Dermarolling Community Trial

[Baby John]

Baby John; not sure if you might have any insights on this, but I've got some scarring on my head from using a razor at one point.

Thank you.

Heya clan,

I finally saw the quote button. Sheesh...

I'm very sorry that I don't have any solid answer for you. I came into this thread curious about the process and while there's lots of excellent info to be found, putting it all together and making an informed decision isn't easy...

Can a person prone to scarring needle safely?
What kind of results, good or bad, should they look for?
If the the scarring is shallow and the underlying structures are intact, what results should we look for?
Hair follicles don't form in scar tissue but, can we expect a cosmetic improvement in the appearance and what problems do we keep an eye out for so we don't make it worse?

The answers may around somewhere or, if not, a group can come together perhaps provide a definitive answer or move towards one. If they make an effort to do it right.

Otherwise it's one off anecdotes and that's not much better than taking advice from a guy on the corner with a liquor bottle in his hand...

[doke]

Dermaroller as said been out many years not a new topic so much as old news?

[amadeus]

Unfortunately, that's exactly what is happening on these forums. It's one thing to be excited about sharing information, but it's unfair to everyone to give unsubstantiated advice as if it were the gospel.

Logically, if you are aggressively wounding your skin to the point of drawing blood on a regular basis, some scaring will occur., even if it is not visible to the naked eye. This is just the way our body heals. I would not use more than a .5 for home use and to be honest, I do not believe that any potential hair growth seen from rolling will be significant enough to make a cosmetic difference in the long term. I believe that if you don't adjust the hormones that are causing hair loss, then everything else might only be a temporary fix at best.

Otherwise it's one off anecdotes and that's not much better than taking advice from a guy on the corner with a liquor bottle in his hand...

[KeepHoping]

There's some indication in the study that the results were long lasting after the completion of the 12 weeks... Do you guys think, if benefits are seen, that discontinuing minox after a 12 week course following the studies protocol that the benefits will be long lasting if someone is taking fin?

[doke]

Seeing how I started the thread and would like to maintain it to stay on topic, I guess you could say it has something to do with me.

Feel free to take your off-topic comments elsewhere. Thank you.

No need to as im informing you its old news this been using derma for many years on and off it may be of some help on bald shiny areas as i am trying it again.
Perhaps histogen with have to have products injected into scalp i do have some diabetic syringes but what would be the product to do this with minoxidil into the scalp may be helpful or it may give more side effects.
It is these shiny bald areas where it would be great to regenerate new hair i heard that some guys a few years ago regrew hair with neosil psi after only a few weeks and then have a month off and reuse again so if we could try labpe psi and dermaroll the area first this may help.

[gainspotter]

FFS! Nothing is ever simple where hair is concerned!

[amadeus]

No one wants to hear this, but fin would be what makes the difference in those who respond well to it. If DHT is strangling your hair follicles, the process will keep happening unless it's put in check. There is really no way around that fact at this point in time. Fin is the cornerstone to any effective treatment plan.

There's some indication in the study that the results were long lasting after the completion of the 12 weeks... Do you guys think, if benefits are seen, that discontinuing minox after a 12 week course following the studies protocol that the benefits will be long lasting if someone is taking fin?

[Baby John]

Logically, if you are aggressively wounding your skin to the point of drawing blood on a regular basis, some scaring will occur., even if it is not visible.

Amadeus,

Aside from the fellow that pointed out a glaring conflict of interest issue with the research, you're the only person that has, in actuality, participated in a community trial.

90 plus pages...
2 actual participants...

Think I'll just sit back with the popcorn on this one.

[brunobald]

Maybe a safer way around these scarring issues is to test elsewhere on the body. I assume follicule generation is the same all over the body so we could test a small test area on some vellus hairs on the arm and see if we can turn them terminal?

This way we keep our scalps free of scars until we have the process nailed. What we need is a efficent process so you would have to derma roll way less. We can figure this out elsewhere on our bodys. It may also be easier to track progress as you can take pics yourself maybe get a hena tattoo marker or do it near a mole or some other body feature.

Then once we get repeatable results we can move to the scalp and test there. Then we will know the effect of DHT on the follicules.

[thinningTooSoon]

What happened to PrettyFly83, has there been any update on his progress? As far as I can see he is the only one who reported any regrowth...

[DesperateOne]

I came here expecting good news and instead it's all bad. It's like watching the news on tv, murder, crime, and catastrophes. I will just watch the show today and hopefully someone will call in to talk about the derma rolling and well I might stop coming here for a while, it's too depressing. I also agree that without fun this method is as good as useless, IMO.

[Conpecia]

Amadeus,

Aside from the fellow that pointed out a glaring conflict of interest issue with the research, you're the only person that has, in actuality, participated in a community trial.

90 plus pages...
2 actual participants...

Think I'll just sit back with the popcorn on this one.

hi baby john, not sure i follow what you're getting at with this post? obviously lots of guys are dermarolling so i'm sure you don't mean that only 2 are dermarolling. obviously a community trial is not the same thing as a scientific "trial" in the 3-phase sense so you're not comparing those. so what is your point here?

i think it's better for everyone to run out and try this in a million different ways, rather than have every single one of us adhere to the exact same roller, the exact same brand of minox, the exact same length of time b/t rolling, etc.

that seems like a monumental waste of time, basically trying to catch a never-before-seen fish with one hundred pieces of the same bait instead of one hundred different pieces of bait at the same time.

sure, we'll sacrifice organization and whatnot, but if people start getting results on method x we can go down that alley and refine the documentation, and if no one is getting results on method y we can discontinue it for the time being, rather than wasting 6 months with one method, only to find no one responds, whereupon a second method is established for 6 months, etc. that is the one real advantage we have over the larger companies and we ought to take it.

i think i'm misreading your criticism honestly. is there a reason beyond poor documentation that you're upset with this "trial?"

[hellouser]

i think i'm misreading your criticism honestly. is there a reason beyond poor documentation that you're upset with this "trial?"

LOL, what do people expect, FDA approved documentation? If thats the case, you'd end up waiting 5+ years.

[Conpecia]

Unfortunately, that's exactly what is happening on these forums. It's one thing to be excited about sharing information, but it's unfair to everyone to give unsubstantiated advice as if it were the gospel.

Logically, if you are aggressively wounding your skin to the point of drawing blood on a regular basis, some scaring will occur., even if it is not visible to the naked eye. This is just the way our body heals. I would not use more than a .5 for home use and to be honest, I do not believe that any potential hair growth seen from rolling will be significant enough to make a cosmetic difference in the long term. I believe that if you don't adjust the hormones that are causing hair loss, then everything else might only be a temporary fix at best.

You tell everyone not to give unsubstantiated advice and then IMMEDIATELY advise people not to use anything more than .5mm, without ANY documentation of the negative effects of using 1.5mm once weekly and following a published study.

I understand and actually appreciate your cautionary approach, but this is complete hypocrisy. You have no evidence that 1.5mm will do anything beyond what is suggested in the study, which is regrow a substantial amount of hair.

I agree that without an AA the gains me be temporary, but everyone is freaking out about the same type conjecture and assumption for which they've gotten so excited. There's no evidence it hurts. There's some evidence it helps. 1-0 good guys.

[Jazz1]

I use regain foam in the mornings because it's not greasy and flows with the weeds I have left, then I use lipogaine liquid at night. I think liquid is best but I'd be damned if I use it before I go to work or out in public

Iv been doing this last week I ditched regaine foam night started lipogaine instead, does it work?