Dermarolling Community Trial

[amadeus]

Actually, I stated that "I" would not use more the a .5 for home use. I wasn't advising anyone of anything. Sorry if you find my comments hypocritical, I understand that you really want this to work for you. I'm just trying to bring some logic into the mix.

Perhaps if you guys could check the emotions at the door, these discussions would become even more productive.

Just as there is no evidence that aggressively micro-needling "hurts" as you put it, there is no evidence to the contrary either.

You tell everyone not to give unsubstantiated advice and then IMMEDIATELY advise people not to use anything more than .5mm, without ANY documentation of the negative effects of using 1.5mm once weekly and following a published study.

I understand and actually appreciate your cautionary approach, but this is complete hypocrisy. You have no evidence that 1.5mm will do anything beyond what is suggested in the study, which is regrow a substantial amount of hair.

I agree that without an AA the gains me be temporary, but everyone is freaking out about the same type conjecture and assumption for which they've gotten so excited. There's no evidence it hurts. There's some evidence it helps. 1-0 good guys.

[lilpauly]

Guys my camera is on its way and I got thousands of hairs and the dermaroller is part of the reason !!!!!!!!

[Conpecia]

Actually, I stated that "I" would not use more the a .5 for home use. I wasn't advising anyone of anything. Sorry if you find my comments hypocritical, I understand that you really want this to work for you. I'm just trying to bring some logic into the mix.

Perhaps if you guys could check the emotions at the door, these discussions would become even more productive.

Just as there is no evidence that aggressively micro-needling "hurts" as you put it, there is no evidence to the contrary either.

ah, but there is evidence to the contrary. i.e. the study. hence this thread.

not trying to being emotional here, just concerned that you have no empirical evidence before making a claim that could derail this entire project.

and again, i appreciate that you're only being cautious and trying to help people not get scarred. but there's no evidence of this happening with dermarolling 1x/week at 1.5mm.

[Baby John]

hi baby john, not sure i follow what you're getting at with this post?

Hiya Con,

My last post.

This is supposedly a community trial, a group of people working together to develope an effective treatment based on a previous study.

As a community:

You have failed to take a critical look at the very study you wish to emulate.
You have failed to assess the risks which may be involved.
You have failed to to provide any method to reliably measure efficacy.

What you are is a bunch of people that read a few paragraphs of text, saw a couple of before and after pictures, and individually start pulling the trigger to just, as one poster put it, put some 1mm holes in your scalp once a week.

Golly, that's nothing...

Unless you do a little math!

If you're doing the entire top of your head, that's at least 10 meters of wounds depth wise over 12 weeks in the very place you want hair to grow. And you're doing this without making a single informed decision...

Man Up!

Good luck and goodbye.

[Borealis]

Is anyone in contact with a Dermatologist or anyone who could advise us on the scarring concern?

Why is nothing ever simple with this stupid thing!

Also, PrettyFly was meant to be getting in touch with the people that conducted the study. Did he manage to get a reply off them?

[amadeus]

Well put Baby John. It's sometimes difficult to attempt to bring logic into the mix when we're dealing with such intense emotions.

Hiya Con,

My last post.

This is supposedly a community trial, a group of people working together to develope an effective treatment based on a previous study.

As a community:

You have failed to take a critical look at the very study you wish to emulate.
You have failed to assess the risks which may be involved.
You have failed to to provide any method to reliably measure efficacy.

What you are is a bunch of people that read a few paragraphs of text, saw a couple of before and after pictures, and individually start pulling the trigger to just, as one poster put it, put some 1mm holes in your scalp once a week.

Golly, that's nothing...

Unless you do a little math!

If you're doing the entire top of your head, that's at least 10 meters of wounds depth wise over 12 weeks in the very place you want hair to grow. And you're doing this without making a single informed decision...

Man Up!

Good luck and goodbye.

[hellouser]

What you are is a bunch of people that read a few paragraphs of text, saw a couple of before and after pictures, and individually start pulling the trigger to just, as one poster put it, put some 1mm holes in your scalp once a week.

That is offensive as well as a lie. All the articles and publications I've posted throughout this thread have supported wounding induced hair growth.

