PGD2 or DHT

[Davey Jones]

@Davey Jones: http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=8595

Personally, far fetched isn't the word i would use. It is the most complete and coherent theory i have seen to date. And things called prostate cancer, fatty liver and metabolic syndrome are all implied possible comorbidities, which lead further to impaired fat burning, impaired muscle development (and possible muscle wastage) despite DHT and other assorted possible consequences. In fact there are so many theorized comorbidities and they are all so influenced by genetics that it's impossible to validate or debunk this theory with them. At the very least, alopecia androgenetica and metabolic syndrome have been linked more or less reliably. (Just check wikipedia.)

You should also be made aware that the hormonal balance in the human organism is tightly self-regulated, so one hormone out of whack usually implies the whole balance being affected.

I've seen those theories, but the evidence seems a little shaky. Especially the metabolic syndrome one. Personally, the only individual that I know that is healthy despite balding is myself. I used to do clinical trials a bunch (college money, ya know?), so I had blood work done on a strangely regular basis. Everything was either normal or excellent (that being triglyceride levels).

Can't say I've had my hormone levels checked, but I have no trouble losing fat. A liiiiittle trouble gaining muscle very quickly, but not too much trouble gaining strength. It always looked to me, from myself and the people I work out with, that you either get to lose fat easily or gain muscle easily, and only a few lucky sons a' b*tches get both without steroids.

Of course, the study I'm referring to has n=1. I would love to see something more reliable/valid that showed bald men were either healthier or less healthy.

you can tell they are healthy by looking at them right??? well it does - increased risk of cardivascular disease, increased risk of heart disease and a list of other diseases linked with baldness i cant name right now

Where did you hear that? That is interesting if true. But hey, don't try to exaggerate it! I'll only give you one out of that bunch. Cardiovascular disease more or less is heart disease.

Basically, I don't know one way or the other, and would love to be taught something about balding that I don't know (if you guys aren't too busy). As a sidenote, my maternal grandpa is who I got my baldness from, and he was dead before he hit the ground of a heart attack years before I was even born. So there is at least n=1 I can think of who would agree with a link.

[gutted]

I've seen those theories, but the evidence seems a little shaky. Especially the metabolic syndrome one. Personally, the only individual that I know that is healthy despite balding is myself. I used to do clinical trials a bunch (college money, ya know?), so I had blood work done on a strangely regular basis. Everything was either normal or excellent (that being triglyceride levels).

Can't say I've had my hormone levels checked, but I have no trouble losing fat. A liiiiittle trouble gaining muscle very quickly, but not too much trouble gaining strength. It always looked to me, from myself and the people I work out with, that you either get to lose fat easily or gain muscle easily, and only a few lucky sons a' b*tches get both without steroids.

Of course, the study I'm referring to has n=1. I would love to see something more reliable/valid that showed bald men were either healthier or less healthy.



Where did you hear that? That is interesting if true. But hey, don't try to exaggerate it! I'll only give you one out of that bunch. Cardiovascular disease more or less is heart disease.

Basically, I don't know one way or the other, and would love to be taught something about balding that I don't know (if you guys aren't too busy). As a sidenote, my maternal grandpa is who I got my baldness from, and he was dead before he hit the ground of a heart attack years before I was even born. So there is at least n=1 I can think of who would agree with a link.

yes i know.

Put it this way, diet has a major influence on baldness, despite what you may want to believe. Cholesterol, does not get much attention in baldness but maintaining healthy cholesterol would help you drastically.

It is not genetics.
There is a genetical component - and that is the pattern
I used to believe it WAS genetics and hairs are predetermined to minutauarise until i did a bit more research and a personal experience i had.

[bigentries]

There are a couple of reviews in Pubmed that claim that the studies that found a correlation between baldness and heart problems are poorly done and don't predict cardiac issue as well as other well researched causes

Baldness is just a cosmetic issue, get over it

[25 going on 65]

Lifestyle balding isn't real. I have known plenty of healthy balding/bald men who are very meticulous about what goes in their bodies. I have also seen the worst junk food addicts alive with full heads of hair (some of them were also alcoholics or had drug problems).
All of you have seen the exact same.
It's in your genes guys, like most of your physical traits.

P.S.- My shedding reduced drastically when I switched to a junk food diet. You all should try it.

[gutted]

Lifestyle balding isn't real. I have known plenty of healthy balding/bald men who are very meticulous about what goes in their bodies. I have also seen the worst junk food addicts alive with full heads of hair (some of them were also alcoholics or had drug problems).
All of you have seen the exact same.
It's in your genes guys, like most of your physical traits.

