My before and after 8 week igrow progress

[Jazz1]

From the looks of it you don't have sever MPB, your using minoxidil so you can not claim the igrow is working on you..... As I got thickening and regrowth from minoxidil. If you really believe and want to Proove yourself wrong I dare you to stop minoxdidol, il bet you the igrow will do nothing saving your growth hairs. I'm not having a dig at you as you seem like a great guy and you have good results but you need stop sounding like the igrow is a cure, people here have wasted enough time, false hopes and plenty money etc it's not fair.

So let's sum things up, if you guys have halted hairloss from the big 3 then yes laser helmets may help to some extent just dont expect the following:

Lasers alone won't save your hair

Laser maintain hair

Lasers stimulate vellus hairs

Lasers are not the cure

Lasers are just an addition the super treatments like fine, minoxidil, ketoconozole.

[thechamp]

Email from igrow

Michael,

Well, I’ve found a little time so I have the short AND the longer answer for you. I actually gave a presentation on this very subject at a medical convention a few weeks ago, so fortunately I already have some of it handy. I know that anything I say might be seen as a little biased, but I’ll try to limit most of it to general information on the technology that you may find useful.

The short answer is that what this “Overmachogrande” is saying about both the use of LED and power levels for this technology is simply not true, though I’m sure it’s no surprise that someone selling a different machine recommends against the iGrow. I come across the “more lasers means better results” argument from time to time, and it’s usually a good indication that the person speaking is not particularly educated on the underlying technology, especially when the supporting evidence they give seems to consist mainly of pointing out that “everyone knows” it. Personally, I prefer to think he’s probably just misinformed rather than deliberately spreading misinformation.

Here’s the longer, more in-depth answer:

Low Level Light Therapy (or “LLLT” for short) has been used by medical doctors for years to treat not only hair loss but a variety of conditions such as acne, hyperpigmentation, wound healing, inflammation and minor pain management. Just as drugs have appropriate dosages, there is an optimal wavelength and power for each condition which yields the best results. The optimally effective LLLT range for treating hair loss is 650-670nm wavelength delivered at 3-4 Joules per cm2 using non-thermal laser diodes, high-output LED, or a combination of the two. The effects are cumulative, and require consistent treatment over time but there is no evidence that increasing the power ratio, regardless of number of diodes used, increases results- in fact, studies indicate that there can be a sharp drop-off in efficacy with overstimulation of the cells.

It’s true that in the early days LLLT it was thought that one needed the focused intensity of laser delivery to be effective, but that was many years ago and, given about ten years of scientific evidence to the contrary, is long outdated and all clinical LLLT treatments for skin disorders used in dermatology practices contain only LED. The use of both lasers and LED delivery is accepted, routine and supported by the research teams of every major clinical study over the last decade. Specific to treating hair loss, it’s also recognized by, among others: the American Academy of Dermatology, the Intl. Society of Hair Restoration Surgeons, the American Society for Lasers in Medicine & Surgery, the Wellman Center for Photomedicine, Harvard Medical School, the US Dept. of Health, the USFDA and the Canadian Ministry of Health.

The iGrow itself uses a combination of 21 lasers and 30 clinical-grade LED at 655nm wavelength to produce 4 joules per cm2. Given the above and the fact that the iGrow's award-winning clinical trials showed the highest regrowth of any FDA-cleared hair loss treatment, a better question than why the iGrow uses LEDs is… why doesn't everyone?

There is no shortage of LLLT devices on the market of varying quality and cost. When looking for a product or treatment device, it’s very easy to get lost wading through such things as specifications, number of lasers, power, etc., and I’ve found it’s easier to just boil it all down to what’s important. Essentially, results for LLLT do not depend on the number of diodes used, whether they are laser or LED or many other distractions often raised. Instead, all the recent scientific data on light therapy for hair loss shows that the best results rely on three things:

1) Using the right wavelength (650-670nm),
2) at the optimal power output (3-4 joules per cm2), and finally
3) consistent treatment over time.

Taken together, this means it really just comes down to finding a device that has #1 & #2, and doing #3 for long enough to see results. (Naturally purchasing a well-made device from a company which stands behind it for warrantees, customer service, etc. isn’t a bad idea either.)

This isn’t to say that the device Mr. Overmachogrande sells won’t work- it might work very well for all I know but I simply don’t have much information about it other than “it’s got a lot of lasers”. I’d certainly be happy to compare the iGrow’s clinical trial results and medical efficacy clearances against his if he would care to provide them for review.

