What goes on behind the scenes

[topcat]

EJJ you are hitting on part of what I am referring to. Spencer made reference to an encounter with a doctor in Las Vegas but he doesn’t mention the doctor’s name, why? This is only one example of many of the secrecy that is often a part of this industry. It’s the fear of speaking the truth or when the truth is spoken it’s done in such a way that one has to cover their ass to the extreme. The Las Vegas doctor referred to I will guess might be Puig but I’m not sure and I’m not saying that it was for certain but it might be, but I could be completely wrong. You see that is how it works. And yes Puig butchered me when I was 23 even though it has nothing to do with this conversation but I can say it with comfort because I know it to be a fact as I was in the room so I don’t have to dance around the issue.

Those in the business need to dance around issues because this is how they make their living and they do it out of fear.

The repair patient that Spencer was referring to later in the show was me although he didn’t want to say my name. He was quite comfortable the previous show with saying my name but I suppose my recent postings maybe hit a nerve for someone in the industry. All I can say is just debate my points as I make them in postings. I’m not trying to create chaos but as a poster I find it insulting that someone would try and discredit me or minimize what I have to say. You don’t know me and you have no idea what I know. If you think I am trying to hurt someone you are mistaken. Does it bother me that this all seems to be a big game for those in the industry, yes.

If I write something out of line let me know but all my recent postings have been factual. If someone believes body/beard hair looks odd 100% of the time than you obviously have not view the proof when perfromed by skilled hands. If you believe larger punches are okay with fue than you have not viewed the evidence showing something different. If what I have written about reccommended lists is a lie please show me where what I have stated is not factual.

Roger you don’t understand my posting as you don’t understand the industry. This is not meant to insult you but to simply explain why you have no idea of what I’m even talking about.

[PayDay]

As you guys know I’m probably one of the biggest fans of The Bald Truth and have been listening for many years. Spencer Kobren does not pull any punches. He names names and is the only one who ever has. I don’t know what your problem is Topcat, but just because you scream loader does not make you right. I heard the show last night, I agree with Roger, you are just being ultra paranoid and are now making excuses for your rants because you’ve been outed as a fool.

[RichardDawkins]

Ok i make it short, i think that my persona created more buzz in the industry then others. At least i was called psycho.

But guess what i was right all along with Gho and possible HM treatments and thats what is going on behind the scenes.

Drs desperately try to get as much money as they can in the next two years or so and thats it.

Btw we will see a lot of clinics die out this and next year believe me.

Topcat you dance around the issues by not clearly saying whats going on, you are like IronMan.

Do it like me straight and direct to the point and BAM here we ****ing go

[topcat]

Attacking and name calling is how the industry operates. I have seen it over the years as most of the dozens and dozens of valuable posters that speak the truth have left the various forums as at some point it all becomes a waste of time. This is not good for prospective patients as all they are left with are those that work in the industry.

When put in perspective and compared to really important issues in the world the deception that goes on in the world of hair transplantation is very insignificant. I know this but it is still a personal issue for me.

RD I was referred to as a rapist by one clinic cheerleader and I was told that scarred patients that complained were simply hair grifters. It was explained to me that patients went around extorting free work from clinics with the threat of making false complaints on the internet. I guess the pictures of their scarring were not real so we are suppose to believe that. These are the real pyschos but they would have you believe it is the posters that call it out that are the pyschos.

[HelpROGER]

Don’t worry Topcat, I’m not insulted because nobody knows what you are talking about anyway. You are ranting about stuff that has not even been mentioned on this thread. I once knew a guy who thought actors were talking directly to him from the television, remind you of anyone? Even if it were true, who cares if Spencer was referring to you? What did he say that was so bad? I heard him say that people need to be careful of who they get their information from and that there are many people on the forums who make it like they are experts when they are not. Seems like good advice. You want everyone to drink your cool aid and just because we don’t you get your panties in a uproar.
All hail KING TOPCAT, Royal King of THE FORUMS

[topcat]

Roger the name calling does make me laugh.

Prospective patients at some point need to figure it out on their own and hopefully they have enough good information to make a good decision.

Roger I have been posting since about 1998 and I have followed the industry for about 25 years. I just might know a little more than you.

