WCHR 2014 Presentations (Community-funded)

[Artha]

What about the recorded video?

[Haircure]

I love what you've done Desmond but some of what you're saying seems somewhat contradictory. Let me explain why:


First I think you said that Cotseralis said $2 million could get a treatment to market that is better than minoxidil/Propecia. Then I think you said the treatment he was referring to has completed phase 2 so it would only have to undergo a phase 3. Then you said that Cotseralis appears to have walked away from wounding therapy. I think that these 3 statements seem to contradict each other because I think his only therapy that could have already completed phase 2 is his wounding therapy. He only recently came out with his info about FGF9 and PGD2 so he can't possibly have reached phase 2 with either of them yet, plus it's unlikely he knows for certain how effective a PGD2 based treatment or an FGF9 based treatment would be so I really don't think he was referring to either of them as his treatment that would be better than minoxidil/propecia but would not turn a bald man into a NW1. I think that most likely his treatment that has completed phase 2 is likely his wounding treatment but it could also be something that he has never talked about before, however, I think it's highly doubtful that the treatment he has (that's better than minox/propecia) is either PGD2 related or FGF9 related because neither of these treatments have had the time to complete phase 2 for hair growth yet.

Didn't Desmond say that whatever the researchers presented was at least 10-12 months old work? So how is it hard to believe that they did his wounding therapy, FGF9 and PGD2 a while back? It makes sense now those research papers he published are done months after and even possibly years after the initial results, trials and findings. That and the take home message from the start was that Follica is a very secretive company so it would be safe to assume that whatever cots has published via research article has already seen some form of trial. And lastly the treatment that was promised I believe was light skin perturbation via peeling the scalp in order to prime it for applying the growth factor FGF9 and or a PGD2 inhibitor. If I'm not mistaken these substances are know to the FDA so who is to say they haven't trialled it already?

[joachim]

If they find it in the next 2 years, we'll be able to get it in asia or africa, or somewhere, in the next 5 years-- if not sooner.

When you're talking about picking up the phone and making an appointment in the US, thats 10 years away.

5 years or sooner only if the researcher groups are willing to enable earlier treatments in unregulated countries, meaning they reveal their IP and know how. i wouldn't bet on this. i have a feeling that the germans wouldn't like to risk their image if they release it earlier and something goes wrong then. i believe the germans will go the normal conservative way...

[nameless]

If they find it in the next 2 years, we'll be able to get it in asia or africa, or somewhere, in the next 5 years-- if not sooner.

When you're talking about picking up the phone and making an appointment in the US, thats 10 years away.

Yea but according to you the cure for hair loss is Pilox and it will be on the market in a few months. LOL!

[Armandein]

Thank you to all for the interest in discover the truht of hair loss

[NeedHairASAP]

If they find it in the next 2 years, we'll be able to get it in asia or africa, or somewhere, in the next 5 years-- if not sooner.

When you're talking about picking up the phone and making an appointment in the US, thats 10 years away.

[NeedHairASAP]

so true.

the funny thing about it is: the researching teams let it look like it's a big race and everyone is trying to be the first on the market. that's ridiculous considering the 10+++ year timelines.

it's just sad, sad, sad. prepare yourself for a bald life. i'm going to shave my head within the next weeks. daydreaming about the big milestone, how they grow new hair on bald scalp, is just making me sick =}
time for a new chapter in life: the bald truth

The ten year timeline is the point at which you can pick up your phone, call a treatment center, set an appointment for next week and walk out with a full head of hair-- aka the treatment has passed FDA approval.

There is very much a race to a viable, trial-able, solution. That will be determined in the next 2 years.

My guess is whoever finds the solution will go through FDA trials, and will also offer it much much sooner somewhere else-- once he or she feels the treatment is reasonable safe.

[walrus]

forget about wounding completely is the conclusion here. fgf9 is lightyears away and will be rendered useless once tsuji or lauster or jahoda has the solution.

in the end, in 10 years when a cure is out he will tell that his fundamental research milestones has lead to this. in 1 or 2 years you will read another headline in the news with a breakthrough from him but not practically usable at all. remember my words. Cots is over. forget about follica completely is my advice, if Cots is not even interested in anything.
even nigam will come up with a better treatment than cots one day.

The armchair scientists/fortune tellers are out in force.

[joachim]

so true.

the funny thing about it is: the researching teams let it look like it's a big race and everyone is trying to be the first on the market. that's ridiculous considering the 10+++ year timelines.

it's just sad, sad, sad. prepare yourself for a bald life. i'm going to shave my head within the next weeks. daydreaming about the big milestone, how they grow new hair on bald scalp, is just making me sick =}
time for a new chapter in life: the bald truth

[nameless]

Hey guys,

I just skimmed through the discussions. Tbh the vibe I got from Dr Cotsarelis is that the wounding trials and whatever was being used in conjunction to it was not sufficient to produce consistent hair regrowth. He also kept his distance throughout the conference and really didn't wanna talk to me about any of this stuff. I personally walked away feeling Follica is not something we should be focusing on so much anymore. Furthermore, Dr Cotsarelis himself hardly mentioned anything about the effects of wounding on hair regeneration even though he had 3 presentations total of 2 hours! He spent most of the time discussing PGD2 and fgf9. So I think even he has kind of moved on.

I am really excited about the work coming out of Germany. They're definitely onto something and are keeping it hush hush.

Dr Jahodas team was also very keen on finding out what other labs have achieved and in almost every single presentation regarding culturing DP cells they got up and asked several questions about the work being presented. They were also taking lots of photos of the slides and data being presented.

