8th World Congress For Hair Research - Korea (2014)

[ytterligare]

You'd rather apply an expensive topical every day than getting cells injected one time and have a full head of hair for many years or maybe the rest of your life?

[hellouser]

You'd rather apply an expensive topical every day than getting cells injected one time and have a full head of hair for many years or maybe the rest of your life?

I'd do both.

[Desmond84]

Hey Hell Sorry I was so excited I forgot to post the link. Here's the link to titles of all abstracts:

http://www.hair2014.org/contents.asp?midx=8&sidx=75&openpage=8&menuov=Accepted%20Abstract

Cheers

[Dan26]

lol Nigam is on there watch the whole event get shut down by the feds :P

[sdsurfin]

premature celebration?

Although I truly dig the positivity that posters like desmond have, I think that there's a strong case to be made for not getting overly optimistic about all this stem cell stuff.

I think it will definitely end up curing hair loss, but I doubt it will be anytime soon enough for it to matter for anyone over 25. Just because they are able to recover some of the inductive capabilities of dermal papillae does not mean that they can grow a follicle that will thrive on your scalp, or even a follicle that is similar to the ones you lost. they are now able to make crappy hairs by combining these cells, but interaction of the genes/ factors/proteins that work together to make a fully cycling, anatomically correct hair are so much more complicated than just implanting some DP cells. They still have no idea whatsoever what makes bald scalp different than non bald scalp.

Even once they master growing new follicles, getting them to grow in a cosmetically appealing manner is another ten years of work probably. I'd say we're looking at twenty more years before they can really put baldness to rest with stem cell technology. They are frustratingly close, but I don't think we're even close to starting trials. When Jahoda and tsuji cite the "near future", i think they are thinking more along the lines of 10 years to start trials than say next year.

The abstracts from the hair expo are great titles, but if you do research into any of them, you'll see that the actual experiments are very far from solving the issues that they delineate in the titles. The main problem, as Tsuji has stated, is figuring out the connections between a new follicle and the recipient environment. I suspect that balding has more to do with the genetics of the surrounding skin than just the stem cells of the follicle itself. I also suspect that they will have to build more than just a cell grouping, but instead a whole, follicular unit type of micro-environment if the hair is to grow. Also, how will they control hair cycling? If anyone has a counterargument or knowledge as to why a cure might come sooner, please respond, cause I'd like to be more optimistic. I very much doubt that a chemical treatment or cure will be any good, propecia is poison and it doesn't look like CB or histogen or any of those things actually work very well.

[Tenma]

.

[hellouser]

Hey Hell Sorry I was so excited I forgot to post the link. Here's the link to titles of all abstracts:

http://www.hair2014.org/contents.asp?midx=8&sidx=75&openpage=8&menuov=Accepted%20Abstract

Cheers

Thanks Desmond!

[Tenma]

Just because they are able to recover some of the inductive capabilities of dermal papillae does not mean that they can grow a follicle that will thrive on your scalp, or even a follicle that is similar to the ones you lost. they are now able to make crappy hairs by combining these cells, but interaction of the genes/ factors/proteins that work together to make a fully cycling, anatomically correct hair are so much more complicated than just implanting some DP cells. They still have no idea whatsoever what makes bald scalp different than non bald scalp.

Interesting. Still i think you are underestimating the chinese findings.

At least according to this 2005 study (Reorganization of hair follicles in human skin organ culture induced by cultured human follicle-derived cells):

The small size of the reorganized HF found in our study can be explained by restricted proliferation of injected DP cell and therefore a small and irregular volume of the developed DP, which has been demonstrated to directly influence HF size and hair shaft diameter (27).

Chinese claim to overcome this major hurdle:

our method can enhance and restores DP cells unique characteristics in vitro.

We examined expression of several genes and protein and protein associated with hair inductivity of DP cells , such as NCAM, Versican and α NCAM, Versican and α-SMA, and confirmed that their was elevated in the spheres compared dissociated DP cells

So, they appear to have solved the big issue of HF size and hair shaft diameter

They still have no idea whatsoever what makes bald scalp different than non bald scalp.

I remember Washenik pointing out the problem. It seems a huge roadblock.

