WCHR 2014 Presentations (Community-funded)

[nameless]

We always knew that a 'preclinical' cure has to through clinical trials and may take 6-8 years. But we're not even at the point of a 'preclinical' cure yet. I figured we were very close: Tsuji and Jahoda showed us that a combination of DP cells + epethelial cells grows hairs. Now like Desmond noted a few pages back, pretty much all research groups succeeded this year where Jahoda failed last year: keeping all genes expressed while culturing DP cells. So, I figure now, what's keeping us from a cure ? Desmond asked that exact same question to Lauster's group and posted a few pages back that he will explain it once he gets the green light from Lauster's group. Desmond also said that we're VERY close. That's all that matters in my opinion.

Once we have a preclinical cure (a success of cloning hair on a human test candidate), then we can start planning our future: the bridging period. Cause right now I don't dare to take much more grafts from my donor. Once I know that it's pretty certain a treatment in the clinics will be available in 6-8 years, I'm going to deplete my donor and fill up everything. So that's why all this is important in my opinion: an understanding where we are, so we can plan our futures.

So then this shows that all of your ideas about how doctors who will give it to us early is really just talk and your real plan is to accept the 8 year delay.

[JZA70]

A hair follicle is a complex organ. Its not like they just have to make one and call it a day, they have to be able to make thousands for every single person that walks through the door.

People who don't suffer from hair loss have no idea how bad it is. We will always be at the bottom of the totem pole for actual cures. Like Hellouser has mentioned, there's tons of advertising for breast cancer with stickers and t shirts and runs and so on, but no one gives a shit hair loss sufferers. We're supposed to rub on Rogaine on our head and move on with life.

[nameless]

We always knew that a 'preclinical' cure has to go through clinical trials which may take 6-8 years. But we're not even at the point of a 'preclinical' cure yet. I figured we were very close: Tsuji and Jahoda showed us that a combination of DP cells + epethelial cells grows hairs. Now like Desmond noted a few pages back, pretty much all research groups succeeded this year where Jahoda failed last year: keeping all genes expressed while culturing DP cells. So, I figure now, what's keeping us from a cure ? Desmond asked that exact same question to Lauster's group and posted a few pages back that he will explain it once he gets the green light from Lauster's group. Desmond also said that we're VERY close. That's all that matters in my opinion.

Once we have a preclinical cure (a success of cloning hair on a human test candidate), then we can start planning our future: the bridging period. Cause right now I don't dare to take much more grafts from my donor. Once I know that it's pretty certain a treatment in the clinics will be available in 6-8 years, I'm going to deplete my donor and fill up everything. So that's why all this is important in my opinion: an understanding where we are, so we can plan our futures.

And once you move all your hair around all over your head those cells they inject 8 years later might not work so well because you will have disrupted your scalp so much.

[joachim]

We always knew that a 'preclinical' cure has to through clinical trials and may take 6-8 years. But we're not even at the point of a 'preclinical' cure yet. I figured we were very close: Tsuji and Jahoda showed us that a combination of DP cells + epethelial cells grows hairs. Now like Desmond noted a few pages back, pretty much all research groups succeeded this year where Jahoda failed last year: keeping all genes expressed while culturing DP cells. So, I figure now, what's keeping us from a cure ? Desmond asked that exact same question to Lauster's group and posted a few pages back that he will explain it once he gets the green light from Lauster's group. Desmond also said that we're VERY close. That's all that matters in my opinion.

Once we have a preclinical cure (a success of cloning hair on a human test candidate), then we can start planning our future: the bridging period. Cause right now I don't dare to take much more grafts from my donor. Once I know that it's pretty certain a treatment in the clinics will be available in 6-8 years, I'm going to deplete my donor and fill up everything. So that's why all this is important in my opinion: an understanding where we are, so we can plan our futures.

well said. you're right. it's important to know that there definitely will be a cure, so that we can plan further steps. pilofocus will maybe bring some semi-cure if we are able to take 5000+ grafts from the donor, or even more if we are willing to get SMP for the donor.

[Arashi]

And once you move all your hair around all over your head those cells they inject 8 years later might not work so well because you will have disrupted your scalp so much.

That's nonsense. We already know that you can add more hair to existing transplanted area's. Tons of guys have that done. Why would that be any different with cloned hair ? Only in some cases where you went to a bad doctor who caused a lot of scarring, it might become difficult. But even then, not impossible at all.

[joachim]

i hope desmond has asked cots for his email address for a possible follow up.
we have to know if the wounding with lithium is worth the money or not.

because i still don't get it: they claim they are able to consistently produce NEW hairs, and on the other side cots is saying the 2 million would bring a treatment but not a full head of hair.
like hellouser often stated already: why not go multiple times for a treatment? even if the natural density can't be reached with this method but still gives a good 40 to 50 grafts per cm2 then this is definitely a good point to start with.

so it's a little bit fishy how cots argues. i think it would be crucial now to stay in contact with cots and see what they are talking about. they have to give us insight in their results and if they are really able to consistently create hairs, it can be a game changer indeed.
even if it has to be combined with normal HTs to create more density, it would be fantastic.

i would love to see what the wounding is all about... the instruments, the procedure, the results, the limitations. it's time for some answers now.