As a whole, our job is to look into it more and see how we can use the studies to our advantage, rather than have one individual slam the entire project.

[amadeus]

I don't think Baby John is slamming anything. He's being logical and realistic. We would all love to improve our chances of growing more hair, but the simplistic view documented by most of the posters on this thread only highlights what Baby John has so eloquently pointed out.

That is offensive as well as a lie. All the articles and publications I've posted throughout this thread have supported wounding induced hair growth.

As a whole, our job is to look into it more and see how we can use the studies to our advantage, rather than have one individual slam the entire project.

[Chromeo]

I don't think there is really much point grumping and groaning that the trial is not being adhered to strictly by everyone. It isn't highschool, we don't all have to do things the way teacher says... Sorry if anyone is unhappy about it, but frankly expecting everyone on this thread to do the exact same thing here is somewhat unrealistic.

People are in the middle of regimes that they are not willing to completely drop altogether just so they can replicate this study accurately. However, many are quite willing to add dermarolling into the mix. These folks are perfectly welcome in my view to chime in and give us an idea whether or not they are seeing any improvement or not. I think it's valuable information, regardless of whether or not they are sticking to the "rules" of the original study.

[Conpecia]

Will someone please simply provide evidence that either a) the study was inaccurate in some form, or b) dermarolling one's scalp with a 1.5mm roller once weekly is somehow dangerous in any way beyond not taking care to prevent an infection. I am sick of individuals demanding "realistic" and "logical" approaches, and when I in turn can point to a published study from a department of dermatology with photographs, AND photographs from a member of this very forum who has absolutely no agenda, AND the fact that this dermarolling technique has been used for decades without notions of scarring or cancer, AND the theories and studies upon which Follica, the most important company in the balding world, are founded on the wounding approach, AND the fact that an indian clinic cannot benefit from a study involving minoxidil and derma rollers which are purchased on amazon... in spite of it all, it's not enough and we're all somehow uninformed or foolish or we are rushing to take part in some snake oil approach having done no research. And yet when I try to get a single speck of evidence from these individuals as to the apparent dangers of this method they have nothing. Absolutely nothing. No evidence. No studies. No photographs. No companies. No links. I just do not understand. If you have evidence then show me and I will absolutely consider it. If you have an idea of a possible risk then state your words of caution and I for one will appreciate them. But if you are simply going to criticize and belittle the very real and very brave efforts of the community, and in particular people like Hellouser, from the safety of your digital perch while the rest of us men are in the trenches, all merely because we aren't doing it as well as you can imagine or as you would like it done, then yes, leave this thread and do not post here again, because I have absolutely no respect for you.

[lilpauly]

1.5 mm dermaroller can cause bleeding.....

[UK_]

1.5 mm dermaroller can cause bleeding.....

Lilpauly have you tried dermarolling + injecting FGF9 with WNT7A???

I really think we should set up a study or something into growth factors for hair loss, I am willing to help with funding.

[lilpauly]

Lilpauly have you tried dermarolling + injecting FGF9 with WNT7A???

I really think we should set up a study or something into growth factors for hair loss, I am willing to help with funding.

No man I never injected anything into my scalp. Fgf9 seems promising . I will also pay as well, we must know long term sides etc, . Based on information in the grow factors from Kane there were no known sides in clinical studies but farrel my friend from
Hlh said there could be sides . Any1 who users experimentals please realize potential sides. also considder any sides when using any treatment

[UK_]

No man I never injected anything into my scalp. Fgf9 seems promising . I will also pay as well, we must know long term sides etc, . Based on information in the grow factors from Kane there were no known sides but farrel my friend fro
Hlh said there could be sides . Any1 who users experimentals please realize potential sides.

What do you think about potential for heart failure on CB? Do you think boldy was right about heart failure sides???

[lilpauly]

What do you think about potential for heart failure on CB? Do you think boldy was right about heart failure sides???

well in the studies by cosmo no sides where reported, people have reported irregualr heart beats with cb, ru and minox. in fact minox landed jonson123 in the hospital. minox at large makes my eyes black,