I very much doubt that a chemical treatment or cure will be any good, propecia is poison and it doesn't look like CB or histogen or any of those things actually work very well.

[/QUOTE]

Propecia poison??? That "poison" saved my hair (been on it since 2003).

Also, you really should read this 2 things:

http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/research/10-year-finasteride-study-first-to-investigate-long-term-effects-and-safety/

http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/news/press/pr2010/2010-10-06.aspx

[Tenma]

Even once they master growing new follicles, getting them to grow in a cosmetically appealing manner is another ten years of work probably. I'd say we're looking at twenty more years before they can really put baldness to rest with stem cell technology. They are frustratingly close, but I don't think we're even close to starting trials. When Jahoda and tsuji cite the "near future", i think they are thinking more along the lines of 10 years to start trials than say next year.

I'm wondering how can you make such an estimate... it is nice to put years here and there but you should back them up with factual data.

[sdsurfin]

response

I'm wondering how can you make such an estimate... it is nice to put years here and there but you should back them up with factual data.

I'm definitely making an educated guess, but it is a guess. Basically trials have proven to take about ten years, and I'd say we have about ten more years before we really understand the human scalp and why it acts the way it does.

That's great that propecia saved your hair, but judging by what it did to my body in the months that i took it, i can't really call it anything other than posion. It blocks the action of an enzyme that's necessary in most of your body, as well as an androgen that we still dont totally understand the role of. and that alone makes me view people who think they are not going to get damaged by it with skepticism. If it works for you then maybe it's worth it, but for me it hurt my brain and my testicles, and who knows what else that i wasn't feeling.

The chinese team as well as jahoda's team have made great steps towards rehabilitating DP cells, I know. However, nowhere do they say that they "solved" issues like hair size and color and cycling etc. they simply say that a number of genes were expressed to a greater extent. Even if they are making perfect follicles, the question then becomes: why should these follicles thrive on a balding scalp? When someone goes bald, the fat layers decrease, sebaceous glands shrink etc etc- a whole host of reactions and chemical links that are native to that part of the scalp and not the DP cells. I could be totally wrong, I'm not a hair scientist, but I've read a lot about this and I'm not so sure that just inducing hair = a cure. I think a cure could possible come in the form of donor regeneration (could wesley add DP spheroids to clipped donor follicles?), but until we know why some scalp goes bald, I doubt any attempts to inject stem cell groupings will work. thats just my hunch.

Oh and PS, Nigam is speaking twice at that congress, so either the congress is kind of lax, or the guy is being taken seriously by someone. My guess is that he's actually well versed in hair science and means well, but India is just such a messed up place that he resorted to using made up stuff to jump start his business.

[sdsurfin]

also

This DP culturing and micro-organ creation is only really a cure if the secret to non bald scalp is non balding DP cells. My guess is that the entire scalp environment is different, as well as the signals between the body as a whole and the balding scalp. Transplants bypass this issue by moving the implanted follicle in a substantial chunk of donor skin. I would love to know how exactly DHT begins and mediates the process, and if our androgen receptors exist only on the DP cells or on all different kinds of cells in the balding scalps. If the androgen receptors are only on the DP cells, then maybe this is indeed a cure that will work soon. The frustrating thing about this forum is that there doesn't seem to be anyone on here that actually knows much about this kind of science beyond the basics.

Then again, if the newly formed follicles are not DHT resistant, they may still function for a number of years, which means a re-up on your treatment. I'm incredibly curious to know how the taiwanese study will go, someone on this forum that is in that part of the country needs to work on a connection there, it's gonna suck to have to wait til 2016 or whenever that study is over.

[hellouser]

Oh and PS, Nigam is speaking twice at that congress, so either the congress is kind of lax, or the guy is being taken seriously by someone. My guess is that he's actually well versed in hair science and means well, but India is just such a messed up place that he resorted to using made up stuff to jump start his business.

WHAT THE F--K!?

