Male Pattern Baldness Cured

[top]

It's all bullshit, and your attempts at concealing the fact that you are the OP are laughable.

I am not the OP. Listen I noticed frontal hair loss about a year ago (age 28), I dismissed it, as it was only noticeable when my hair was short. I got a very short hair cut a couple weeks ago, and now I'm pretty sure I do have MPB. So now I've been spending a lot of the past few weeks reading online trying to figure out how to approach this problem. I've signed up to a few hairloss forums with the name top asking questions, and hoping to get some feedback.

Ok in simple terms, because I doubt you fully read my posts. Can you answer these then:

Why don't men suffering from MPB go straight to a Norwood 7? Why is it gradual?
Does DHT cause hair loss?
Does increased testosterone produce more DHT?
Does heavy weight lifting produce more testosterone?
Does looking at porn, frequent sex/masturbation produce more testosterone?
Does testosterone not rise, and then peak (around age 30-40), and the begin to slowly fall as we age (in accordance to the graphs I posted)? (you called me on this point, so I want to know if it's bullshit or not)
Does the western diet not contribute to our higher levels of testosterone in contrast to those in Africa and Asia? (Japan having a somewhat western diet)

[top]

Well no, you described Propecia as a "testosterone reducer" - you also stated: "but mostly they will reduce your testosterone level", question: if Propecia does "a number of things" (with blocking 5AR conversion as its primary mechanism) - how can it "mostly reduce testosterone"? Unless you actually believe it's primary mechanism is to reduce testosterone, your above quote suggests not, but your previous comments suggests the opposite - you EVEN made the ridiculous claim that Propecia/DHT blockers would reduce testosterone by up to 20 percent, which would mean someone at the age of 25 taking propecia would end up with the testosterone levels of a 55-60 year old.

Actually my quote above suggests that I'm willing to concede that that argument as it is beneath the point. The point again being that if this is your equation:

Testosterone * X = DHT => Hairloss.

Then whether you reduce X (using Propecia) or if you reduce Testosterone (using other methods), you will reduce DHT, and in turn Hairloss.

It doesn't matter the method by which Propecia accomplishes this. Whether it reduces Testosterone or reduces X (the 5AR conversion factor), the result is the same. Lowered DHT.

As has been said a castration would result in drastically lowered testosterone and therefore DHT. But you seem so vehemently convinced that it's not, I'd only be led to assume that you have personally tried this yourself!

[RichardDawkins]

DHt works like a sand corn in a gear. Stem cell types cannot interact with each other anymore, thats why your hair gets not sufficient nutricion and therefore minituarizes over time, until it remains under your skin in a small form.

[top]

DHt works like a sand corn in a gear. Stem cell types cannot interact with each other anymore, thats why your hair gets not sufficient nutricion and therefore minituarizes over time, until it remains under your skin in a small form.

Ok, now you're starting to talk . But what's your argument here? You're explaining to me the low-level workings. Is this in response to the "Why don't men suffering from MPB go straight to a Norwood 7? Why is it gradual?" question. If so, this is not the answer I'm looking for.

Here is the question again, with a picture this time:


Why don't men suffering from MPB go straight to a Norwood 7? The hair loss follows an expanding pattern. This suggests that the hair follicles have varying resistance to DHT. They are not all being "attacked" at the same time and/or at the same rate. If they were, the loss would be uniform, the 'M' pattern would not exist.

[RichardDawkins]

Has it occur to you that hairs have different cycles?

[top]

Has it occur to you that hairs have different cycles?

This is true, but I'd doubt the difference would be sufficient on the scalp to explain such progression of a receding frontal hairline, or an expanding baldspot at the vertex, and the reasons why hair loss slows/halts. Not everyone is destined to win the big prize. A Norwood 7! Usually it's the young players that win it:


Jean Luc began playing Norwood when he was 19. Look how well he did.

[BaldingBackwards]

Incorrect. You can ask the admin to do an IP trace. I don't know where they (whoever they are) are from. But I'm from London, UK. age 29, a computer games programmer of caribbean background. There you go. So now you are talking bullshit. I've highlighted your bullshit. Now highlight mine.