In conclusion (it does seem like a speech, doesn’t it?), Apira Science is not new to the industry, having produced the world’s most widely used clinical hair laser (the Revage670) for over 12 years. We designed the iGrow as a convenient way to provide LLLT at home by combining the most effective wavelength at the optimal power delivery in an easy-to-use package, then subjected it to clinical trials which showed the best results of any device or treatment in the industry. These studies were double blind, placebo-controlled, vetted, reviewed and cleared by the USFDA and Health Canada then published in peer-reviewed medical journals. The iGrow also comes with a six-month Satisfaction Guarantee to allow someone to give it a fair trial to evaluate whether this type of treatment is effective for them.

I hope this covers what you needed. Below is my contact info and the office number rings directly to my desk. Please give me a call if I can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,

Jonathon Graff


Director of Sales
Apira Science I

[akai]

Is there any more surefire way of making money than creating some scam product that claims to cure or treat hair loss? Even with all the information out there people continue to buy overpriced supplements, shampoos, devices, etc. that do nothing at all to address hair loss.

This entire thread is an experiment in the power of cognitive dissonance. I understand the desperation associated with hair loss, but some of you take a pragmatic look at this issue and not be so eager to open your wallet.

[thechamp]

Igrow email

Michael,

Well, I’ve found a little time so I have the short AND the longer answer for you. I actually gave a presentation on this very subject at a medical convention a few weeks ago, so fortunately I already have some of it handy. I know that anything I say might be seen as a little biased, but I’ll try to limit most of it to general information on the technology that you may find useful.

The short answer is that what this “Overmachogrande” is saying about both the use of LED and power levels for this technology is simply not true, though I’m sure it’s no surprise that someone selling a different machine recommends against the iGrow. I come across the “more lasers means better results” argument from time to time, and it’s usually a good indication that the person speaking is not particularly educated on the underlying technology, especially when the supporting evidence they give seems to consist mainly of pointing out that “everyone knows” it. Personally, I prefer to think he’s probably just misinformed rather than deliberately spreading misinformation.

Here’s the longer, more in-depth answer:

Low Level Light Therapy (or “LLLT” for short) has been used by medical doctors for years to treat not only hair loss but a variety of conditions such as acne, hyperpigmentation, wound healing, inflammation and minor pain management. Just as drugs have appropriate dosages, there is an optimal wavelength and power for each condition which yields the best results. The optimally effective LLLT range for treating hair loss is 650-670nm wavelength delivered at 3-4 Joules per cm2 using non-thermal laser diodes, high-output LED, or a combination of the two. The effects are cumulative, and require consistent treatment over time but there is no evidence that increasing the power ratio, regardless of number of diodes used, increases results- in fact, studies indicate that there can be a sharp drop-off in efficacy with overstimulation of the cells.

It’s true that in the early days LLLT it was thought that one needed the focused intensity of laser delivery to be effective, but that was many years ago and, given about ten years of scientific evidence to the contrary, is long outdated and all clinical LLLT treatments for skin disorders used in dermatology practices contain only LED. The use of both lasers and LED delivery is accepted, routine and supported by the research teams of every major clinical study over the last decade. Specific to treating hair loss, it’s also recognized by, among others: the American Academy of Dermatology, the Intl. Society of Hair Restoration Surgeons, the American Society for Lasers in Medicine & Surgery, the Wellman Center for Photomedicine, Harvard Medical School, the US Dept. of Health, the USFDA and the Canadian Ministry of Health.

The iGrow itself uses a combination of 21 lasers and 30 clinical-grade LED at 655nm wavelength to produce 4 joules per cm2. Given the above and the fact that the iGrow's award-winning clinical trials showed the highest regrowth of any FDA-cleared hair loss treatment, a better question than why the iGrow uses LEDs is… why doesn't everyone?

There is no shortage of LLLT devices on the market of varying quality and cost. When looking for a product or treatment device, it’s very easy to get lost wading through such things as specifications, number of lasers, power, etc., and I’ve found it’s easier to just boil it all down to what’s important. Essentially, results for LLLT do not depend on the number of diodes used, whether they are laser or LED or many other distractions often raised. Instead, all the recent scientific data on light therapy for hair loss shows that the best results rely on three things:

1) Using the right wavelength (650-670nm),
2) at the optimal power output (3-4 joules per cm2), and finally
3) consistent treatment over time.

Taken together, this means it really just comes down to finding a device that has #1 & #2, and doing #3 for long enough to see results. (Naturally purchasing a well-made device from a company which stands behind it for warrantees, customer service, etc. isn’t a bad idea either.)

This isn’t to say that the device Mr. Overmachogrande sells won’t work- it might work very well for all I know but I simply don’t have much information about it other than “it’s got a lot of lasers”. I’d certainly be happy to compare the iGrow’s clinical trial results and medical efficacy clearances against his if he would care to provide them for review.