I just looked at the abstract and 'Vivek Nigam' IS presenting at the congress;

* P156 (FC3)
APPLICATION OF TISSUE ENGINEERING IN HAIR TRANSPLANT TO REDUCE AND/OR ELIMINATE POST FOLLICULAR UNIT HAIR TRANSPLANT MICRO SCARING OR WHITE DOTS AT DONOR SCALP.
Vivek Nigam

&

P157
A CASE STUDY OF HAIR DOUBLING, GROWING 2 HAIR FOLLICLES FROM 1 BY TRANSVERSE BISECTION AT DERMAL CUP SHEATH, SUPPORTED WITH EPITHELIAL STEM CELLS & FRESH DERMAL PAPILLA CELLS
Vivek Nigam

[Tenma]

WHAT THE F--K!?

I just looked at the abstract and 'Vivek Nigam' IS presenting at the congress;



&

incredible...

This Nigam guy is a clown

[Tenma]

That's great that propecia saved your hair, but judging by what it did to my body in the months that i took it, i can't really call it anything other than posion. It blocks the action of an enzyme that's necessary in most of your body, as well as an androgen that we still dont totally understand the role of. and that alone makes me view people who think they are not going to get damaged by it with skepticism. If it works for you then maybe it's worth it, but for me it hurt my brain and my testicles, and who knows what else that i wasn't feeling.

Im sorry to hear that man, but good stuff are coming. CB with the right vehicle will be beneficial for u if you are at the low norwood corner. It is expected to be side effects free

Even if they are making perfect follicles, the question then becomes: why should these follicles thrive on a balding scalp? When someone goes bald, the fat layers decrease, sebaceous glands shrink etc etc- a whole host of reactions and chemical links that are native to that part of the scalp and not the DP cells.

Well, transplanted hair stay for decades at least. Properly cultured DP cells injected the right way (this is what we must figure out next) from donor could do the work.

Oh and PS, Nigam is speaking twice at that congress, so either the congress is kind of lax, or the guy is being taken seriously by someone. My guess is that he's actually well versed in hair science and means well, but India is just such a messed up place that he resorted to using made up stuff to jump start his business.

i feel you dude, Nigam is the worst of the worst.

[nameless]

Although I truly dig the positivity that posters like desmond have, I think that there's a strong case to be made for not getting overly optimistic about all this stem cell stuff.

I think it will definitely end up curing hair loss, but I doubt it will be anytime soon enough for it to matter for anyone over 25. Just because they are able to recover some of the inductive capabilities of dermal papillae does not mean that they can grow a follicle that will thrive on your scalp, or even a follicle that is similar to the ones you lost. they are now able to make crappy hairs by combining these cells, but interaction of the genes/ factors/proteins that work together to make a fully cycling, anatomically correct hair are so much more complicated than just implanting some DP cells. They still have no idea whatsoever what makes bald scalp different than non bald scalp.

Even once they master growing new follicles, getting them to grow in a cosmetically appealing manner is another ten years of work probably. I'd say we're looking at twenty more years before they can really put baldness to rest with stem cell technology. They are frustratingly close, but I don't think we're even close to starting trials. When Jahoda and tsuji cite the "near future", i think they are thinking more along the lines of 10 years to start trials than say next year.

The abstracts from the hair expo are great titles, but if you do research into any of them, you'll see that the actual experiments are very far from solving the issues that they delineate in the titles. The main problem, as Tsuji has stated, is figuring out the connections between a new follicle and the recipient environment. I suspect that balding has more to do with the genetics of the surrounding skin than just the stem cells of the follicle itself. I also suspect that they will have to build more than just a cell grouping, but instead a whole, follicular unit type of micro-environment if the hair is to grow. Also, how will they control hair cycling? If anyone has a counterargument or knowledge as to why a cure might come sooner, please respond, cause I'd like to be more optimistic. I very much doubt that a chemical treatment or cure will be any good, propecia is poison and it doesn't look like CB or histogen or any of those things actually work very well.

I agree with you that we should not get too optimistic, but for a different reason.

I looked at some of the 2014 Hair Loss Congress study abstracts and it looks to me like the researchers are saying that they have found ways to protect some of the trichogenicity of dp cells in culture. They are not saying they have found ways to protect ALL of the trichogenicity. I think they will need to protect all, or almost all, of the cellular trichogenicity in order to solve the problem.