many countries that follows the FDA. so why stay in one country with limited access to the wealthy while you can reach the masses.

6.finally, the FDA is a reality and all the above applies to any hair loss treatment.

any how it is not feasible to discuss cloning even if you are in your 20's . Desmond seams to think it is coming in 2020. lets hear what he heard from the interviews. but I don't think it is happening that soon.

[hgs1989]

Obviously.

I'm not American, I remember reading as a child back then in my home country how an American companies did "clinical trials" that ended up horribly bad there, and the affected demanded "American regulations" to be applied too.

I don't know how "unregulated" people want trials to be, but I wonder if they weight the possible consequences. This isn't a lethal disease, a cure can take as long as they need if they will deliver it safely.

exactly. imagine if curis released their product with the SHH stuff. people will have cancers by now.

[hellouser]

Obviously.

I'm not American, I remember reading as a child back then in my home country how an American companies did "clinical trials" that ended up horribly bad there, and the affected demanded "American regulations" to be applied too.

I don't know how "unregulated" people want trials to be, but I wonder if they weight the possible consequences. This isn't a lethal disease, a cure can take as long as they need if they will deliver it safely.

Most of us aren't crazy to just go for a treatment without any trials. I've mentioned it a number of times that I'd like to see at the very least a safety trial done (though I know you have a selective memory given past accusations against me that fell flat when you had no evidence to support your arguments).

However, the problem with the FDA (and you) is that you believe that finding out safety can only be verified by making up a random number for the years required to run through trials and stall use of it through delays, delays, delays.

But thats the problem... you can't tell safety unless people actually USE IT. And then use it in greater numbers beyond the clinical trials.

[bigentries]

Most of us aren't crazy to just go for a treatment without any trials. I've mentioned it a number of times that I'd like to see at the very least a safety trial done (though I know you have a selective memory given past accusations against me that fell flat when you had no evidence to support your arguments).

However, the problem with the FDA (and you) is that you believe that finding out safety can only be verified by making up a random number for the years required to run through trials and stall use of it through delays, delays, delays.

But thats the problem... you can't tell safety unless people actually USE IT.

Chill out dude, I wonder if you really use that tone in the real world

What are your options? Which country? Which agency?

You keep talking trash about the FDA and a magical country and agency out there that is better, but where are them? what are the options? have you talked about them to people who are knowledgable about clinical trials? Why do they still keep on doing the trials with the FDA?

This isn't about a "random number of years", where are you getting that info? As far as I know the FDA doesn't place a hard number concerning the length of a trial

Anyway dude, you still can contact me if you want, if you need to vent something

[hellouser]

Chill out dude, I wonder if you really use that tone in the real world

You've been told in public and private numerous times.

What are your options? Which country? Which agency?

I don't have the answers, that's why I'm discussing it right now.

You keep talking trash about the FDA and a magical country and agency out there that is better, but where are them? what are the options? have you talked about them to people who are knowledgable about clinical trials? Why do they still keep on doing the trials with the FDA?

Likely because many, or damn near all the Biotechs are American anyway.

This isn't about a "random number of years", where are you getting that info? As far as I know the FDA doesn't place a hard number concerning the length of a trial

Then I'll ask again; what does 15 years of trials tell you that 5 years doesn't?

Anyway dude, you still can contact me if you want, if you need to vent something

See above.

[BoSox]

If a cure isn't coming out in the near future, can we at least get better hair systems? FFS.

[Arashi]

Guys, can you please take the whole FDA discussion to another thread ? We finally have a scientist here (and not just 'a scientist', Aaron Gardner from Jahoda's team !) willing to answer questions regarding the science, please let's focus on that. Thanks !

[bigentries]

OK, I think Arashi's suggestion is worth it

If a cure isn't coming out in the near future, can we at least get better hair systems? FFS.

A lot of hair systems already look amazing

But they still have the stigma, they can looks as natural as your original hair, but you are screwed the moment someone finds out you are wearing a wig

We need bald stars to embrace them to remove the stigma

[hgs1989]

If a cure isn't coming out in the near future, can we at least get better hair systems? FFS.

synthetic is there.

[hellouser]

Desmond mentioned I'll be creating an infographic on everything hair loss related which could be used for a crowdfunding initiative should there be enough people that aren't naysayers willing to achieve our goal ourselves.

Any chance someone could explain to me how Dr. Jahoda's team creates follicles vs. other teams in such BASIC terms that even a grade schooler could understand? This would benefit the forum too as I'm sure others are pretty lost too.

Thanks.

[walrus]

Guys, can you please take the whole FDA discussion to another thread ? We finally have a scientist here (and not just 'a scientist', Aaron Gardner from Jahoda's team !) willing to answer questions regarding the science, please let's focus on that. Thanks !

Agreed, FDA bashing should be taken up elsewhere.

[joachim]

wow, that's great, Dr. Gardner.
it's invaluable to have one of the cutting edge researchers here. thanks for taking the time.
before the thread gets out of control, maybe we can set up a separate question&answer thread to post the questions in a well sorted way.
i also have some questions on my list which often appear in forums and are often discussed, but we never had the chance to get them really answered.

if Dr. Gardner is willing to take some time and hang around with us here, then let's take that chance to clarify all the necessary questions, once and for all. maybe we can create a factsheet then, or something like a FAQ. i think hellouser would also appreciate this to get his infographic some steps forward.