Updated Research and Knowledge - Cutting Edge

[bej]

I was reading through this thread, sifting through the ideas...

There was discussion of using gamma linolenic acid and also linoleic acid (both omega-6) topically to help hair. I guess the premise is that they are precursors to eventually be turned into, among other things, PGE2.

I was looking at the pathway diagrams, and arachidonic acid is like 3 or 4 steps closer to PGE2 than those other fatty acids. Wouldn't arachidonic be superior to GLA and LA? Arachidonic acid should be easy to obtain, there are supplements for it.

[tiktok]

There was discussion of using gamma linolenic acid and also linoleic acid (both omega-6) topically to help hair. I guess the premise is that they are precursors to eventually be turned into, among other things, PGE2.

I was looking at the pathway diagrams, and arachidonic acid is like 3 or 4 steps closer to PGE2 than those other fatty acids. Wouldn't arachidonic be superior to GLA and LA? Arachidonic acid should be easy to obtain, there are supplements for it.

Might be on to something there http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26848219 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4737836/. Can buy here: http://www.bulknutrients.com.au/prod...c-acid-40.html

[bej]

Might be on to something there http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26848219 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4737836/. Can buy here: http://www.bulknutrients.com.au/prod...c-acid-40.html

The GLA and LA may have other functions, like inhibiting 5AR, but those activities are probably weak, and trumped by including something like RU in the regimen.

One caveat to all of these oils is whether they will dissolve in a vehicle. In my own experiments at home, I haven't found any oils that mix into a vehicle. One possible exception to that is Castor oil, which I read is miscible with ethanol. I don't have the patience to put several different things on my head every day.

[bej]

oils

deleted double post

[bej]

Has anyone actually obtained some 20% oleuropein / olive leaf extract and tried dissolving it in a vehicle? It could be one of those things that just floats around in chunks, never dissolving. The oleuropein paper looked pretty good though. Too bad it wasn't a human study, but the mouse data, plus the human DP cell culture data showed a lot of good gene expression going in the desired direction.

[InBeforeTheCure]

Has anyone actually obtained some 20% oleuropein / olive leaf extract and tried dissolving it in a vehicle? It could be one of those things that just floats around in chunks, never dissolving. The oleuropein paper looked pretty good though. Too bad it wasn't a human study, but the mouse data, plus the human DP cell culture data showed a lot of good gene expression going in the desired direction.

In a 50% ethanol/30% polysorbate 80/20% dimethyl isosorbide vehicle, it dissolves easily at .75%, the concentration he was using. It won't dissolve at 5% say in that vehicle, but if you first mix it around in a bit of DMSO and then add the other stuff, it works.

[FeelsBad]

Has anyone actually obtained some 20% oleuropein / olive leaf extract and tried dissolving it in a vehicle? It could be one of those things that just floats around in chunks, never dissolving. The oleuropein paper looked pretty good though. Too bad it wasn't a human study, but the mouse data, plus the human DP cell culture data showed a lot of good gene expression going in the desired direction.

I bought some olive leaf extract that was already extracted in a water/glycerin base. It mixes easily with ethanol. Not sure if this is more or less effective though

[Sogeking]

I got mine in 70% Eth / 20 % PG and it dissolved well enough. Same goes for apple olyphenols, ECGC and rosemary...

[potato1987]

Chemical where are you mate?

[ryan82]

Somebody already results or it that too early to ask?

[lucky1987]

got the olive, egcg, gla and rosemary today.
only need to order the alcohol, but the ones being linked to are out.
i wonder if this will be good as wel:

http://www.drank.nl/winkel/pure-alcohol/

its 96% pure alcohol, if i understand it correctly this should work, if anyone can verify this.

also i want to make progression pictures, but i am a diffuse thinner, tried to take pictures, but you just dont see it on in the pictures.
if anyone has some advice on this.

[Sogeking]

got the olive, egcg, gla and rosemary today.
only need to order the alcohol, but the ones being linked to are out.
i wonder if this will be good as wel:

http://www.drank.nl/winkel/pure-alcohol/

its 96% pure alcohol, if i understand it correctly this should work, if anyone can verify this.

also i want to make progression pictures, but i am a diffuse thinner, tried to take pictures, but you just dont see it on in the pictures.
if anyone has some advice on this.

That alcohol should be good enough. I actually use a mixture of 70% Eth and water mixed with PG as vehicle itself.
I too took pictures with my shitty smartphone 2 weeks ago. However those pictures will be only good enough if there are cosmetic improvements. So far I only have some velus hair on left temple that was bare. I am waiting to see if those hair go terminal or will they stay that way. Can't say for the rest of the scalp because I'm a diffuse thinner and so far only the left temple is totally bare and easily discernible with the naked eye.
Then again it could be placebo. Gonna have to wait for 3 month mark.

There were plenty of different treatments where people reported velus hair, however with the exception of minox and propecia none of them turned velus to terminal hair.

[ryan82]

That alcohol should be good enough. I actually use a mixture of 70% Eth and water mixed with PG as vehicle itself.
I too took pictures with my shitty smartphone 2 weeks ago. However those pictures will be only good enough if there are cosmetic improvements. So far I only have some velus hair on left temple that was bare. I am waiting to see if those hair go terminal or will they stay that way. Can't say for the rest of the scalp because I'm a diffuse thinner and so far only the left temple is totally bare and easily discernible with the naked eye.
Then again it could be placebo. Gonna have to wait for 3 month mark.

There were plenty of different treatments where people reported velus hair, however with the exception of minox and propecia none of them turned velus to terminal hair.

if you never had velus hair there, then this is a improvement ?

[lucky1987]

Thanks for the answer Sogeking!
Bought it, and mixed it together, 80% ethanol 20% pg.
used it as follow in a 60 ml mixture:
ol 1 mg/ml (bit more then a third of a capsule)
egcg 5 mg/ml (2 caps)
Rosemary 3 mg/ml (little over a third, i got 500 mg capsules)
GLA 5 mg/ml (just emptied 1 cap in the mixture)

Got a little residue left over, but only a very small amount, when i left it it sank to the bottom and used a syringe to put it into the bottle ( this made sure i did not get the pieces).
i also use finasteride, stemoxydine and 2 ml caster orally, hoping this all together will make the difference

[bej]

In the pubmed abstracts I looked up on EGCG, it inhibits both PGD2 and PGE2. I'm not sure why people would speculate that that is going to come out as a net-positive. Are there any hair growth studies of topically applied EGCG that I missed? Those kind of results trump speculation. But if I had to just speculate, EGCG doesn't look like it would be helpful.