[HelpROGER]

This is what I know Topcat. Spencer Kobren and my mother, she found Spencer, literally saved my life and I think if he were around when you were thinking about having your first surgery that your life would be much different too. I don’t care if you’ve been around for 50 years, it does not mean you know it all or are an expert.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

I don't know and I cannot comment on what specifically was said on the show since I have yet to listen to it, although I've really got to make a point of it to start listening. I will say that this must be a very emotional topic for Topcat. I've read his very emotional posts in the past and it seems like he has really been to hell and back throughout much of his life as a victim of several botched hair transplants which have left his head permanently scarred and disfigured. Hair loss can be a very devastating and emotional topic, especially since there is no cure or viable treatment for it.
That being said, I don't think that Spencer has ulterior motives or is in cohoots with anyone attempting to try to deceive us. I think that Spencer is a great person for all that he does for us, everything from maintaining these message boards to bringing up interviews with people from Replicel and Histogen. I think he knows how much hair loss hurts us and is rooting for a cure as much we all are. And I have no doubt that he helps many people like HelpRoger in making informed decisions about their hair loss.
But I do believe that a lot of these hair transplant doctors are in fact part of some kind of inner circle or "fraternity" as Ejj says. They all have a large financial incentive to keep the hair transplant business alive and well, and attempt to do so by doing everything from downplaying new upcoming treatments, giving long timelines on hair cloning, and not trying anything to achieve hair regrowth besides moving hair from one place to another.

[Follicle Death Row]

For sure there's a lot of stuff the prospective patient doesn't catch wind of. There's definitely patient silence bought and we only really see the best results in clinic galleries. Re the new treatments in development I'm sure Spencer knows a good deal more than he's allowed to tell us. I kind of got the impression he was hinting at the prospect of one of the cellular therapies arriving a little sooner than some of us pessimists think but I might be wrong and overanalysing something he said to Joe from Staten island last month.

[ejj]

I have had many a consultation over the years , on all occassions at the clinic or drs premises,each and every time there is /was a seperate waiting area for consultation and a seperate area for follow up of patients , segregation for want of a better word ... why ??? to stop patients talking to each other , makes me wonder if the consultants feel threatened by experienced posters

I remember taking a wrong turn on a toilet break during a procedure and walking into the waiting area , that caused a panic with the consultants as three people just got up and left ! perhaps my pencil thin scar was not so pencil thin after all !

I think the industry like any other buisness has almost a ` management ` system in place and on various forums if your a poster then you should know your place and not question it , bit like office politics! Other forums just ` ban ` people that dont tow the party line , this forum does not which is good !

Perhaps experience within the industry without drawing an income from it just `rubbs ` people up the wrong way .

You can never know it all and there are developments talking place all the time information should be shared freely no matter where it comes from , be it Drs , reps or patients , unfortunatly we as patients sometimes find out the hard way whats good, whats not so good , at this point usually there is a
` wall of silence `like a gentlemans agreement` from within the industry circle , not to criticise another Dr or Clinic , this results in the repair patient feeling isolated and on there own , which i feel is disgraceful ! then vulnerable which is when they slap you with the legalities and remind you of what you signed !

I remember a clinic rep asking me " was i sure " that I had a bad experience from a particular clinic " was i sure " ?? ...... almost like trying to convince me i hadnt , then going into detail about how few complaints they have had over a ten year period unbeleivable hey ! , almost as unbeleivable for a lot of people to get there head round the fact that there are genuine people on a forum who just want to help others from suffering what they themselves have been through, for no financial gain for themselves ! reward comes in many forms not just cash !

all the best

ejj

[topcat]

Roger that’s nice that your mother took the time to do the research because she was old enough and mature enough to know better. Most of these young guys will not have mothers that are going to be doing that for them so they will rely on the information they have from the so called experts that work in the industry. The key word here is work in the industry.

I never used the word expert to describe myself as the sad fact in life is that most people believe in order to have any expertise one needs to be paid. No one knows this better than me as the value of free advice is zero for most people.

As many of the long time posters of the past have told me these young guys probably deserve their bad results even when it comes from doctors recommended by the paid experts. Those that believe I am angry about my own experiences of the past are completely off the mark. I am angry about what I continually see happening in this industry.

My suggestion to the majority of those considering a hair transplant is DO NOT HAVE A PROCEDURE that is the safest decision.

