Failed FUE surgery ??

[DepressedByHairLoss]

I understand your feelings, VictimOfDHT, in the last paragraph you wrote. I oftentimes think that my purpose on this earth was to endure a lifetime of suffering. Oftentimes I think that God can't make everyone happy and I'm one of those people that was unfortunately destined to live a life of misery. With all this misery I'm going through now, I'm beginning to question if there even is a god in the first place. I don't know what god would put us all through this hair loss misery. With me though, my misery is all related to hair loss. I had some problems before I started noticing my hair loss, but those were nothing major at all. However, once hair loss hit me, it totally altered and destroyed my otherwise good life. Everything has changed since hair loss hit me like a ton of bricks. I recently ran into a few weightlifting buddies that I haven't seen in about 6 years. What really killed me was that they looked totally the same now as they looked in 2005, while I look totally different because of my hair loss. They of course didn't comment on my hair loss though because I always wear a bandanna when I lift now. It just kills me because they used to know me back then as a big, confident guy and now I'm just a fragile shell of what I once was due to this goddamn hair loss curse.
Damn, this forum is supposed to be about loss of transplanted hair and I just went off on a major tangent!! Sorry for that!!

[VictimOfDHT]

Folly, I know what the doctor told you is probably one of the worst things anybody wants to hear, EVER. I remember when my HT doctor told me almost a year ago that I had this condition that caused my transplanted hair to fall out and that there was nothing I could about it. After 4500 grafts and a decade of going through one HT after the other it was one of the most devastating things to hear. I was literally numb from the shock. Add to that the ****ing most massive shed ever to hit me that left my hair thinner every where and I tell you, I wish I could just bury myself as far deep into the ground as I could. I just can't face life or the world any more, not that I ever could.

Not only am I not meant to have a full head of hair (at least in the front), but I'm not meant to have a life altogether. I guess I have a purpose on this ****ing planet -to suffer. And no, my suffering isn't limited to just my hair loss problems.

[Folly]

Hi Guys,

Just got hair/blood pathology results back today from my dermatologist. The blood work was normal and i don't have telogen effluvium. Just an agressive case of MPB. 8% of my hairs in the donor region are in the shedding phase (10% is average), which is normal. However, on the top of my head, 60% of my hairs are in the shedding phase, which he said is very high. Because it's shedding agressively up top and not at the back, he says it's just MPB and not telogen effluvium. I guess 60% of the hairs shedding on the top of my head explains why i'm seeing so much hair loss in the shower/pillow. Doesn't explain why none of my transplanted grafts grew though.

I've started propecia today. I'm praying i have no side effects and it actually works, but who knows. I feel like everything is conspiring against me nowadays. I'm probably feeling sorry for myself, but does anyone else ever feel like they're just not meant to have a full head of hair ?

[VictimOfDHT]

Im sorry to hear of your situation Victim of DHT . Being a severe repair patient myself , I understand how you feel .

It would be nice to see some of these ` top ` docs help you out financially to rectify your situation , after all they were only to willing to take your money when you were far too young for a procedure , and too inexperienced to know any better

Be nice if some Drs stepped up to the plate to help the victims this industry has created with some repair work or compensation to help you move on with your life

all the best

ejj

Thanks, ejj. I appreciate it.

As for the doctors helping out. No way that will ever happen. The world we live in is a sad world where greed and the love of money are what drive most of us. I've heard of cases where HT patients didn't get any growth after the transplant and they still didn't get any refund even a partial one.
It would be nice if people like me were charged a discounted price but no way that will ever happen in the world we live in.


Gillenator, thanks again.

[gillenator]

Thank you, gillenator. I appreciate it.
My father had the typical horse shoe baldness but it wasnt like those who barely have a couple of inches left at the back of their head. My uncles on my mother's side have thinning hair and receded hairlines but they don't have the typical horse shoe baldness and even the oldest uncle who's well into his 60's still isn't completely bald.
I'm waiting for the result of my biopsy but don't know if it will help in figuring out what the problem is.