P.S.- My shedding reduced drastically when I switched to a junk food diet. You all should try it.

lol

like i said, theres a gentical component, and that is the pattern.

I can induce partial thhinning/baldness in a person that is "genetically" determined to have a full head of hair through supplementation.

[Aston]

Just think of it this way. A big component of male pattern baldness is excess DHT. Men with male pattern baldness have reportedly low Testosterone. Doesn't it sound like an hormonal imbalance? But does DHT go up randomly and T decrease coincidentally at the same time, in balding men? Are all balding men genetically predisposed to have high DHT, a critical hormone which overproduction is linked to prostate hyperplasia?

Well then, i'll have you know that prostate hyperplasia, linked to pattern balding, is linked to diet.
Plus there is an ongoing battle between nutritionists about the meaning of "healthy" diet, so there is much uncertainty about what to define a healthy diet, with perfectly opposite opinions. In fact, i side with the current which says the traditional USDA recommendations are completely wrong, which in my eyes makes most of those "healthy" individuals everything but healthy and subject to chronic inflammation.

[25 going on 65]

gutted: if the pattern is genetically predetermined, this would be due to the greater or lesser sensitivity of individual follicles to DHT. (MPB sufferers don't lose the horse shoe because those follicles aren't vulnerable to the hormone.) Follicular sensitivity to DHT leads to male-pattern hair loss, and it is genetic.
We can induce hair loss in men who are genetically programmed not to lose their hair, with something as simple as an antidepressant. But it's not male-pattern hair loss.

Aston, plenty of health nuts completely disregard the government's recommended daily diet. Visit any forum made for the nutrition-obsessed. And besides that, what's with all the 300-pound lifelong hamburger fiends who never lose a hair?
Something else to think about, not all balding men have excess DHT or low testosterone (likewise not all NW1's and 2's have low DHT or high testosterone). When you suffer MPB, the problem is that some (most) of your scalp follicles are vulnerable to miniaturization from DHT, regardless of your actual levels. That's why even men with extremely low DHT levels can progressively bald.

[gutted]

gutted: if the pattern is genetically predetermined, this would be due to the greater or lesser sensitivity of individual follicles to DHT. (MPB sufferers don't lose the horse shoe because those follicles aren't vulnerable to the hormone.) Follicular sensitivity to DHT leads to male-pattern hair loss, and it is genetic.
We can induce hair loss in men who are genetically programmed not to lose their hair, with something as simple as an antidepressant. But it's not male-pattern hair loss.

Aston, plenty of health nuts completely disregard the government's recommended daily diet. Visit any forum made for the nutrition-obsessed. And besides that, what's with all the 300-pound lifelong hamburger fiends who never lose a hair?
Something else to think about, not all balding men have excess DHT or low testosterone (likewise not all NW1's and 2's have low DHT or high testosterone). When you suffer MPB, the problem is that some (most) of your scalp follicles are vulnerable to miniaturization from DHT, regardless of your actual levels. That's why even men with extremely low DHT levels can progressively bald.

this is what the brainwashed people believe...

i think you need to do your own personal research rather than rely on the argument of "plenty of people eating hamburgers... dont go bald"

there are explainable, albeit unproven. reasons as to why they dont go bald.
Genetic, pattern distribution of the seb glands, being one of them.
Metabolism being another

How do you know they dont experince miniturasation, minutraisation is not detectable through your eyesight?

anyway, with diet im beginning to believe cholesterol is a major player in baldness.

[gutted]

Just think of it this way. A big component of male pattern baldness is excess DHT. Men with male pattern baldness have reportedly low Testosterone. Doesn't it sound like an hormonal imbalance? But does DHT go up randomly and T decrease coincidentally at the same time, in balding men? Are all balding men genetically predisposed to have high DHT, a critical hormone which overproduction is linked to prostate hyperplasia?

in balding people, 5 alpha reductase enzymic actiity is high, what needs to be figured out is, why.

this is probably the root reason why androgen and homrone levels are off balance.

[25 going on 65]

this is what the brainwashed people believe...

i think you need to do your own personal research rather than rely on the argument of "plenty of people eating hamburgers... dont go bald"

there are explainable, albeit unproven. reasons as to why they dont go bald.
Genetic, pattern distribution of the seb glands, being one of them.
Metabolism being another

How do you know they dont experince miniturasation, minutraisation is not detectable through your eyesight?

anyway, with diet im beginning to believe cholesterol is a major player in baldness.

