Killer stack for border line baldies

[Notcoolanymore]

I admit I can come across as a fin fanatic, but I do respect the decision not to take finasteride or any other drug. The stuff has screwed people up, but I recommend it to people because whether we like it or not, it is one of the very few things that has been proven to work. I am not against experimentals or stacking. I am personally using/taking the following: dermaroller, biotin, T-sal, regenepure, nizoral, but I also use minoxidil and finasteride.

I don't give a crap about Merck or any other drug company. If we had a better/safer treatment available, I would trash my finasteride in a heartbeat. If my hair loss wasn't that bad and I had time to spare I would probably be in the same boat as you guys and try other possible solutions. That ship has sailed for me, I have tried crap that doesn't work and need to stick to the stuff that can help.

Just because I don't agree with your stance against fin doesn't mean I hope you fail in your hair loss battle. I don't. If you succeed, we all succeed. Shit, if it turns out your laser helmet works, I'll be the first in line to buy one.

Just wanted to clear that up. People fight too much on these damn forums, which is stupid, because at the end of the day we all want the same thing, a treatment that works.

[Sparky4444]

ummmm...yeah!!

"I believe you are having regrowth, but most likely it is due to the minoxidil you are using and nothing else"

He claimed to have regrowth and I believe he has, but it is most likely due to the fact that he is using minoxidil. I doubt any of the other stuff he is using is having any effect at all.

"Minoxidil works, but for most people minox alone will not keep your hair loss from progressing."

Minoxidil will help to regrow hair, but for most, using it alone is not a long term solution to hair loss.

Didn't think it was that complicated to comprehend, but hope this clears it up.

If you're regrowing, you're maintaining...people maintain on minoxidil...you don't make any sense...

...as far as "stacking" goes, I think it is a good word to use...DR'ing has a dramatic impact, but not necessarily enough on it's own...I think we need to revisit all the old methods with introducing DR'ing...

[locke999]

Notcoolanymore, I completely understood the point you were making and its definitely the safest bet to first try fin and minox, the two treatment that thousands and thousands have had results with alone.

There's a lot of people on these forums promoting RU and CB and whatever other treatments but they never use it as a standalone treatment, so we never know whether it is actually due to the RU and the CB or if its because of the minox they use but they atribute minox's effect as RU giving results. I am not saying these experimental treatment doesn't work, but it has no been proven adequately to work.

There are too many illogical posters on these forums and if your post didn't make sense, it is not your fault.

[Notcoolanymore]

If you're regrowing, you're maintaining...people maintain on minoxidil...you don't make any sense...

...as far as "stacking" goes, I think it is a good word to use...DR'ing has a dramatic impact, but not necessarily enough on it's own...I think we need to revisit all the old methods with introducing DR'ing...

I don't make sense to you because you don't know what you are talking about. You can regrow hair on minoxidil, but it is in no way a long term solution, you will continue to lose hair. Show me one person who has used minoxidil alone and was able to keep all of his hair. That's right you can't. If you want to call growing your hair back for a few years(if your lucky) then starting to lose it again "maintaining" then ok. I consider long term growth and stabilization as maintaining. But whatever, useless argument, if you want to use minoxidil as your long term solution to hair loss, then good luck with that.

[thechamp]

I don't make sense to you because you don't know what you are talking about. You can regrow hair on minoxidil, but it is in no way a long term solution, you will continue to lose hair. Show me one person who has used minoxidil alone and was able to keep all of his hair. That's right you can't. If you want to call growing your hair back for a few years(if your lucky) then starting to lose it again "maintaining" then ok. I consider long term growth and stabilization as maintaining. But whatever, useless argument, if you want to use minoxidil as your long term solution to hair loss, then good luck with that.

Well I'm interested in this stack for one I can't take fin because of weight gain so I'm using minoxdill laser and nizoral , to scared to touch ru so not all of us have a choice!

[Sparky4444]

I don't make sense to you because you don't know what you are talking about. You can regrow hair on minoxidil, but it is in no way a long term solution, you will continue to lose hair. Show me one person who has used minoxidil alone and was able to keep all of his hair. That's right you can't. If you want to call growing your hair back for a few years(if your lucky) then starting to lose it again "maintaining" then ok. I consider long term growth and stabilization as maintaining. But whatever, useless argument, if you want to use minoxidil as your long term solution to hair loss, then good luck with that.

Always gotta be a douche bag on every forum...