Victim,

You are very welcome and glad to be of any help. I see so many cases over the years that the toughest almost always have MPB from both sides. Sounds like your father did in fact reach class 6. I see I already repied to your comments on your biopsy results.

[ejj]

Im sorry to hear of your situation Victim of DHT . Being a severe repair patient myself , I understand how you feel .

It would be nice to see some of these ` top ` docs help you out financially to rectify your situation , after all they were only to willing to take your money when you were far too young for a procedure , and too inexperienced to know any better

Be nice if some Drs stepped up to the plate to help the victims this industry has created with some repair work or compensation to help you move on with your life

all the best

ejj

[VictimOfDHT]

Folly, in a couple of months it will a year since I had that massive shed that made my frontal area look much thinner and still no regrowth. I used to have hope that what I was experiencing was some "seasonal shedding" but it doesn't look like it. I don't think I'm ever going to see that hair come back again. If it was going to grow back it would've done so by now. And the misery goes on with considering yet another HT- my SIXTH. It would be better if god just takes my life and put me out of this misery.

[Folly]

Sorry, not sure how you add URL links. Just search for 'The Best Graft Storage Solutions in Hair Transplantation' and it's the second link in google.

Sorry

[Folly]

Hey guys, check this link out. Apparently donor hair grafts can be left in the solutions for up to a day, without cell death. Read the second last paragraph. They extracted grafts from some guys donor area, then he was rushed to hospital due to an emergency. The grafts were left in a solution overnight and the grafts were placed in the recipient area the next day. This guy still had good growth according to the doc.

http://www.***************/hair-loss...ansplantation/

That's a bummer about the biopsy results VictimofDHT. At least your shed is over and those hairs you lost should be growing back. If the grafts are going through the normal minituarization process, i'm guessing you'll still have them for many more years before they dissapear (at least that's something ). Especially if you're taking propecia ?

My derm did a blood and hair pathology on me yesterday. Getting the results back on the 12th of this month. He says a biopsy is not needed yet. I'll let you know the outcome.

[VictimOfDHT]

Thanks, folly. Just this morning I got a call from the doctor and he told me the biopsy was negative or it didn't show anything, which I was expecting. So, I'm left with this puzzle now-what's happening to my hair. The doctor said there is a lot that remains unknown about why or what causes transplanted hairs to fall out in some people. So I don't know what to do now. He said I'd need at least 600 grafts to thicken my hairline -if I chose to get another HT- but I'm just terrified that I might lose a lot of those hairs too eventually, but at the same time I can't stand the look of my thinner hairline.

I think you made the same mistake I made- started HT way too early. My first one was 1000% unnecessary. My hair loss at that time wasn't even considered a loss but I was too terrified of baldness that I couldn't even bear the thought of losing 2 % of my hairline. I don't know but I feel an HT does cause some kind of damage to existing native hair and causes it to fall out faster than it would've without the HT.

I don't know that much about FUE process but I'd say 4 or 5 hours is too long for the grafts to be out. I'm sure you can find some info online or you can ask other doctors. My doctor says with FUEs the survival rate of grafts is much lower than that of FUTs and many grafts are lost. I just don't know if they're lost (damaged) during the surgery or are lost after they've been transplanted.

BTW, your hair doesn't look bad at all. You have more hair in front than I have now after 4500 grafts. I just hope I get some of the hair that was lost in the past few months in that massive shed I had. One thing I feel good about is that the shed has finally STOPPED as of 3 weeks ago and I'm pretty sure it's because I got back on Minoxidil (kirkland brand) after several months on some other useless crap that claimed 15% minoxidil content. Unfortunately, I too have lost about 25-30% of my hair during that short period.

[Folly]

Hi Gillenator,

Great and informative post. Thanks. I bought the USB microscope for £40 from Maplins (UK gadget store), which is ~ $60 i guess. It's well worth the purchase, because you can monitor the miniaturization process and see if medications are working for you with great accuracy. You can also calculate density and so forth, so it's a great purchase for $60.

