Tweet
Cotsarelis should become aware of this drug.
-
-
Thanks for this Boldy - will see if i can find out any results with 6-bio but would presume no otherwise if wouldnt have escaped the normal hype! but that's not to say it couldnt still work...
Dont suppose you know anything abut SM04554 in terms of structure?
May be a bit tenuous, but believe i've found the patent but lacks molecular structure apparently
i think this is the compound being used in Samumed's SM trials in San Diegeo - one the lead inventors listed on the patent works for Samumed as per https://www.linkedin.com/pub/sunil-kumar-kc/3/934/149 and the patent seems relevant in it's description
Further, looks the most likely from the other patents he's developed http://www.faqs.org/patents/inventor...an-diego-us-1/
Thoughts?Comment
-
I suppose it is either compound 1 , 2 or 3. But can't know for sure.. Compound 2 seems the most strongest from their essay.
Administration and Pharmaceutical Compositions
[0317] Some embodiments include pharmaceutical compositions comprising: (a) a safe and therapeutically effective amount of a compound according to Formulas I, II or III, or its corresponding enantiomer, diastereoisomer or tautomer, or pharmaceutically acceptable salt; and (b) a pharmaceutically acceptable carrier.
Comment
-
Boldy, why do you think SM4554 wont regrowth much hair on its own? Maybe using it in conjuction with DUT or RU could be better?Comment
-
Maybe you are comparing sm potential effectiveness with VPA based on that small scale trial published some time ago.
I think the trial had some important limitations.
According the investigators “the optimal dose and concentration of the VPA spray were not determined and higher concentration and dose of the VPA spray may be more effective for the treatment of AGA.”
"Of the 40 patients enrolled in the study, 27 (n = 15, VPA group; n = 12, placebo group) completed the entire protocol with good compliance."
27 is a really small sample sizeComment
-
And in the meanwhile we continue to grow balder...lolComment
-
because we have had really potent gsk3b inhibitors (6-bio) this year, with limited results, although, it is not good to draw a conclusion on small group of people who tried it about 5-10.
6-bio ic50 is about 5nm
Lithium 2mm
with other words 6-bio is about 40.000 times stronger/ more selective in vitro.
as you can see it is really hard to out perform 6bio..
we might have to give it an another try with dermarolling or other mechanisms.
@ charlie I will look to the patent of smo, it might be logical to assume that they took compound 2, however it is not necessary that they picked compound 2, other factors play a role too like toxicology and binding on other receptor sites.Comment
-
To be fair though, I believe lithium's potency in vivo exceeds its potency in vitro....that being said, I agree that just upregulating Wnt doesn't really solve the major problem of pushing the SC's to produce TACs...
Check out this....even more potent GSK-3b modulators than 6-BIO
IComment
-
Yeah! All makes sense, I had called the CB clinic in SD and the woman told me that in a month they'll be starting a new exciting treatment trial for hair loss but wouldn't give any specifics... This confirms that it was effectively SM that she was talking about!!!
All in all: The SD clinic is recruiting for CB and SM trials!Comment
-
Good to hear.
2016 will be THE year for us. I'm more excited about Sm though. Since Hamilton studies in the 60s we know the therapeutic limits of the antiandrogenic angle (very little regrowth, long term maintenance).
WNT agonists and or GSK-3 inhibitors with wounding are the most promising things in the pipeline.
All that said, unlike others, i think CB will be released for AGA and it should be the really really effective for those young men intelligent enough to start using it at the very early stages of aga.Comment
-
agree Ko1, but if a compound can inhibit at uM dose, then its already ultra potent..To be fair though, I believe lithium's potency in vivo exceeds its potency in vitro....that being said, I agree that just upregulating Wnt doesn't really solve the major problem of pushing the SC's to produce TACs...
Check out this....even more potent GSK-3b modulators than 6-BIO
I
I still think that we could expect something from wounding/ Chlorine Dioxide + strong gsk3 inhibitors.Comment
-
We need something more than dermarolling, I think. Cotsarelis' work implied that we need a wound that doesn't close in on itself, so a pinprick style wound like needle woulnd't do it. We need to dermabrade a decent surface area, say a few square cm's. Something like a chemical peel would work. Especially if we're doing this on slick bald scalp.Comment
-
What do you guys think about using a topical like VPA or 6BIO to the donor site after FUE? All those wounds are there....Comment
-
Why do you guys think this SM drug will not work on its own? I'm assuming samumed has some hopes for efficacy if they are going ahead with such a large phase 2 trial...
I feel like I read a lot of armchair science on here, but as far as I know none of the guys on here have ever seen a wnt agonist used and tested in this capacity. whatever chemical you used is not the same as this one. I'm not saying I have high hopes for anything, but why exactly should we be skeptical of this one? Seems far more promising as a maintenance drug than CB or other antiandrogens, which have well known limitations.Comment
-
Maybe SM04554 alone can regrow a good amount of hair on diffuse thinners? lets hope thats the case. I certainly dont expect a NW 7 to NW1 reversal.
But, like you said, they are spending millions on a ph.II trial for a reason. Also that trial will be 3 times bigger than the one cosmo is conducting for cb. Expensive as f#ck...
Nevertheless, after reading Boldy and seeing some great results with a proper wounding protocol, i think our best chance to regrow a good amount of hair will come from the combination of wounding and potent GSK3 inhibitors.Comment
Comment