In conclusion (it does seem like a speech, doesn’t it?), Apira Science is not new to the industry, having produced the world’s most widely used clinical hair laser (the Revage670) for over 12 years. We designed the iGrow as a convenient way to provide LLLT at home by combining the most effective wavelength at the optimal power delivery in an easy-to-use package, then subjected it to clinical trials which showed the best results of any device or treatment in the industry. These studies were double blind, placebo-controlled, vetted, reviewed and cleared by the USFDA and Health Canada then published in peer-reviewed medical journals. The iGrow also comes with a six-month Satisfaction Guarantee to allow someone to give it a fair trial to evaluate whether this type of treatment is effective for them.

I hope this covers what you needed. Below is my contact info and the office number rings directly to my desk. Please give me a call if I can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,

Jonathon Graff
Director of Sales
Apira Science I

[Jcm800]

Whats Promox?

[Jazz1]

Whats Promox?

Mixture of finesteride, progesterone, azelaic acid and minoxidil in topical form, best form is the DMI spray version and I also use the tretinoin lotion on temples only.

[Jcm800]

Thanks, I've since seen it, Dr Klein? It's only available from him in the States? I'm in the UK, too expensive with shipping on top..

[doke]

Look iv used Promox lotion for a year great results, I added Promox spray ontop, plus Dactokart was recommended by a friend who had AA and all his hair started growing back so my opinion stands and I know 100% it's the cream and Promox spray working on the regrowth not the igrow. I don't think our statements are fair on people on this forum giving them false hopes a laser helmet will cure and stop AGA, I'm sorry but nothing beat the big 3, lasers are just the icing on the cake don't expect regrowth not even maintaining unless your saving your hair from the big 3. How many trials have they done on people who have severe MPB alone on the igrow, come on man it's like saying the igrow can grow every NW7 bald scalp....never. I'm saying this again it's not the igrow that has worked on me it's the cream and Promox.

Hi Jazz can you tell me the antifungal cream i still have some how do you use it? do you use it neat or mix it with something? do you use any retina a? also i have some lipogaine minox i may use it with have you tried that minox?

[Jazz1]

Thanks, I've since seen it, Dr Klein? It's only available from him in the States? I'm in the UK, too expensive with shipping on top..

If you can't afford the tretinoin version lotion try finding a tretinoin cream with 0.25% in it that should do.

[Jazz1]

Hi Jazz can you tell me the antifungal cream i still have some how do you use it? do you use it neat or mix it with something? do you use any retina a? also i have some lipogaine minox i may use it with have you tried that minox?

I hated lipogaine made my hair worse, just use regular regaine foam is good, I cant say much about the anti fungal cream alone as one I'm using has 1% hydorcortisone in it. Best is use the cream I'm using and get some 0.25% tretinoin use derma roller like I said and minoxdidol. Once once you started getting regrowth you can cut them cream to once a week or maybe twice from what I read that's what Dr brown recommended for the Saba gel.

[doke]

I hated lipogaine made my hair worse, just use regular regaine foam is good, I cant say much about the anti fungal cream alone as one I'm using has 1% hydorcortisone in it. Best is use the cream I'm using and get some 0.25% tretinoin use derma roller like I said and minoxdidol. Once once you started getting regrowth you can cut them cream to once a week or maybe twice from what I read that's what Dr brown recommended for the Saba gel.

Many thanks jazz i have just found some Daktacort cream Hydrocortisone and miconazole nitrate mix,its ony a 15g tube i wonder how long that should last for do you apply it neat all over the scalp? and can i mix retina a with it or should i apply that just to shiny bald spots ie: temple and crown? and do you apply minox foam before or after the cream.

[Jazz1]

No need apply cream all over, just apply small spots slightly around mid points etc. I apply cream first then half hour later minoxidil, get the prescription Dactokart cream as I don't know if the over the counter is any good plus you need store it in the fridge.

[doke]

Many thanks jazz is your promox the 5% or higher strenght minox version?

[Jazz1]

Many thanks jazz is your promox the 5% or higher strenght minox version?

I used first the lotion 15% tretinoin only temples and I got growth, then this year when I had alopecia areata I decided to buy his kits. So now I use lotion in the morning and night before bed I use the DmI 10% spray as I didn't want to use the tretinoin spray on the whole scalp as tretinoin can be irritating so be carefull how much you use etc. But the quality of my hair has got much better, chris from hairlosshelp unsigned Promox and he tried everything the DMI version working on him his scalp filled in. It's only worth adding these is your doing good on finesteride as finesteride only removes 60 odd percent internally I guess using topical helps remove the rest.

[doke]

I notice there was a trial of tretinoin with minoxidil and that a 0.5% strength showed good results, so that strength maybe better to use if 0.25% is causing irritation remember guys do not apply retina a during daytime as you should not go out into sunlight best used at nights.