Another thing I also realised was what gets presented at these congresses is the work they completed at least 12-18 months ago! Most of these teams are well beyond what they are presenting! They never mention anything about unpublished work for obvious patent issues I suppose.

So I don't think ppl should be so pessimistic. One thing I realised this week was that they guard their work like a top secret KGB file. They avoid any question outside of what got presented and simply give a generic answer like "that's where we will be looking at next" or "that is a very good question! <giggles>" and every one has a laugh! It was quite intriguing actually.

That's why I think we should take into account that what they claim they have achieved is old news inside their labs and one can only imagine how much further they actually may be!

Dr Cotsarelis is also a very big figure in the world of hair and just asking for a moment of his time is such a big deal. Believe me. It took me several attempts and lots of charm to get 5 minutes with him. So I doubt he would ever get back to us if we email him.

Hope that helps guys. Cheers

I love what you've done Desmond but some of what you're saying seems somewhat contradictory. Let me explain why:


First I think you said that Cotseralis said $2 million could get a treatment to market that is better than minoxidil/Propecia. Then I think you said the treatment he was referring to has completed phase 2 so it would only have to undergo a phase 3. Then you said that Cotseralis appears to have walked away from wounding therapy. I think that these 3 statements seem to contradict each other because I think his only therapy that could have already completed phase 2 is his wounding therapy. He only recently came out with his info about FGF9 and PGD2 so he can't possibly have reached phase 2 with either of them yet, plus it's unlikely he knows for certain how effective a PGD2 based treatment or an FGF9 based treatment would be so I really don't think he was referring to either of them as his treatment that would be better than minoxidil/propecia but would not turn a bald man into a NW1. I think that most likely his treatment that has completed phase 2 is likely his wounding treatment but it could also be something that he has never talked about before, however, I think it's highly doubtful that the treatment he has (that's better than minox/propecia) is either PGD2 related or FGF9 related because neither of these treatments have had the time to complete phase 2 for hair growth yet.

You might be right that he won't communicate with us but I still think we should try. I think we should try to find out what treatment he is referring to that has completed phase 2 and would require only $2 million to finish off the phase 3 and bring to market.

I can't reconcile all the information you have about Cotseralis and IMHO that means we should try to get more info from him via email before we conclude to completely forget about him. He may be our best chance at a bridge between our situation now and the 10 long years when a real cure will finally come to market. I think we should try to get more information about what his $2 million treatment is that has already completed phase 2.

[Scientalk56]

i would really like to hear from jahoda his explanation of what puzzle is still missing. he did the hair experiment on the arm a few years ago already. and i think he's more open than other guys. do we have a way to contact him?
@ hellouser: as you are working on the info graphic (hairloss roadmap or however you call it) maybe it would be a good reason for a talk with jahoda, if you somehow find a way to contact him. letting him know that you're working on a graphic to raise awareness and so on.
i have a feeling jahoda would be willing to give out some info this way.

We're not going to have a better treatment in 10 years.. sadly
but there's nothing we can do.

[Thinning@30]

Hi Desmond,

Did you attend the presentation on Burning Scalp Syndrome? How was it? If you can share anything with the forum that would be great. Thanks again for attending the congress and keeping us all in the loop about everything!

[john2399]

forget about wounding completely is the conclusion here. fgf9 is lightyears away and will be rendered useless once tsuji or lauster or jahoda has the solution.

in the end, in 10 years when a cure is out he will tell that his fundamental research milestones has lead to this. in 1 or 2 years you will read another headline in the news with a breakthrough from him but not practically usable at all. remember my words. Cots is over. forget about follica completely is my advice, if Cots is not even interested in anything.
even nigam will come up with a better treatment than cots one day.

lauster, jahoda, or tsuji, that's the question now. i can't wait to here the exact details from desmond, where lauster stands. did they ever created an exact hair duplicate or what's holding them back??? this question is crucial. unless we don't see a lab grown sprouting hair on a human scalp it's all theoretical BS only and can mean everthing and nothing. they should show us what they have. man, they are anyway protected by patents i assume. would be insane otherwise.

Lol, Follica is over after one little 5 min interview, in which Dr.Cots could have been hesitant to actually say anything.

[joachim]

i would really like to hear from jahoda his explanation of what puzzle is still missing. he did the hair experiment on the arm a few years ago already. and i think he's more open than other guys. do we have a way to contact him?
@ hellouser: as you are working on the info graphic (hairloss roadmap or however you call it) maybe it would be a good reason for a talk with jahoda, if you somehow find a way to contact him. letting him know that you're working on a graphic to raise awareness and so on.
i have a feeling jahoda would be willing to give out some info this way.

[joachim]

forget about wounding completely is the conclusion here. fgf9 is lightyears away and will be rendered useless once tsuji or lauster or jahoda has the solution.

in the end, in 10 years when a cure is out he will tell that his fundamental research milestones has lead to this. in 1 or 2 years you will read another headline in the news with a breakthrough from him but not practically usable at all. remember my words. Cots is over. forget about follica completely is my advice, if Cots is not even interested in anything.
even nigam will come up with a better treatment than cots one day.

lauster, jahoda, or tsuji, that's the question now. i can't wait to here the exact details from desmond, where lauster stands. did they ever created an exact hair duplicate or what's holding them back??? this question is crucial. unless we don't see a lab grown sprouting hair on a human scalp it's all theoretical BS only and can mean everthing and nothing. they should show us what they have. man, they are anyway protected by patents i assume. would be insane otherwise.