My father (65 years old) is an NW4, but his father and grandfather died in the their 70s with full heads of hair. My mother's brother also has a full head of hair. The real tragedy here is i didn't really need the HT for another 3-4 years. I've attached a picture of my hairline and crown pre-op, which was last April. I just had some very minor thinning at the frontal hairline. I thought, i'll start using Minoxidil to keep my existing hair and i'll get a HT so i can have thick hairs in my hairline, so i can do some styling. If i could only go back in time !!! I've lost so much hair since April (at least 35% density) and my hairline has been hit the worst, because i was thinning there anyway.

My HT surgeon told me at my pre-op consultation that my miniaturization wasn't too bad past the hairline, so he he decided to give me a thick extravagant hairline. He said i should start taking propecia/Minoxidil to prevent future loss. My consultation with him was 1 month before my op and i had told him that i started minoxidil 1 month beforehand (2 months before op). So he knew I had recently started minoxidil. I unfortunately had a huge shed between the 1 month of my consult and surgery. When i turned up for the surgery, he was amazed how much hair i had lost within that month. You're definitely right about not starting any medications before a HT. I didn't give the Rogaine enough time to see if it was working. I had to stop the rogaine, because i wasn't sure if i was having a bad reaction. I was just shedding so much hair, i had to stop. I didn't mention, but around September time, i stopped shedding hair for about 3 weeks. But i started using the laser comb and then started to shed again, so i stopped that also. I didn't realise the comb was also going to make me shed. I've just stopped everything for now, praying that i can get back to where i was before surgery. If my hair all grows back, i plan on using Rogaine and the laser comb again. I'm not willing to try propecia yet, due to the possible side effects, although i may try it in the future.

Gillenator, do you know of any info/research available online regarding donor hair survival once out of the scalp as a function of time ? I may arrange another consultation with ANY HT surgeon to ellaborate on this point. My donor hairs were definitely out of my scalp for 5-6 hours. It will be such a tragedy if this is the reason none of my transplanted hair grow.

FYI : Next week i'll be 8 months post-op and i cannot see A SINGLE transplanted hair in my hairline with my USB scope. I've had 0% growth. OUCH !!!

Thanks Gillenator. Good luck with the biopsy results VictimofDHT !!

[VictimOfDHT]

Thank you, gillenator. I appreciate it.
My father had the typical horse shoe baldness but it wasnt like those who barely have a couple of inches left at the back of their head. My uncles on my mother's side have thinning hair and receded hairlines but they don't have the typical horse shoe baldness and even the oldest uncle who's well into his 60's still isn't completely bald.
I'm waiting for the result of my biopsy but don't know if it will help in figuring out what the problem is.

[gillenator]

Folly,

Thank you for sharing your story and for your transparency in all of the details. Your case is complex and yet there are some issues that I see in your case that extent beyond the scientific facts and also truths that we do know about the effects from HT surgery. And yet we also know that individuals respond differently to surgery as well as hairloss medications.

Let's start with your hairloss from the beginning. If your HT surgeon performed FUE on you was he also the one who made a "formal" diagnosis of MPB? You did not mention using Propecia (finasteride), have you used it and if so, how did you respond?

I am not a licensed physician yet IMHO, I find it VERY disturbing to read that your grafts sat in solution for that long of a period. The solutions do not prevent free radicals from attaching to your grafts nor do they stop the process of ischemia reprofusion of the tissue (decaying process) once the grafts are removed from the donor area and exposed to the environment. To my knowledge, these solutions are useless after an hour. It is also surprising to hear that only ONE tech was present and assisting. With adequate staffing in the OR, your grafts would have and SHOULD have been placed back into the scalp much sooner. 12-14 hours for that size procedure also sounds discomforting. Did they not offer to re-schedule? Or did you travel long distance to Europe? Sounds like it could be Dr. Bisanga? You don't have to say if you do not want to but consider this. What if you had not yet had your FUE and then you read an experience like yours? Would you not want to know that ahead of time?