I also believe that those that are being paid to make recommendations and I have not singled out any one person so stop implying that I have. I include all that are being paid, they should be held fully responsible for the bad results patients experience when following those recommendations. Those patients should be made whole again financially along with being compensated for mental anguish. I believe this would be a fairer system and those that get paid to recommend would be extra cautious in who they recommend which is good for the patient.

If you are going to be paid you should accept responsibility.

[HelpROGER]

Topcat I know you think that you are a logical person, but what you say makes no sense. I was turned away by those recommended doctors. I was saved a great deal of money and possibly a lifetime of hell because of Spencer Kobren and his recommended doctors. And like Depressedbyhairloss said Spencer has probably helped thousands of people like me and it was free advice. None of us pay to get advice or to post on this forum or to listen to Spencer's show. I will also tell you that when I was a member of the hair transplant network I was solicited by private message in hours of making my first post. That has never happened here. I hear Spencer try to talk young unprepared people out of surgery on almost every show or at least get into their heads that there are risks with even the recommended doctors. You listen to the show, I am sure you hear this all the time too. I agree with you that the other forums are bogus and are just advertising websites, but to put Kobren into this category is sacrilege. Like ejj said, he even allows you to trash him on his own forum. I think that Spencer Kobren is a great person too and he helps all of us, including you Topcat, since he allows you to post on his forum to give your free advice. You are just like us a poster on a message forum that Spencer has given us. Please spare us your holier than thou attitude. You are just some know it all who posts on a free message forum.

[topcat]

Roger first off most that visit the forums are grown men and they do not have their mother’s helping them so you need to take that into consideration.

I’m am sure at this point the thread will be locked as it is going nowhere so moderator please feel free to lock it. I’m sure it has provided some entertainment value for those that work in the industry.

Roger I have not trashed anyone but your response is typical of someone who visits the forums and seems to cheer for a particular clinic or person.

For the readers and prospective patients. I suggest reading as many opinions as possible even those you might not agree with. Be especially careful of posters that try to dissuade others from posting their message, that is a red flag. Also be careful of clinics that treat patients poorly who come on to the forums and complain about their experience. How they handle those situations will be exactly how you are treated if you end up in the same shoes.

As far as what I would like to see happen in this industry I would like to see those that have been damaged in recent years go after the smaller players which would include paid consultants and internet posters. This would clean things up a bit and would be a very good start.

[ejj]

Roger

No were did I say` anyone was trashing anyone `.. I said and stand by the fact that I have seen patients post comments that I believe on other forums would probably result in them being banned , I agree that this forum is a good platform to share your views and experiences regardless of , if they are good or bad , or reccommended Dr or not

Were all just posters who share our views on the forum , then there are the reps, then the Drs , and every year they all meet up and have a `pow wow` and discuss ` the industry` ( behind the scenes ) .. , thus if you get a poor result its, in my opinion considered to be ` unproffessional ` to discuss it online openly by the industry insiders / employees , however there are one or two reps who will put there opinion forward and im thankful to them for that .

The definition of an expert according to wikipedia is " someone with extensive knowledge based on research ,experience or occupation in a particular area of study " , therefore I think repair patients with several or more procedures over twenty or so years are an equal if not better source of valuable information as believe me once your on the repair road you put the research in big time !!

If by sharing my experiences I help one person not to make the mistakes I have, then i regard my efforts as time well spent , from reading posts by other repair patients who contribute to the forums I believe they feel the same

regards

ejj

[sausage]

9 years ago I was at a place in my thoughts where I wanted to do something about my hairloss......eventually I realised nothing decent existed so tried to get on the best I could knowing there was nothing I could do.....

Here I am again after 9 years motivated by Wayne Rooney's full head of transplanted hair........but again I am left with negative thoughts about whats out there, who is being honest ie. people on here, surgeons etc. and being left with the same answer.......nothing decent exists.

Although Rooney's hair looks good, I assume he is wearing concealers so we cannot really see the actual outcome, we don't know if it will last.....

That added to this threads comments about people keeping us in the dark about new procedures also does not help. It is putting me off the transplant idea. If I was to get a transplant and it was not a success in my eyes or if some new amazing procedure came out shortly after I had spent a fortune on a transplant I'd be devastated, absolutely pissed-off.

There is too much uncertainty in the baldness cure world that I should probably keep away until if and when something concrete comes along.