I've seen lots of threads were guys say they've maintained only using Minox...don't give a rats-ass what you think....I made a comment unbiased and you had to turn it into an a-hole response...

Anyways -- stack -- the new buzz word for hairloss treatment in situ

[Notcoolanymore]

Well I'm interested in this stack for one I can't take fin because of weight gain so I'm using minoxdill laser and nizoral , to scared to touch ru so not all of us have a choice!

I should not have discounted the OP's "stack". I have read about so many remedies consisting of lasers, vitamins, oils, etc, that do not pan out. So when I read this thread my first thought was "here we go again". I am not opposed to experimenting(I use unproven stuff too), but I just believe in using stuff that has been proven to work. The OP's says his treatment is working. I hope it is. As far as I am concerned the more stuff that works, the more options we will have, the better off we will all be.

[Notcoolanymore]

Always gotta be a douche bag on every forum...

I've seen lots of threads were guys say they've maintained only using Minox...don't give a rats-ass what you think....I made a comment unbiased and you had to turn it into an a-hole response...

Anyways -- stack -- the new buzz word for hairloss treatment in situ

I am the douche bag...ok, what ever you say. All of your posts directed at me have been attacks. Now you are name calling, but I'm the douche bag. Read my latest posts directed at the OP. I have since backed off a bit from my original statements, tried to clarify my position, and pretty much admitted I was wrong for tearing down his treatment "stack".

Lastly, why the hell are we arguing about BS? We are all in the same effin boat, dealing with this hair loss shit. I don't come in here trying to hurt guys and steer them in the wrong direction. I tell them what I believe works based on my experience and clinical studies. If I sound like an ahole when I am doing that, then I apologize. All this infighting is just stupid.

[Dan26]

your a certified GOOF if you don't start with the proven treatments....Ofcourse, if you get side effects, get off the treatment that is causing them

expirmentals shoudl only be used to compliment an already strong regimen, especially for those with aggressive loss and/or poor responders to fin/minox/niz/dut etc

i'll agree MPB requires a multimodal approach in many cases, and i wont discount those who have success without the use of an AA...but rreally, your making things way harder than they need to be if you dont give the proven treatments a chance

if your a middle aged dude with moderate/slow loss go ahead, take that risk, but lets not get careless and try and tell the newer/younger guys to go expirmental route, in their situations every day counts! I wish i got on fin/minox 1-2 years before i did

[Notcoolanymore]

your a certified GOOF if you don't start with the proven treatments....Ofcourse, if you get side effects, get off the treatment that is causing them

expirmentals shoudl only be used to compliment an already strong regimen, especially for those with aggressive loss and/or poor responders to fin/minox/niz/dut etc

i'll agree MPB requires a multimodal approach in many cases, and i wont discount those who have success without the use of an AA...but rreally, your making things way harder than they need to be if you dont give the proven treatments a chance

if your a middle aged dude with moderate/slow loss go ahead, take that risk, but lets not get careless and try and tell the newer/younger guys to go expirmental route, in their situations every day counts! I wish i got on fin/minox 1-2 years before i did

This is what I try to do. Maybe I am being taken the wrong way, but I am just trying to tell it like I see it. Maybe for some who are slowly losing hair, they can afford to take their time and experiment. From where I am standing(NW3 diffuse w/crown thinning), I don't have that luxury. So when I recommend giving finasteride a try, I am not giving advice from the stand point of loving fin, but from a position of someone that doesn't have any more time to waste.

[Dan26]

This is what I try to do. Maybe I am being taken the wrong way, but I am just trying to tell it like I see it. Maybe for some who are slowly losing hair, they can afford to take their time and experiment. From where I am standing(NW3 diffuse w/crown thinning), I don't have that luxury. So when I recommend giving finasteride a try, I am not giving advice from the stand point of loving fin, but from a position of someone that doesn't have any more time to waste.

yes man i agree everyone is diffeernt...if a young guy comes on here and is already nw2 or his loss/thinning seems to be progressing at a fast rate, instead of sugarcoating it, it needs to be stated that you either get on fin and/or minox (RU too IMO but thats up for debate, understandably), or you accept your fate....you have next to know chance saving yourself if you are destined for high nw before 30 and not using approved treatments

remember so many guys on here lose like a nw every 5-10 years and by the tone of their posts we unluckier guys assume they are in a similar boat and take the anecdotes or advice and relate them to our situation...

everyone giving out advice based on their own experiences also really needs to include the details of their loss...someone young or with aggressive loss generally wont care what your fin results are if your middle aged with slow loss nor should they

[Tenma]

OP, sorry to be that guy but your regimen is far from being "borderline". I've been reading studies and surfing hairloss foums long enough and can assure you that without fin or dut (thank god i found dut soon enough) you are going to lose most of your hair.