@UK: I'll level with you. Honestly, I'll hold my hands up, and tell you I don't know what Propecia does or doesn't do. It's speculation. Like most packaged drugs. In the UK we have Anadin, a painkiller, which is like a paracetomol, but they put caffeine in it, and a few other things. I'd imagine it's the samewith Propecia and all the other hair loss drugs. They have one main component, but other components that cover other things. The 20% figure I just made up, it's for argument sakes. It could be 5% could be 50%. Again I think the testosterone inhibitor is the main thing it does, but could be wrong. At the end of the day it doesn't matter whether it lowers testosterone, or whether it lowers 5AR conversion of testosterone to DHT. Either mechanism will result in lowered DHT. You do not have an argument there, you're just knit-picking.

Hi its the OP again guys just wanted to confirm with my readers that I have stated what my accounts are: ResearchNeverfails, BaldingBackwards, and BackwardsBalding. The Admin would be greatly appreciated if he would confirm this fact. FYI I live in California and if this gentleman is in the UK a simple confirmation from the admin WOULD BE NICE!! Any way thanks dude for you spin on things you made great points I appreciate the work.

[PatientlyWaiting]

So in other words there will never be a cure? Because no MPB sufferer is ever gonna stop wanking or having sex.

The only cure, for a long time, will be hair transplant, hair multiplication, hair whatever, it's all just hair surgery.


Right? So a pill will only slow down the process and so does minoxidil, and the only real cure is hair surgery at this point, and for a long time to come?

[top]

So in other words there will never be a cure? Because no MPB sufferer is ever gonna stop wanking or having sex.

The only cure, for a long time, will be hair transplant, hair multiplication, hair whatever, it's all just hair surgery.


Right? So a pill will only slow down the process and so does minoxidil, and the only real cure is hair surgery at this point, and for a long time to come?

Correct, it's not a cure. All I'm saying is that I think (note I said *Think*, I don't know for sure, I've spent no more than a few weeks looking into this), that testosterone level => DHT level => amount of DHT-sensitive hair that will miniaturise (all the scalp hair has varied tolerance of DHT-sensitivity forming a pattern in accordance to the Norwood scale).

Most of what I've said, is readily available information on the internet. That hairloss is due to testosterone breaking down into DHT affecting hair follicles. This is an accepted fact, no one disputes this. Further we know that diet, lifestyle, and sexual habits affect our level of testosterone, there are countless studies showing this, in most cases people do not dispute this. However it seems when the two are tied together, the whole entire argument and it's constituent facts are then labeled bullshit. Testosterone varies over age (peaking around age 30-40), there are countless studies which show this. A baby doesn't have the most testosterone, and neither does an elderly gentleman, there is a peak.

My input

The only part of my own theory that I'm putting into this is that I'm saying that testosterone level is proportional to DHT level which is in turn proportional to the extent of hair loss (rather than an on/off switch. "You are 25 years old, don't care how much testosterone you have, you will bald progressively in this pattern".). For many it appears as if DHT is like an army of infantry at your hair line, gradually eating away as it gets deeper to your crown (while for some they have this DHT army at their crown, and for others at both places. And for women they have it down the middle of their hair).

This would only make sense if under our scalp we had radically different blood artery configurations (which is what the OP is suggesting). I disagree with this assertion. I simply believe that the hair on our scalp is genetically coded to succomb to varying levels of DHT. For those with frontal balding, the hair follicles closest to your hairline at the temples have the lowest threshold or resistance to DHT. There is probably some evolutionary reason why we bald in different patterns, and a social reason could be a good argument. Perhaps MPB originated from those with dark hair, and fair skin (i.e. mediterraneans) as their balding patterns would be the most visible from a distance. But I'm not interested in the evolutionary reason.

I'm interested in the testosterone-hair loss relationship. How varying levels affect the extent of hair loss. If we know that this is the case. Then we know that as we age our testosterone is going to rise until peaking around 30-40, and as this rises so will our DHT and our hair loss will increase. So although we have no control over this progressive age-related testosterone increase. We can make conscious decisions to reduce further increasing our testosterone for sustained periods (e.g. excessive sex/masturbation, high protein diet, too much weight training). Further we know why DHT-blocking drugs appear to 'wear off' (they lower DHT a bit, e.g. 5-10%, but as we age, our testosterone will increase, and this 5-10% loss from Propecia is cancelled out.).

