OC info+ use RU at your own risk

[Gerhard]

I don't mean to be a downer, but King of Chimps has also claimed many other things have completely stopped his hair loss over the years, including Eucapil and plain alcohol. I'm not sure he's he most reliable source, honestly.

Well fuark. Guess I'm sticking with the bs that is propecia and tagging on some OC on the side.

[sdsurfin]

I don't mean to be a downer, but King of Chimps has also claimed many other things have completely stopped his hair loss over the years, including Eucapil and plain alcohol. I'm not sure he's he most reliable source, honestly.

Hmm that discouraging. Still worth a try I think, although I think the concentrations have to be much higher. I think the ideal is to get setipiprant at like a 250 mg oral dose daily.

[Gerhard]

Hmm that discouraging. Still worth a try I think, although I think the concentrations have to be much higher. I think the ideal is to get setipiprant at like a 250 mg oral dose daily.

Definitely a low blow I didn't see coming. However some in that thread experienced great results from adding OC as well so I'm hesitant to think it's total bullhockey.

[unbalding]

Is entirely blocking PGD2 as TM30089 does healthy and capable of long term usage? I'd think that a total suppression could lead to negative side effects. I figured the usage of OC or setipriprant's ultimate goal was to lower these PGD2 levels in bald and balding men back down to normal scalp levels.

That's a great point. I wouldn't want to use it long term, but for initial regrowth it should be superior to OC. Once you've made some gains you can drop down to OC, and should be able to maintain.

[sdsurfin]

Definitely a low blow I didn't see coming. However some in that thread experienced great results from adding OC as well so I'm hesitant to think it's total bullhockey.

No i dont think its bull at all. the science is there, and cetirizine, which is much less selective, definitely at least gets rid of the inflammation on my head.

I do think that you probably need a greater dose than 1% a day. The asthma studies use like 400mg a day, so you dprob need to get that amount into your scalp. I really think its best to press these guys on the oral setipiprant too, because we know the doses for asthma, it has sceintific backing from cotsarellis, and it really cant hurt to try if we can get a fair price. if a thousand guys email this dude guaranteed he starts making it.

[unbalding]

I think honestly the best option is to follow researchers' lead and use what they think works, which is setipiprant. Otherwise OC seems to be a good candidate, as we know it can be made, sold, and used topically with success, though anecdotal. I do not need photo proof to buy it at a reasonable price. The science is there, the reports of it working are enough, and I have had enough of a change in shedding and itch with zyrtec alone that Im pretty positive this will work. If it doesn't then I simply won't buy any more. The health risks are basically nil. I don't know anything about TM, or if it targets the exact receptor that cots has implicated and linked to treatment with setipiprant.

People are overlooking the obvious reason that Kythera went with setipiprant. It was the most available option, that is, they were able to buy the rights to it. I think they would have preferred OC or TM if they could have acquired the rights to either one.

TM does target the same CRTH2 receptor as setipiprant and OC, only it is more selective and more effective. It completely blocks PGD2 from the receptor without affecting other receptors. The only concern, as Gerhard pointed out, is that we don't know the effects of completely blocking PGD2. Although being more selective should make it safer to the extent that OC and setipiprant target other receptors. Other than that, TM is soluble in water. High concentrations of OC are only soluble in DMSO. TM only needs to be applied once a day at the most, and perhaps less.

[Swooping]

Setipiprant had previously been studied as a potential allergic inflammation treatment and had undergone eight clinical trials, including a Phase III study in seasonal allergic rhinitis patients and a Phase II proof of concept study in asthma patients, resulting in a safety database of more than 1,000 patients. Actelion suspended the development of setipiprant due to a lack of efficacy seen in the above-mentioned clinical trials for inflammatory disorders.