Okay, let's move on. Your intial use of minoxidil that soon prior to surgery was IMHO a disaster. Did someone recommend that you start minoxidil prior to surgery? Did you surgeon know that? Is it possible that the initial use of minoxidil started a massive shed in your entire scalp? YES. Am I saying that was what happened? No one knows for sure, but it is possible based on your story.

And listen my friend. Yes grafts can take right off and resume growing post-op, and yes some of the side-effects causing the massive shedding was in fact shockloss both from the trauma of the incisions and also the injections. Trauma induced shockloss can occur post-op right up to about 6 weeks post-op. Most patients on the average do not shed their grafts until they reach a 2-4 week post-op period.

But like natural hair, grafts (transplants) will enter the resting phase and then regrow 3-4 months post-op.

Now, at 7 months post-op, you should be seeing lots of new growth emerging. Remember, that's the norm, everyone varies somewhat. The other thing that disturbed me was reading your doc removing lots of dead hair from your scalp that came out without any resistance. Either those were transplants that were once growing or they are existing hair that entered the resting phase.

Remember that hair grows at about 1/2 inch per month so if that hair being removed is transplanted, it should not be any longer than 3 1/2 inches maximum. If it is longer, then that hair is most likely exisitng hair that was not transplanted. Use your scope and see if you can tell which ones are transplanted when magnified.

We stilll do not know for absolutely 100% if transplanted hair taken from the donor will in fact be subject to the effects of DHT when placed in a recipient area rich in DHT (sebum). If so, then yes two events are potentially possible. The first is that the hair will in fact begin diffusing in a miniaturization process and second, the hair follicles can be held in the resting phase and do not enter the growth phase again for reasons unknown. Even both can be occuring as I believe may be going on with Victim. Could locked follicles then be revitalized into the anagen growth phase with laser therapy, etc? We need lots of new research.

We hear lots of things on HM and cloning. Even with successful cloning, we do not know for sure if the cloned follicles will grow again once implanted into a completely new environment. That is still another hoop to get through.

We all wish for certainties in life and the reality is there are still many unanswered questions. I still marvel at all of the strides made in this field especially over the last 10 years.

I hope this has made some sense and wish you and Victim the best...

[gillenator]

Hey guys,

Do either of you have advanced classed of hairloss in your family history on either side, maternal and paternal?

Folly, how much did you pay for your USB scope just our of curiosity?

I'll be doing another post on this issue ...

[VictimOfDHT]

You're welcome, folly. Me and you might have the same problem with our transplanted hair. It just seems to disappear all of a sudden and it's easily plucked out.

No. I didn't lose all my transplanted hair. I'd say I've lost half at least. What would happen is I'd get an HT, then get normal growth for a year or two or in one case 5 years then all of a sudden I'd have one hell of a massive shed and I'm thinner again. The same thing would happen after every HT. This time however the shed is the worst and like I said the doctor was shocked by it.

Sometimes I tell myself I'm just losing whatever native hair left -because I had a lot of it when I first started getting HTs- but after 4500 grafts I'd still expect much better thickness in the recipient area, which is not the case. So really I have no way of knowing which transplanted hairs I'm losing. Like I said I've had 4 HTs (ranging between 800-1700) grafts each over the past decade and one small one that I don't even mention sometimes. I still have a lot of hair in the recipient area but nowhere as thick as it was several months ago and my biggest fear is that I'll eventually lose it all with time as the doctors predicts.

The other thing, if transplanted hairs are lost due to DHT effects then I'd imagine they'd be lost just like the original ones -gradual miniaturization of the hair but I don't know. That's definitely not the case with me though. Those god damn hairs are just disappearing all of a sudden. The doctor says they're being rejected ! I'll let you know what my biopsy reveals, if anything at all.

Numbness is a common thing with HTs. I had numbness both in the recipient and donor sites that lasted for a while. I just don't know how you know for sure that you have nerve damage but like I said I don't think nerve damage has anything to do with the loss of the transplanted hairs.

Looks like we're dealt a double blow with our hair loss shit. First we're losing hair then we have whatever the hell that we have that's causing the transplants to die, and that's making me sick to my stomache and really pissed off.