Note: Libido/Erections/Sex Drive is dependent on your level of DHT, not testosterone. So a drug like Propecia whether it was purported to lower testosterone or DHT conversion, it would still be destined to lower your libido. Of course the biggest sex organ in the male body is in the brain. So despite lower DHT or testosterone, if you think the right way, you'll be able to get a strong erection. Whereas with all the testosterone in the world, you could even be in the middle of the act, but if someone calls you and tells you something that distracts you, let's say a close relative just died, then your erection will quickly subside. Point I'm making is that of understanding how Propecia alters DHT level, and that it likely only alters your DHT a little. Which for most people is progress, but if you tamper with your testosterone level (or you age), then the losses will be offset. But still better having the drug than not having the drug from a purely hair loss perspective. But on the wider picture, it seems quite a dangerous drug with regards to sexual dysfunction.

So if it's a choice of reducing your sex/masturbation rate from 2 times a day (14 times a week) to 3 times a week. Or taking Propecia and losing your sex drive so you won't want to have sex more than 3 times a week. It's the same difference.

Sex drive is trained. If you only have sex a few times a week, you don't feel you need it so much. If you have sex 2x a day, or masturbate 5 times a day. Then you'll be horny 24/7. I know I've been there. I love sex as much as the next person. But what really loves sex is testosterone. And if sex fuels testosterone. Then you have feedback loop. Too much sex/masturbation is not good IMO. It makes it hard to be productive at anything else in life. So that's why I'm making a conscious effort to lower my sex rate and masturbation rate. The last year, especially past 3-6 months. I've been having sex on average twice a day, sometimes having sex or masturbating 5+ times in a day. Incidentally it is now that I've began to notice my hair loss. I really don't think it's a coincidence. I used to masturbate a lot as a kid, but my average testosterone levels would've been way lower, I didn't even have facial hair back then. Maybe there is some truth behind the saying "Masturbation causes hairy palms" (you masturbate a lot, your testosterone & DHT go rise significantly, hair falls out, and you notice it on your hands when you brush your hair or shower).

[top]

Hi its the OP again guys just wanted to confirm with my readers that I have stated what my accounts are: ResearchNeverfails, BaldingBackwards, and BackwardsBalding. The Admin would be greatly appreciated if he would confirm this fact. FYI I live in California and if this gentleman is in the UK a simple confirmation from the admin WOULD BE NICE!! Any way thanks dude for you spin on things you made great points I appreciate the work.

Thanks for posting. The only thing we have in common is that we write too much.

Apologies for my long previous post. Just wanted to share my thoughts. You don't need to read it all.

I don't see why some people are so hostile here. I'm suffering just like the rest of you guys. If there was a pill that I could take for less than $10k to stop hair loss and get all my hair back I would. But until then I have to wait for the professionals to take a few more decades to come up with the solution to a potentially trillion dollar industry!

[PatientlyWaiting]

Correct, it's not a cure. All I'm saying is that I think (note I said *Think*, I don't know for sure, I've spent no more than a few weeks looking into this), that testosterone level => DHT level => amount of DHT-sensitive hair that will miniaturise (all the scalp hair has varied tolerance of DHT-sensitivity forming a pattern in accordance to the Norwood scale).

Most of what I've said, is readily available information on the internet. That hairloss is due to testosterone breaking down into DHT affecting hair follicles. This is an accepted fact, no one disputes this. Further we know that diet, lifestyle, and sexual habits affect our level of testosterone, there are countless studies showing this, in most cases people do not dispute this. However it seems when the two are tied together, the whole entire argument and it's constituent facts are then labeled bullshit. Testosterone varies over age (peaking around age 30-40), there are countless studies which show this. A baby doesn't have the most testosterone, and neither does an elderly gentleman, there is a peak.

My input

The only part of my own theory that I'm putting into this is that I'm saying that testosterone level is proportional to DHT level which is in turn proportional to the extent of hair loss (rather than an on/off switch. "You are 25 years old, don't care how much testosterone you have, you will bald progressively in this pattern".). For many it appears as if DHT is like an army of infantry at your hair line, gradually eating away as it gets deeper to your crown (while for some they have this DHT army at their crown, and for others at both places. And for women they have it down the middle of their hair).

This would only make sense if under our scalp we had radically different blood artery configurations (which is what the OP is suggesting). I disagree with this assertion. I simply believe that the hair on our scalp is genetically coded to succomb to varying levels of DHT. For those with frontal balding, the hair follicles closest to your hairline at the temples have the lowest threshold or resistance to DHT. There is probably some evolutionary reason why we bald in different patterns, and a social reason could be a good argument. Perhaps MPB originated from those with dark hair, and fair skin (i.e. mediterraneans) as their balding patterns would be the most visible from a distance. But I'm not interested in the evolutionary reason.

