Is there honestly anything other than the big 3 worth looking into?

[tiredbancini]

Hi All,

I'm a mid-twenties male with MPB and I have a simple question aimed at those with significant experience in these forums (someone like Desmond): Is there anything worth looking at besides the big 3 (minox, propecia, niz)?

I currently take rogaine and niz, and am likely starting propecia soon. Just a casual look throughout all of the forums, however, leaves one inundated with other options, including: topical propecia, s5 cream, RU, revivogen, bespoke, stronger minox (15%), and others.

I know that there are a ton of forums covering this, and trust me, I've looked through them. But doing so has honestly left me with more questions than answers. I view most vitamin and natural cures as snake oil. but some of the medications listed above seem promising (especially topical propecia, which my derm prescribed).

So in short: Is there anything else worth taking a strong look at? I'm hoping to definitively get an answer from those who have clearly demonstrated their experience in this area through this forum (which, I consider to be the definitive place for honest talk regarding balding meds). Apologies if this has been answered before, but I couldn't find it, and I think storing this answer in one place could be really helpful for those looking for an answer.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4289931/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4289931/

[Louish]

Yeah that makes sense. Thanks. Can you also answer my last question about minoxidil?

From what I know minox is inhibiting the hydroxylation of Lysine in vitro. This is a crucial step because the different collagen polypeptides are link together via an Hydrogen bond called Schiff base and without it collagen structure will be deficient. A problem well known with Scurvy as vitamin C is a mandatory coenzyme for said hydroxylation. That being said, in vivo studies didn't replicate those results from what I have read. Anyway minox barely works for it's intended purpose, it's a pain to apply and you mess with your blood pressure on a daily basis. I would never touch it either.

[Vantage]

All this is very well known but since the long term conséquences are difficult to quantify since they would require long term follow ups (who would pay for it?) it is easier to accept a comforting lie and focus on the occurrence of short term usual side effects like impotence and gynecomastia. More money for big pharma and more hair for the average self conscious MPB sufferer.

Yeah that makes sense. Thanks. Can you also answer my last question about minoxidil?

[Louish]

Thanks for the interesting details. Has this potential effect on long term testosterone been shown in studies?

And how about minoxidil? Is that safe long term? What do you think of the acclaimed side effect by some, claiming that it increases aging/decreases collagen production?

All this is very well known but since the long term conséquences are difficult to quantify since they would require long term follow ups (who would pay for it?) it is easier to accept a comforting lie and focus on the occurrence of short term usual side effects like impotence and gynecomastia. More money for big pharma and more hair for the average self conscious MPB sufferer.

[Vantage]

For starters, all that testosterone that did not convert into DHT will mostly end up as estrogen. Higher estrogen will then signal your body to slow down on testosterone production then in the end you will lower your testosterone as well. This is why bodybuilders take anti-estrogen after using steroids because the higher estrogen levels keep testosterone production low. This image can you give you an idea.[ATTACH=CONFIG]55266[/ATTACH]

Thanks for the interesting details. Has this potential effect on long term testosterone been shown in studies?

And how about minoxidil? Is that safe long term? What do you think of the acclaimed side effect by some, claiming that it increases aging/decreases collagen production?

[Louish]

Very interesting. I've always been highly skeptical of the idea that one could take a drug that lowers DHT with 40% while not affecting anything else.

For starters, all that testosterone that did not convert into DHT will mostly end up as estrogen. Higher estrogen will then signal your body to slow down on testosterone production then in the end you will lower your testosterone as well. This is why bodybuilders take anti-estrogen after using steroids because the higher estrogen levels keep testosterone production low. This image can you give you an idea.

[Vantage]

The short version is : DHT, Test, Estrogen, Cortisol etc.. are all Cholesterol derivatives. They are in balance with each other to regulate countless metabolic processes. If you upset that balance you will not be healthy. You don't need to have a decease to be unhealthy. I would lose my hair any day before I take this garbage. Doctors are clueless about those things they barely do any biochemistry and they just rely on the good faith of those making the studies.

Very interesting. I've always been highly skeptical of the idea that one could take a drug that lowers DHT with 40% while not affecting anything else.

[Louish]

What are your thoughts about the long term effects of propecia? As far as I know it decreases DHT with 40%.

The short version is : DHT, Test, Estrogen, Cortisol etc.. are all Cholesterol derivatives. They are in balance with each other to regulate countless metabolic processes. If you upset that balance you will not be healthy. You don't need to have a decease to be unhealthy. I would lose my hair any day before I take this garbage. Doctors are clueless about those things they barely do any biochemistry and they just rely on the good faith of those making the studies.

[Vantage]

I hope your hair look good because suppressing about 90% of a critical hormone will come at a price in the long run.

What are your thoughts about the long term effects of propecia? As far as I know it decreases DHT with 40%.

[Louish]

It might be that I respond better to dut. However, I'm not going to risk ditching fin. in case the regrowth is due to the combo. I'm comfortable taking both but I wouldn't necessarily recommend doing this. I'm also going to double up dut. month-on-month, but again, this is me being willing to experiment, not something I'd encourage.

I hope your hair look good because suppressing about 90% of a critical hormone will come at a price in the long run.

[TobyJay]

It might be that I respond better to dut. However, I'm not going to risk ditching fin. in case the regrowth is due to the combo. I'm comfortable taking both but I wouldn't necessarily recommend doing this. I'm also going to double up dut. month-on-month, but again, this is me being willing to experiment, not something I'd encourage.

[BaldingHelpMe]

I'm taking both.

Thanks for your reply. So you've been taking fin for the last 3 years which didn't do much for your hair loss, so you added dut and started taking both which gives you some regrowth? How long have you been taking both?

Are you planning to keep taking both? Or are you going to drop fin eventually?

[TobyJay]

When you say added dut, do you mean taking both fin and dut? Or switching fin to dut instead?

I'm taking both.

[Vantage]

Never underestimate the power of placebo effect

True, placebo effects can be strong. Some of those studies though were placebo controlled with a sham device.

I have a highend Theradome I will gladly sell to you if you really believe in it. No wires, super light and off course a good discount.

Thanks for the offer. Somehow Theradome seems to get worse reviews. Not sure why.

I'm currently using iRestore. I was considering 'upgrading' to a 128 diodes device from China, if they're worth it. Can't find any reviews though.

If you get to read those studies I linked to above I'll be interested in hearing your opinion.

[Louish]

I have a highend Theradome I will gladly sell to you if you really believe in it. No wires, super light and off course a good discount.