Sm04554

[KO1]

How can we get the word out about this trial? I'd love for people from the community to sign up.

[KO1]

Why do you guys think this SM drug will not work on its own? I'm assuming samumed has some hopes for efficacy if they are going ahead with such a large phase 2 trial...

I feel like I read a lot of armchair science on here, but as far as I know none of the guys on here have ever seen a wnt agonist used and tested in this capacity. whatever chemical you used is not the same as this one. I'm not saying I have high hopes for anything, but why exactly should we be skeptical of this one? Seems far more promising as a maintenance drug than CB or other antiandrogens, which have well known limitations.

It is because AGA skin has too many problems going on, oxidation, senescence, apoptotic cells, loss of subcutaneous fat, immune system doing who knows what. Wounding gives us a chance to rebuild the skin.

As for these guys, they are not hair loss guys, they're primarily Wnt experts who are targeting the problem in the way they know best. I'm confident it will do something, because a weaker Wnt agonist like VPA is proven to grow hair, but I doubt it will be spectacular. Obviously, happy to be wrong.

[Boldy]

Maybe SM04554 alone can regrow a good amount of hair on diffuse thinners? lets hope thats the case. I certainly dont expect a NW 7 to NW1 reversal.

But, like you said, they are spending millions on a ph.II trial for a reason. Also that trial will be 3 times bigger than the one cosmo is conducting for cb. Expensive as f#ck...

Nevertheless, after reading Boldy and seeing some great results with a proper wounding protocol, i think our best chance to regrow a good amount of hair will come from the combination of wounding and potent GSK3 inhibitors.

I still have like 200-300mg 6-BIO in my freezer from the groupbuy, more than enough for 1 year trial. Im okay to donate some of it if someone is willing to photo document a proper wounding trial + this gsk3 inhibitor. a slick bald scalp would be an interesting test case. it is this compound: http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/.../b1686?lang=en

Keep in mind that this stuff is experimental and stains red, so has to be used at night, or when no one can see you

[Tenma]

I still have like 200-300mg 6-BIO in my freezer from the groupbuy, more than enough for 1 year trial. Im okay to donate some of it if someone is willing to photo document a proper wounding trial + this gsk3 inhibitor. a slick bald scalp would be an interesting test case. it is this compound: http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/.../b1686?lang=en

Keep in mind that this stuff is experimental and stains red, so has to be used at night, or when no one can see you

thanks man, but i'm not the experimental type of guy. Maybe someone else is interested in doing it though. It could be really interesting

What i am considering is wounding my hairline the way 2young2retire from stopag forum did. His results were amazing, almost complete reversal

What if follica didnt release anything because the impossibility to "monetize" their wounding protocol?

[macbeth81]

What if follica didnt release anything because the impossibility to "monetize" their wounding protocol?

The Phase 2a results for Follica is in their patent. It is more likely it is not released because it is no better than minoxidil.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US20140079686.pdf

[Tenma]

The Phase 2a results for Follica is in their patent. It is more likely it is not released because it is no better than minoxidil.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=p...0140079686.pdf

Really doubt thats the case given that cotsarelis himself stated follica phase 2 trials results were better than current treatments.

How much better? who knows...

[sdsurfin]

I guess that's true, but these things are all part of the same chain too. If you fix one link in the chain it can sometimes stop the other ones from happening. we have seen this already with anti androgens. blocking androgens and starting the ant pathway up at the same time could possibly be a great combination. add replicel to that and you can probably keep your hair for a long time. It will be interesting to see how fast scientists can start replacing entire follicles, and even when they do, topicals like these will probably help a lot. I'm not sure if i care enough about age to be slathering all these things on my head all the time, so i hope replicel proves to be a good maintenance option on its own, at least for a decade or so.

[burtandernie]

I think decent regrowth sells better than maintenance so you would assume they have something here. Assuming of course it works well enough for them to take farther. I dont know if anyone really knows what kind of results this approach would even achieve. NW 7 to NW 1? Seems more unlikely than not but I doubt anyone could say its impossible
What I like though is no one saw this coming. It came out of nowhere and hopefully it turns out well

[sdsurfin]

I think decent regrowth sells better than maintenance so you would assume they have something here. Assuming of course it works well enough for them to take farther. I dont know if anyone really knows what kind of results this approach would even achieve. NW 7 to NW 1? Seems more unlikely than not but I doubt anyone could say its impossible
What I like though is no one saw this coming. It came out of nowhere and hopefully it turns out well

I've read a couple biotech guys say that this is not a huge thing. Might be as good as fin though, which would be great. These pathways are so complex, I don't think a NW7 to NW1 situation is ever going to happen with a single chemical. Maybe with a complex combination of treatments, and definitely with hair cloning in the not too distant future. Either way , yeah good to see things coming out of the blue.

[Tenma]

I've read a couple biotech guys say that this is not a huge thing. Might be as good as fin though, which would be great.

They only conducted ph.I. I wonder how these biotech guys know about the potential effectiveness when not even Samumed tested the drug for that purpose yet

[KO1]

The Phase 2a results for Follica is in their patent. It is more likely it is not released because it is no better than minoxidil.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=p...0140079686.pdf

This is not correct. Those results are the results of the CONTROL group, not the treatment.

[KO1]

Really doubt thats the case given that cotsarelis himself stated follica phase 2 trials results were better than current treatments.

How much better? who knows...

Do you have a reference for this? Very curious if true.

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

Do you have a reference for this? Very curious if true.

I believe he's referring to the interview with Desmond. I believe his answer went something like this "2 million would bring a treatment better than minoxidil and propecia, 20 million would bring a treatment that could give a bald person a full head of hair, but will take more years to accomplish."

I think it's very, very likely they do have something that's better than propecia + minox in the works, because of the PGD2 discovery and its significance, as well as the fact that Follica should not have any problem getting funded with $2 million. Puretech Ventures recently received $55 million for its current trials, and there's just no way that Follica didn't see any of that money with this kind of potential for a game-changing treatment.

[KO1]

Perhaps...I suspect that Cotsarelis needed a much more potent Wnt promoter than Lithium...These two outfits need to hook up methinks.

[It's2014ComeOnAlready]

I'm sure Cots knows what he's doing. He's obviously very cagey about their work, and while we on baldtruthtalk have phD's in bro-science, his knowledge is pretty significant.