Dermarolling Community Trial

[rhys216]

im using a dermapen bought from Ebay and it's very cheap. spills more blood then a roller.

I bought one of those and binned it. Not worth using in my opinion.
Bought a Derminator instead (fairly expensive) but works REALLY well though.
Apparently the cartridges penetrate deeper than the equivalent needle length of rollers, so I have started out with a 1mm needle length to be safe.
So far pain in tolerable, and I am not getting any blood. Little bit noisy on the scalp and face (I figure it can't hurt to look younger to) but still tolerable.
Not using anything else on scalp (very beginning stages of hair thinning), except caffeine shampoo (alpecin).

Currently I needle, then wash my hair with alpecin right after. I'm assuming it will also help the absorption of caffeine.

Too early to tell if it will make a difference, however I do see some shorter hairs growing where I don't 'think' there was any before needling.

[HMDWN]

If that's your logic then no one should use or try any hair growth treatment since every treatment available that actually works, first causes a shed which leads to temporary thinning.

Even if you cause damage to hair and you seem thinner for a little while, it's no different then using something as commonly used as Rogaine.

Vic again I thank you for your reply and of course you feedback is valid.
As I continue to read and gain more knowledge I am at times one that thinks outside the box so I'll ask one more opinion from you. Maybe this could be a factor, maybe not but here's another way I'm thinking...you know how it's said, when a person has hair transplants they will lose hair because it "shocks" the existing follicles.
Well, I have to wonder, forcing a 1.50 mm roller-needle into the scalp to "wound it" couldn't that also produce some "shocking" to the scalp-hair and cause another reason to shed too?
It almost seems, with any type of "save/regrow the hair treatment" whether it be deep-Dermarollering/needling, topicals a Minoxidil, RU58841 or ingesting pills as fin, dut etc or the extreme side of the treatment being hair transplants, there's no way to prevent the existing hairs from going through a hefty and depressing shedding phase.

[HMDWN]

If that's your logic then no one should use or try any hair growth treatment since every treatment available that actually works, first causes a shed which leads to temporary thinning.

Even if you cause damage to hair and you seem thinner for a little while, it's no different then using something as commonly used as Rogaine.

Vic again I thank you for your reply and of course you feedback is valid.
As I continue to read and gain more knowledge I am at times one that thinks outside the box so I'll ask one more opinion from you. Maybe this could be a factor, maybe not but here's another way I'm thinking...you know how it's said, when a person has hair transplants they will lose hair because it "shocks" the existing follicles.
Well, I have to wonder, forcing a 1.50 mm roller-needle into the scalp to "wound it" couldn't that also produce some "shocking" to the scalp-hair and cause another reason to shed too?
It almost seems, with any type of "save/regrow the hair treatment" whether it be deep-Dermarollering/needling, topicals as Fin, Dut, RU58841 etc or the extreme being hair transplants, there's no way to prevent the existing hairs from going through a hefty and depressing shedding phase.

[Vic]

Vic, thanks for the reply, I'm aware a healthy follicle will make and push hair out of the scalp.
Like a fingernail I fully understand once the hair exits the scalp it's "dead".
My meaning of "damage" or damaging the hair is...on a person with a considerable a mount of hair I can't help but think a roller with 192 needles 'could-maybe' cut into the hairs thus breaking them off thus shredding them from your head and making the density look worse.
I could only imagine a 540 needle roller doing even more damage to the hair as there's a far greater chance the closeness/congestion of the needles will pierce into and break-off a hair and thin out what you're trying to preserve.
Know what I mean?

If that's your logic then no one should use or try any hair growth treatment since every treatment available that actually works, first causes a shed which leads to temporary thinning.

Even if you cause damage to hair and you seem thinner for a little while, it's no different then using something as commonly used as Rogaine.

[HMDWN]

And to answer your question about damaging hair, it doesn't matter because hair is dead to begin with. You can poke it, cut it, stab it, etc etc etc and your hair follicle will grow more hair.

Vic, thanks for the reply, I'm aware a healthy follicle will make and push hair out of the scalp.
Like a fingernail I fully understand once the hair exits the scalp it's "dead".
My meaning of "damage" or damaging the hair is...on a person with a considerable a mount of hair I can't help but think a roller with 192 needles 'could-maybe' cut into the hairs thus breaking them off thus shredding them from your head and making the density look worse.
I could only imagine a 540 needle roller doing even more damage to the hair as there's a far greater chance the closeness/congestion of the needles will pierce into and break-off a hair and thin out what you're trying to preserve.
Know what I mean?

[Vic]

So this your natural approach?
Could you share some pictures to us, since mine was not clear enough for you in my imaginary mirror?

Click on my name and look for my results thread. It would help us all out of you took the time to take similar pics.

[Vic]

Could "more bleeding" really be beneficial?
I somewhat understand the thoughts behind "wounding" the 'skin itself' but not how that affects the actual dormant hair follicle has me scratching my head.
Back to my original dermaroller question and what info I've further read...a .02 mm roller needle is all that's needed to greatly help topicals get to where they need to go. I still ask myself this rolling of needles over a head with hair must cause some damage to the hair outside the head by maybe cutting or stabbing through the hair shaft. I'm debating if 'on my head' that process would actually cause more harm to the existing hairs on my head vs the positive thoughts of allowing a topical to get to the hair follicle itself.
Do I want a bloody head, well maybe if I had viable scars on a bald head to where collegian may over time lessen the scars themselves. Do I feel bleeding your scalp helps to "grow hair"...I'm just not digesting that, is there scientific proof it infact does?