"Borderlines" are the ones experimenting with spiro, ru, growth factors, cb, pg2 inhibitors, etc,etc. Some of those individuals are the ones getting incredible results. Google them if you want.

Sometimes i feel sorry for the incredibly absurd "army" of propecia haters posting here. Get real dudes, AGA is about androgens, you MUST stop them if you want to keep your hair.

My advice, read the scientific literature about androgenic alopecia. For starters keep an eye on 2 very important recent studies:

http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/research/10-year-finasteride-study-first-to-investigate-long-term-effects-and-safety/

http://www.hairstransplanted.com/articles/PDF_Dual_5_a_Reductase_inhibition_MPHL.pdf

With all that said, i still think we need better treatments, specially for those who are at or above NW4.

PS: Glaxo is pursuing FDA approval later this year for an alopecia formulation. Recent studies suggests it could be 40% more effective than fin.

[Tenma]

For FDA fanboys, a quick update:

http://www.gsk-clinicalstudyregister.com/study/200209#ps

If this study goes as expected Dutasteride will be FDA approved for hairloss by 2015 or learly 2016.

Dut+topical antiandrogen = viable long term solution for early norwoods.

[EXprettyboy]

I can understand why a lot of the posts in this thread are from people upset that I am espousing a treatment stack that does not include anti androgens. They feel that I am misleading young men into thinking they can tackle hairloss effectively with a dud regimen, but this is not the case.

I know that anti androgens will help somebody reverse hairloss. I know that the associated side affects are as low as 9% for dut (Wikipedia), which for some is worth the gamble. Everybody has to make the AA decision for themselves.

But for people to rubbish all other treatments, just because THEY have made the decision to take AAs is unreasonable and also unfair to people who are reading all the information to make their choice. It's as if they're trying to reassure themselves they've made the right decision as opposed to actually help anybody. I've seen a thread that basically says "if you don't take AAs you're asking for it" which is not true.

People are also speaking not from experience but from what they have reasoned in their minds to be most logical. I'm no newb to hairloss, I understand the anxiety, I understand the desperation and anger. But the great thing about a forum is that there are people on it with no agenda only to help one another. Bald truth talk has always been my go to, for treatment recommendations and this thread is an opportunity for me to relay some of my experience, my angle, from my direct first hand experience.

Consider this advice for people who are automatic NOs to AAs. Or consider it people who are on AAs who want to add more to there regimen. But don't shit on it because you want to make yourself feel better about your choices. It's only fair that all the information is allowed to surface, you guys don't like "propecia haters" but your hating on everything else.


I ultimately don't really care if this thread fades into obscurity, because I have done my duty in reporting back, take it as you will. I can't stop looking at my hairline in the mirror for the last few days, I can't stop feeling the strong even stubble on my scalp and I can't stop smiling. The crown is still thin but I know I have this thing by the balls now so I don't care.

So again here's the deal:

6 years treating with minoxidil and a plethora of other things. Started out a Norwood 2 with slight thinning.

Fast forward 6 years, November 2013. Norwood 2.5 rapidly becoming Norwood 3. Visible 'horse shoe' of dense stubble at back and sides, contrasting against sparse thinning hair on top, especially at the back. ****, I think I'm done.

January, shave head with raw. The head shaving is important, you can do your damage with the roller and get full exposure to laser and topicals. Keep your head shaved for at least a few weeks. I saw the shed in thinning patches even with a shaved head. Last 3 weeks, I don't look like I shave because I'm balding, it looks like a genuine style. My temples are where I look with a mirror for a side view and I say definitely improved. Hairline is back, forelock is strong, crown is gradually improving. I did all that in weeks. Previously I've worn hats for months waiting for results that haven't compared.

Now I did say borderline, to me that means people would look at you and have to scrutinise for a few moments before concluding if your losing your hair. in my opinion this is one of the worst stages of hairloss because your whole identity is in doubt in your mind. If you don't wanna take AAs and you're already on minoxidil, this is what's working for me.

[EXprettyboy]

Androgens are not the "problem", the genetic sensitivity to androgens in the follicle is the problem.

The obvious answer is not always the best one, androgens make a man.

It's analogous to saying rivers cause floods so let's put dams everywhere, instead of building cities with flood protection.