I'm interested in the testosterone-hair loss relationship. How varying levels affect the extent of hair loss. If we know that this is the case. Then we know that as we age our testosterone is going to rise until peaking around 30-40, and as this rises so will our DHT and our hair loss will increase. So although we have no control over this progressive age-related testosterone increase. We can make conscious decisions to reduce further increasing our testosterone for sustained periods (e.g. excessive sex/masturbation, high protein diet, too much weight training). Further we know why DHT-blocking drugs appear to 'wear off' (they lower DHT a bit, e.g. 5-10%, but as we age, our testosterone will increase, and this 5-10% loss from Propecia is cancelled out.).

Note: Libido/Erections/Sex Drive is dependent on your level of DHT, not testosterone. So a drug like Propecia whether it was purported to lower testosterone or DHT conversion, it would still be destined to lower your libido. Of course the biggest sex organ in the male body is in the brain. So despite lower DHT or testosterone, if you think the right way, you'll be able to get a strong erection. Whereas with all the testosterone in the world, you could even be in the middle of the act, but if someone calls you and tells you something that distracts you, let's say a close relative just died, then your erection will quickly subside. Point I'm making is that of understanding how Propecia alters DHT level, and that it likely only alters your DHT a little. Which for most people is progress, but if you tamper with your testosterone level (or you age), then the losses will be offset. But still better having the drug than not having the drug from a purely hair loss perspective. But on the wider picture, it seems quite a dangerous drug with regards to sexual dysfunction.

So if it's a choice of reducing your sex/masturbation rate from 2 times a day (14 times a week) to 3 times a week. Or taking Propecia and losing your sex drive so you won't want to have sex more than 3 times a week. It's the same difference.

Sex drive is trained. If you only have sex a few times a week, you don't feel you need it so much. If you have sex 2x a day, or masturbate 5 times a day. Then you'll be horny 24/7. I know I've been there. I love sex as much as the next person. But what really loves sex is testosterone. And if sex fuels testosterone. Then you have feedback loop. Too much sex/masturbation is not good IMO. It makes it hard to be productive at anything else in life. So that's why I'm making a conscious effort to lower my sex rate and masturbation rate. The last year, especially past 3-6 months. I've been having sex on average twice a day, sometimes having sex or masturbating 5+ times in a day. Incidentally it is now that I've began to notice my hair loss. I really don't think it's a coincidence. I used to masturbate a lot as a kid, but my average testosterone levels would've been way lower, I didn't even have facial hair back then. Maybe there is some truth behind the saying "Masturbation causes hairy palms" (you masturbate a lot, your testosterone & DHT go rise significantly, hair falls out, and you notice it on your hands when you brush your hair or shower).

It's okay, I read it all, I have no problem reading.

This was a very informative post for me since I really don't know much about hair loss. I started receding at 16, i'm 22 now, i'm probably a NW2-2.5 thanks to finasteride and minoxidil slowing down my hair loss.


So when Finasteride starts to "wear off", all you have to do is up the dosage or just switch to Dutasteride, and add another 5-10 years to the slow down process until DHT just peaks on it's own at 30-40 years old? Or whatever, just reduce the times you have sex or wank, like you said "same difference", right? I feel like jumping on Dut right now, because although Fin has slowed down my hair loss, actually it seemingly stopped it entirely and probably grew very little back, i'll go with just maintained just to be modest. But the problem is, I got no sides, I didn't get low libido or whatever. I am still as horny as ever, I jerk off, I still wanna have sex and all that good stuff lol...but Finasteride seems to be working for me either way, as it has maintained what I have.

So what do you think is going on here?

[top]

It's okay, I read it all, I have no problem reading.

This was a very informative post for me since I really don't know much about hair loss. I started receding at 16, i'm 22 now, i'm probably a NW2-2.5 thanks to finasteride and minoxidil slowing down my hair loss.


So when Finasteride starts to "wear off", all you have to do is up the dosage or just switch to Dutasteride, and add another 5-10 years to the slow down process until DHT just peaks on it's own at 30-40 years old? Or whatever, just reduce the times you have sex or wank, like you said "same difference", right? I feel like jumping on Dut right now, because although Fin has slowed down my hair loss, actually it seemingly stopped it entirely and probably grew very little back, i'll go with just maintained just to be modest. But the problem is, I got no sides, I didn't get low libido or whatever. I am still as horny as ever, I jerk off, I still wanna have sex and all that good stuff lol...but Finasteride seems to be working for me either way, as it has maintained what I have.