I'm not relying on all the non-balding junk food enthusiasts to make my judgments. They are just real-world examples of what scientific study has already discovered about MPB.
If those hamburger fiends are experiencing miniaturization from MPB, then their baldness will progress with time. Except it doesn't. I have personally known adults like this for years or decades (you probably have as well), and they aren't balding.

I'm not trying to be argumentative for no reason. It's just that the lifestyle balding theory is literally centuries old if not older--it's a wive's tale. You can look at these same theories that people were posting about online 8 or more years ago, with posters talking about how they would try some new non-standard treatment and "report back if it works." No one has regrown any hair on these methods, except those who were already on DHT reduction drugs or minoxidil.

I wish you guys were right, believe me. Everyone on this forum wants nothing more than to effectively treat their hair loss. But how many times do we need to resurrect the same dead theories before we can put them to rest? How many times will we watch a new generation of young balding dudes try to embrace these "alternative approaches," only to inevitably free fall into NW6 territory? (Or finally just get a finasteride rx.)
That being said, if either of you manages to regrow hair and can show us here on BTT, please do.

[gutted]

I'm not relying on all the non-balding junk food enthusiasts to make my judgments. They are just real-world examples of what scientific study has already discovered about MPB.
If those hamburger fiends are experiencing miniaturization from MPB, then their baldness will progress with time. Except it doesn't. I have personally known adults like this for years or decades (you probably have as well), and they aren't balding.

I'm not trying to be argumentative for no reason. It's just that the lifestyle balding theory is literally centuries old if not older--it's a wive's tale. You can look at these same theories that people were posting about online 8 or more years ago, with posters talking about how they would try some new non-standard treatment and "report back if it works." No one has regrown any hair on these methods, except those who were already on DHT reduction drugs or minoxidil.

I wish you guys were right, believe me. Everyone on this forum wants nothing more than to effectively treat their hair loss. But how many times do we need to resurrect the same dead theories before we can put them to rest? How many times will we watch a new generation of young balding dudes try to embrace these "alternative approaches," only to inevitably free fall into NW6 territory? (Or finally just get a finasteride rx.)
That being said, if either of you manages to regrow hair and can show us here on BTT, please do.

what were you expecting them to report back? that they regrew a full head of hair?

diet is a way to control/stop hair mintuarisation, it wont regrow hair that has minuturised. even then modern day diet is probably not consistent enough to address the problem head on.

homeostatic cholesterol levels is probably key.

[25 going on 65]

what were you expecting them to report back? that they regrew a full head of hair?

Well it would've been reassuring to at least see someone who could halt their balding for longer than a year (without using proven treatments). Some guys have done it for 10+ years on fin.

But I guess I'll agree to disagree on this subject. Nothing is impossible, but these theories have been around for quite some time and for me, there just isn't enough evidence at this point (and too much contrary evidence). I wish luck to anyone who experiments with alternative treatments, and hope they will let us know how it goes.

[Aston]

in balding people, 5 alpha reductase enzymic actiity is high, what needs to be figured out is, why.

this is probably the root reason why androgen and homrone levels are off balance.

DHT competes for the androgen receptors with progesterone. Also, cortisol downregulates the activity of 5a reductase. Progesterone and cortisol belong to the same production line. It's all said in that thread i made. A diet with frequent insulinic spikes and high carb consumption (ANY USDA-recommended diet, aka the "healthy" diet) causes the body to slow down its metabolism to compensate, which causes a reduction in overall metabolic hormone levels, which upregulates DHT. The body then tends to fight excess serum DHT with estrogens, but tissues like the hair follicles and the prostate can make their own DHT(supposedly), which would explain the link. Also, metabolism naturally slows down in aging men (until you get the hormonal crash known as andropause). Furthermore, a BMI that's anything more than "perfectly lean" sharply upregulates TNFa, which a recent research links to PGD2 action.

some supporting research:

http://www.jle.com/en/revues/medecine/ejd/e-docs/00/01/89/4F/article.phtml

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/57/3/671.abstract

http://jme.endocrinology-journals.org/content/41/3/165.full

[2020]

if I eat like this guy would I be able to keep my hair?

[gutted]

if I eat like this guy would I be able to keep my hair?

probably not due to your family hostory of baldness, you have an excess number of sebaceous glands in your scalp skin.

he also probably has inestinal bacteria that can produce eqoul.