[nameless]

i hope desmond has asked cots for his email address for a possible follow up.
we have to know if the wounding with lithium is worth the money or not.

because i still don't get it: they claim they are able to consistently produce NEW hairs, and on the other side cots is saying the 2 million would bring a treatment but not a full head of hair.
like hellouser often stated already: why not go multiple times for a treatment? even if the natural density can't be reached with this method but still gives a good 40 to 50 grafts per cm2 then this is definitely a good point to start with.

so it's a little bit fishy how cots argues. i think it would be crucial now to stay in contact with cots and see what they are talking about. they have to give us insight in their results and if they are really able to consistently create hairs, it can be a game changer indeed.
even if it has to be combined with normal HTs to create more density, it would be fantastic.

i would love to see what the wounding is all about... the instruments, the procedure, the results, the limitations. it's time for some answers now.

Good point! If we are to contribute then we would want some details.

[JZA70]

Man you guys really get ahead of yourselves. Cot's probably nuked a scalp and grew 5 new hairs.

Look at the big picture, if he cant even get 2 million for he supposed revolutionary treatment, I think its time to move on.

Check back in 5 years.

[PaddyBateman]

Hair loss is f*kin horrendous.

However. Lets say the cure comes out in 2024. What would you, in 2024, if you were offered a 5min time portal, were able to talk to yourself in 2014, told yourself to do with the next week, year, decade?

[nameless]

The more I look at what Desmond actually said the more I think we might want to consider what Cotseralis has said. Here is what Desmond said that Cotseralis said:

"3) I brought up the crowdfunding idea particularly with regards to Follica and he said the amount necessary is quite large. So I insisted on an actual amount and here's what he said: "US $2 million would bring out a product that would be more effective than Minoxidil and Propecia but would not give a bald person a full head of hair. US $20 million will provide the kind of funding necessary to give someone who is already bald a full head of hair but it will take more years to accomplish"."

If you look at this it could mean a lot of regrowth for guys who are stage 3 or even stage 4. I think we should get more information from him about how much regrowth is involved in a typical stage 3 and stage 4 patient. Plus I would also like to see him agree to release it to doctors in countries where it would be legal for the doctor to perform it. Also, when would he release it in America? I mean if it's gone through phase 2 then it should be one more study (phase 3) and then release it.

Hellouser Follica/Cots and the parent company want to continue the studies so I think they might agree to releasing it in one country where it would be legal in exchange for the $2 million funding. I think that they would probably do it because if they don't then there's no funding and all of their efforts to this point are down the drain. In 8 years it will not matter because the cell therapy guys will come along with something that cures everybody so they will have missed out on an opportunity to make some money off the baldness game.

[Haircure]

I think it's important if we know how close we are like Arashi said. Even if it's 5 more years at least we have a good idea and can get a hair transplant and have good coverage until then, rather than sitting on the fence waiting for a cure to come.

[Thinning87]

I find it absolutely hilarious that Cotsarelis trolled Desmond in real life. Wow. Better than both current treatments available but cant rake in two million to get it to market. Sure there. What is Follica ? A company that has nothing going for them but pretends they do.

I cant believe you actually have to make an appointment to talk to him.

The fact that, while Follica is supposed to be making progress with fgf9, others in the dermatology department at Upenn have been working on epithelial cells, makes me wonder if you mint be right.

And in retrospection, the statement "we have shown that we can consistently create new hair follicles" is vague and doesn't mean at all they have achieved something worth being called a full cure. Actually, it's more likely to be a defensive statement, like "we have the method to create new follicles but we don't have a method to make you a full head of hair".

I think at this point it's safe to say we have a good ten years of no cure ahead of us. Better get used to if folks... Although I'm still down to do a crowd funding campaign, at least my cousins that are 10 years younger will benefit from it a great deal.

[joachim]

Hair loss is f*kin horrendous.

However. Lets say the cure comes out in 2024. What would you, in 2024, if you were offered a 5min time portal, were able to talk to yourself in 2014, told yourself to do with the next week, year, decade?

haha, that's easy. if there's one thing we could learn from marty mcfly and doc brown, then how to change the future very effectively
if you have knowledge about future technlogy, 5min is more than enough to guide yourself through the next 10 years.

[nameless]

Man you guys really get ahead of yourselves. Cot's probably nuked a scalp and grew 5 new hairs.

Look at the big picture, if he cant even get 2 million for he supposed revolutionary treatment, I think its time to move on.

Check back in 5 years.

One thing that I don't understand is why he can't get funding if he has grown significant amounts of hair????

$2 million looks like a drop in the bucket to invest for a treatment coming out of phase 2 and only has to complete phase 3 and can grow definitely more hair in more people than minoxidil/propecia. If it can beat minox/propecia then it can take all of the minox/propecia business plus get new business. It's amazing that they can't get someone to invest $2 million if it really is obviously better than minoxidil/propecia.

[joachim]

Stem Cell Hair Regrowth Treatment Breakthrough So…: http://youtu.be/i7_fvcigbeA

so this is the video which probably everyone of us have seen already.
in my opinion the new white hair is pretty dense. if cots can do that on my scalp, i'm in!
they are talking about missing pigments in mice, thus the white color. shouldn't be the case with humans. but even if the wounding would produce white colored hair only, i wouldn't mind. i just would dye it. no problem at all.

so that white dense mouse hair was years ago.
if the finished follica trials show similar results in human scalp, then it's a quasi-cure in my opinion. cots should tell us more about it.