And to answer your question about damaging hair, it doesn't matter because hair is dead to begin with. You can poke it, cut it, stab it, etc etc etc and your hair follicle will grow more hair.

[Herbaliser]

The point of this study wasn't to increase minox absorption. Some people do use smaller rollers to increase absorption but that can lead to some serious health issues in some because minox can get into your bloodstream and cause havoc.

The point of this study was to stimulate growth factors. Minox is used to keep the hair follicles in a growing phase so when the growth factors are triggered with the use of a dermaroller, they attach to the hair follicles which are trying to grow instead of turning into collagen.

So this your natural approach?
Could you share some pictures to us, since mine was not clear enough for you in my imaginary mirror?

[Vic]

Could "more bleeding" really be beneficial?
I somewhat understand the thoughts behind "wounding" the 'skin itself' but not how that affects the actual dormant hair follicle has me scratching my head.
Back to my original dermaroller question and what info I've further read...a .02 mm roller needle is all that's needed to greatly help topicals get to where they need to go. I still ask myself this rolling of needles over a head with hair must cause some damage to the hair outside the head by maybe cutting or stabbing through the hair shaft. I'm debating if 'on my head' that process would actually cause more harm to the existing hairs on my head vs the positive thoughts of allowing a topical to get to the hair follicle itself.
Do I want a bloody head, well maybe if I had viable scars on a bald head to where collegian may over time lessen the scars themselves. Do I feel bleeding your scalp helps to "grow hair"...I'm just not digesting that, is there scientific proof it infact does?

You might want to take time to read the study so you understand what this is all about. The point of rolling with a 1.5 isn't to increase the absorption of topicals. It's to generate growth factors near the follicles. Wounding triggers growth factors, you use rogaine to keep all follicles in growing phase so when growth factors are triggered, they attach to the hair follicle instead of becoming collegian.

[HMDWN]

im using a dermapen bought from Ebay and it's very cheap. spills more blood then a roller.

Could "more bleeding" really be beneficial?
I somewhat understand the thoughts behind "wounding" the 'skin itself' but not how that affects the actual dormant hair follicle has me scratching my head.
Back to my original dermaroller question and what info I've further read...a .02 mm roller needle is all that's needed to greatly help topicals get to where they need to go. I still ask myself this rolling of needles over a head with hair must cause some damage to the hair outside the head by maybe cutting or stabbing through the hair shaft. I'm debating if 'on my head' that process would actually cause more harm to the existing hairs on my head vs the positive thoughts of allowing a topical to get to the hair follicle itself.
Do I want a bloody head, well maybe if I had viable scars on a bald head to where collegian may over time lessen the scars themselves. Do I feel bleeding your scalp helps to "grow hair"...I'm just not digesting that, is there scientific proof it infact does?

[HMDWN]

im using a dermapen bought from Ebay and it's very cheap. spills more blood then a roller.

Could "more bleeding" really be beneficial?
I somewhat understand the thoughts behind "wounding" the 'skin itself' but not how that affects the actual dormant hair follicle has me scratching my head.
Back to my original dermaroller question and what info I've further read...a .02 mm roller needle is all that's needed to greatly help topicals get to where they need to go. I still ask myself this rolling of needles over a head with hair must cause some damage to the hair outside the head by maybe cutting or stabbing through the hair shaft. I'm debating if 'on my head' that process would actually cause more harm to the existing hairs on my head vs the positive thoughts of allowing a topical to get to the hair follicle itself.
Do I want a bloody head, well maybe if I had viable scars on a bald head to where collegian may over time lessen the scars themselves. Do I feel bleeding your scalp helping to "grow hair"...I'm just not digesting that, is there scientific proof it infact does?

[TheKingofFighters]

im using a dermapen bought from Ebay and it's very cheap. spills more blood then a roller.

[HMDWN]

Peach fuzz is 1.5 to 2mm below the skin. Terminal hairs are 3-4mm below the skin. We might be playing Russian Rulette with the peach fuzz but the rest are safe.

Thank you for that info!

[Vic]

Peach fuzz is 1.5 to 2mm below the skin. Terminal hairs are 3-4mm below the skin. We might be playing Russian Rulette with the peach fuzz but the rest are safe.

[HMDWN]

Hi people, long time lurker and have read many-many topic discussions.
BTW I'm 58 and always had an insane thick head of hair...but with age things are changing quick!
I'd like to bump this Dermarolling thread to ask two legitimate questions then, I'll be moving over to the RU5881 and Minoxidil threads for more questions.
So, with someone as my self that still has a considerable amount of hair on top yet, when shampooing I can now feel the tell tail horseshoe MPB pattern with my fingers. Also when exiting the shower I can see my scalp peeking through more and more vs lets say last year.
My dermaroller questions are...
1) wouldn't rolling a 1-1.5 mm roller over your scalp maybe damage existing hair follicles by harpooning them?
2) isn't there a possibility the roller needles cutting into and or shredding the existing hair?
Thanks to be here and for any advice and comments.