So what do you think is going on here?

I think the ideal strategy would be to get testosterone checks every 6 months to monitor changes. I've thought about doing this, but what do you tell you doctor? "Hey doc, can you check my testosterone, because I think mine is too high". Better yet, if there is a way to monitor DHT levels then all the better.

Finasteride (lol sounds like an asteroid), is keeping your DHT in check. You're just a young horny guy.

The equation to getting an erection:

Testosterone + Mind = Erection.

Even though testosterone rises, and peaks at age 30-40 (as shown in the countless graphs I've posted here, if anyone wants to contest this, we can arrange a time and place ). Younger men have higher libido, it's been commonly said that 18 year old men are better repeaters (i.e. can have sex multiple times with very short breaks between ejaculation), whereas when guys hit 30 it's like once a day or every two days etc. I think this is a generalisation (I'm nearly 30, and have done many 7 round late night battles with the opposite sex, although I admittedly lost my virginity very late.) I think it's more a case of as you have sex over the years, it becomes less exciting, and that most of these studies don't take into the fact that most of the older guys are married and are having married sex (which is very boring, unless by married sex we're talking about doing someone else's wife ).

Alas, I do fear, PatientlyWaiting. That Mr Norwood has got something very special in store for you. Take a good look at Jean Luc Picard:



Your latent testosterone is gonna rise for another 15 years. Even if you quit spanking the monkey, and stay on finasterid, disasteroid, and whateveroid, Mr Norwood will have a nice number for you. Lucky number Norwood 7.

[Jcm800]

@Top - Ok - i'm one of the older guy's around here - just turned 42 - started losing my hair mid-late 20's, but - it's only hit home at the age of 38-39 that i'm heading for doom and it's becoming noticeable.

The process thankfully for me, has been very very slow, but - through my 20's and 30's i was wanking, shagging constantly - very often, and my hairloss was slooow, hardly noticeable.

Now i'm in my early 40's, seldom spank the monkey (can't be arsed) and have sex maybe one night every week and lately my hair loss has increased - it's falling faster than ever, how do you explain that?

Ok, i use Minox on my hairline - that may be inducing a hairline shed, but all over it's thinning on top.

So to me, in my 40's - i'm going through worse hairloss than ever, what you state doesn't add up regarding age?

[PatientlyWaiting]

@ Top.

Yeah, don't even remind me where i'm heading. It is depressing knowing that.

Here is a pic of my head shaved with a 1 clip earlier this month.





For a 22 year old it is pretty bad...and 2 years ago, it was even worse than it is now. I am not even going to show you the pics of 2009, because they are just so bad.


This is my hair grown out, it is me just that I have a tan. This picture is very deceiving, at that point I let my hair grow for a long time and that is all I could get. The hairline is not really my hairline, is just hair covering my forehead and I just cut it straight with a scissor. Basically you can lift up that hair on my forehead and see the actual recession, and you can see the recession on the right temple, here it is:






Basically the only thing that kills me is my right temple, and I wish my hairline was lower. But if I let my hair grow out enough, I can basically cover my forehead a bit, and with a little help from Toppik I can conceal whatever noticeable thinning thee is.

But yeah, in 2009, it was a disaster. So Fin and Minoxidil has done a lot for me. And i'm also reducing the amount of times I jerk off or have sex. I'm doing everything I can to keep what I have and possibly regrow...that's why i'm interested in this thread.

[Bald26]

Thanks for posting. The only thing we have in common is that we write too much.

Apologies for my long previous post. Just wanted to share my thoughts. You don't need to read it all.

I don't see why some people are so hostile here. I'm suffering just like the rest of you guys. If there was a pill that I could take for less than $10k to stop hair loss and get all my hair back I would. But until then I have to wait for the professionals to take a few more decades to come up with the solution to a potentially trillion dollar industry!

I just ignore some of the old posters now. They've been saying i'm the OP. The admin can testify this.

anyways, i've been abstaining from wanking for 7 days now. But I had s3x three times last weekend... Haven't seen any improvement in shedding yet. But I feel much more productive somehow. Will keep you guys updated.