That's hilarious. I didn't even know that it was licensed out. Good move by Actelion, they obviously wanted to get rid of it after the fails. Also, If it would have a significant impact on hair they would have noticed that in the clinical trials (8 of them were run in 1000+ patients) and would never have licensed this treatment out imo. After all the safety was pretty much established. Kythera is drunk I guess. I'll eat my shoe if this will be proven to be more effective than finasteride. But we'll see.

[KO1]

TM is definitely interesting

[sdsurfin]

Swooping you suck. If kythera purchased it they def had reason to do so. Acre lion did not rest anyone's hair, and these are not meant to cause huge re growth, but to maintain what you have. Not many people, half if them women would even think about tying their asthma trial drug to the state if their hair. Plus actelion never said that they didn't notice anything hair related. Cotsarellis and kythera have been working to find a drug that works for years now, they are not idiots. Why would they invest money into something they would not think would work? They have proven in vitro that setipip rant allows hair to keep growing. That's enough for me. I do to need something better than fin. I new something that is as good and doesn't kill my nuts. Many people feel the same . Stop hating, we need to try this at least and the only way to get the price down is to have support.

I agree about setipip rant being the mos available to kythera, but they also said they tried many possibilities and this one worked.

[sdsurfin]

Also TM setipip and OC are all very similar. Whichever one we can get at a normal price will be good to test.

[KO1]

See, thing is Kythera didn't actually purchase it. They are licensing it, where they develop it as a treatment, but Actelion gets royalties from it. No cost to Actelion.

[Swooping]

See, thing is Kythera didn't actually purchase it. They are licensing it, where they develop it as a treatment, but Actelion gets royalties from it. No cost to Actelion.

Ahh explains it, thanks.

[Justinian]

That's hilarious. I didn't even know that it was licensed out. Good move by Actelion, they obviously wanted to get rid of it after the fails. Also, If it would have a significant impact on hair they would have noticed that in the clinical trials (8 of them were run in 1000+ patients) and would never have licensed this treatment out imo. After all the safety was pretty much established. Kythera is drunk I guess. I'll eat my shoe if this will be proven to be more effective than finasteride. But we'll see.

Swooping, I know you're knowledgable but you're being pretty negative here.
The trials were all pretty short, the longest was 3 months I think. Here's one: https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/s...piprant&rank=1
That's definitely not long enough to notice maintenance, and probably not long enough to notice regrowth either since it takes around 3-4 months for new hairs to grow to a reasonable amount.

[Swooping]

Swooping, I know you're knowledgable but you're being pretty negative here.
The trials were all pretty short, the longest was 3 months I think. Here's one: https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/s...piprant&rank=1
That's definitely not long enough to notice maintenance, and probably not long enough to notice regrowth either since it takes around 3-4 months for new hairs to grow to a reasonable amount.

It's not only that. In my opinion the whole PGD2 angle is overrated. Literally nobody even followed up Cotsarelis his work or came with the same findings or even directs his focus to the PGD2 angle in androgenetic alopecia. Many other researchers and groups are literally paving in a whole different direction and don't even mention the whole PGD2 angle. That's just extremely odd to me.

Also what is just extremely hard argumentation is that these molecules are more selective but we have had many medicines on the market manipulating prostaglandines and still have. What about all the even (deadly) cox-2 inhibitors that have been on the market? PGD2 is mediated from this enzyme. What about the other more selective medicines? Why would setipiprant be different? How high would the chance be, that there still isn't any real evidence of them being effective?

Also the in vitro explant hair follicle model is odd. The hair follicle did elongate even when PGD2 was administered albeit less than without PGD2 just check the presentation. It's not that this is special at all or acts as a valid argument. You can stop elongation with many things like for instance tgf-b in vitro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN5H01HGaVI&feature=youtu.be&t=19m41s

Anyways we'll see.

[KO1]

I think there is merit to the Pgd2 angle, as Garza wrote a paper that PGD2 inhibited WIHN, hitch leads me to believe it is one of the things that is inhibiting regrowth potential. But, again unclear if fin already covers this.