whats the problem with Gho??

[didi]

In fact, since it seems HASCI has difficulties doing 3 hair grafts, the ratio is even different. With normal FUE, the average will be 2 hairs/graft if 1's 2's and 3's are evenly distributed. With HASCI it will be close to 1.5. Which means that 2000 FUE grafts would lose 4000 hairs and 2000 HST grafts 3000 in donor. If you take that also into consideration, then at 80% regrowth, 2000 FUE grafts should yield the same donor loss as about 9 HST's !! But instead HASCI advices clients to stop after 3 HST's. Something isn't right here IM, and you know it too.

good point,
what arash is saying is 2000 fue will damage donor much more than 2000 hst grafts would, simply bc hst does not extracts 3s..

that means at 80% regeneration, donor area after 10 000 hst grafts should look like 1 500 FUE grafts minus white dots.....In another words everyone should be able to get 10 000 grafts .

[Pentarou]

other than $$...?

Not enough evidence that the hair stem cell transplant procedure works as advertised, basically.

[Arashi]

To clarify:

1x 2000 FUE, average 2 hairs/graft (if 1's 2's and 3's are evenly distributed), so you'll lose 4000 hairs in donor.
9x1600 HST= 14.400 graftsx 1.5 hair per graft = 21.600 of which you'll lose 20% in donor, so you'll lose 4320 hairs in donor.

So only 320 hairs more lost in donor, BUT I'm assuming an average of 2 hairs/graft for FUE, while I think that the average with a FUE is even slighly higher. So it's save to assume that at 80% regrowth, 1 FUE of 2000 hairs, should equal 9 times a 1600 HST. But instead HASCI advices clients to stop after 3 HST's. Something isn't right here ...

[gc83uk]

Would anyone actually need 14,400 grafts? I think 12,000 even for an NW7 would be enough.

I sent Hasci an email earlier today, not had a reply yet, but I'm expecting a reply tomorrow, otherwise I'll be re-sending it. I decided to take a different angle on this 3 HST question, at least to start with....

I've basically asked her how many more grafts that I can have extracted? She has my donor photos, so she should be able to give me an approximate figure.

If she says I can only have another 3000 grafts (6000 total) then I will be asking why!

20% of 6000 grafts is only 1200 graft loss, which shouldn't be that big a deal with most donors, HOWEVER my donor was shit to start with, so probably not the best example to be using. I personally believe I should be able to get to around 2000 graft loss before I get to the point of being unable to shave my head without noticing gaps too seriously. I don't mind a few hairless gaps here and there!

Worst case scenario, come this September, I'll make sure to photograph every ****ing FU in my donor area 2 or 3 nights before the procedure... I'll upload the photos for TBT users to analyse BEFORE I do my procedure...

Because I'm having the procedure over 2 days again, it should be relatively easier to photograph the area each night and find each and every extraction point, we can even count each bloody site to make sure we get 700 each day, total of 1400. This should be easier.

I don't mean to blow my own trumpet here, but I know how to take photographs in the way required to make the analysis irrefutable.

The only tricky point will be analysing the new grafts placed in the recipient.
I think this is less important at the moment, we still have too make questions on the donor regeneration and anyway most of us (IronMan aside) seem to accept the avg hairs per FU in the recipient is approx 1.5

Perhaps that figure of 1.5 will increase as the hairs will mature, but I seriously doubt it will ever reach 2 per FU AVG.

On a final note, I'm doing this for you guys, not myself. I have no choice other than Hasci, so I'm going regardless. Even if the AVG hair in my scalp was 1 FU I'd still go. Main reason is it's the least invasive form of hair transplant, FACT. I can't afford to have a full on FUE / FUT procedure, I believe I have a higher chance of flaring up my Lichen Planopilarus (Sp?) with more invasive forms of surgery, but that's another story!

So I don't really have a choice at the moment.

[Arashi]

Would anyone actually need 14,400 grafts? I think 12,000 even for an NW7 would be enough.

Exactly !! So on the one hand they claim they've cured hairloss (80% regen equals cure), but on the other hand they advise you to not go over 5k grafts !??! Makes no sense at all.

[caddarik79]

Would anyone actually need 14,400 grafts? I think 12,000 even for an NW7 would be enough.

I sent Hasci an email earlier today, not had a reply yet, but I'm expecting a reply tomorrow, otherwise I'll be re-sending it. I decided to take a different angle on this 3 HST question, at least to start with....

I've basically asked her how many more grafts that I can have extracted? She has my donor photos, so she should be able to give me an approximate figure.

If she says I can only have another 3000 grafts (6000 total) then I will be asking why!

20% of 6000 grafts is only 1200 graft loss, which shouldn't be that big a deal with most donors, HOWEVER my donor was shit to start with, so probably not the best example to be using. I personally believe I should be able to get to around 2000 graft loss before I get to the point of being unable to shave my head without noticing gaps too seriously. I don't mind a few hairless gaps here and there!

Worst case scenario, come this September, I'll make sure to photograph every ****ing FU in my donor area 2 or 3 nights before the procedure... I'll upload the photos for TBT users to analyse BEFORE I do my procedure...

Because I'm having the procedure over 2 days again, it should be relatively easier to photograph the area each night and find each and every extraction point, we can even count each bloody site to make sure we get 700 each day, total of 1400. This should be easier.

I don't mean to blow my own trumpet here, but I know how to take photographs in the way required to make the analysis irrefutable.

The only tricky point will be analysing the new grafts placed in the recipient.
I think this is less important at the moment, we still have too make questions on the donor regeneration and anyway most of us (IronMan aside) seem to accept the avg hairs per FU in the recipient is approx 1.5

Perhaps that figure of 1.5 will increase as the hairs will mature, but I seriously doubt it will ever reach 2 per FU AVG.

On a final note, I'm doing this for you guys, not myself. I have no choice other than Hasci, so I'm going regardless. Even if the AVG hair in my scalp was 1 FU I'd still go. Main reason is it's the least invasive form of hair transplant, FACT. I can't afford to have a full on FUE / FUT procedure, I believe I have a higher chance of flaring up my Lichen Planopilarus (Sp?) with more invasive forms of surgery, but that's another story!

So I don't really have a choice at the moment.

THANKS A LOT FOR BEING THAT COOL OF A GUY!!! you're the best here in tbt, I hope they will be able to offer you more, would be so cool for you!!!

[534623]

Exactly !! So on the one hand they claim they've cured hairloss (80% regen equals cure), but on the other hand they advise you to not go over 5k grafts !??! Makes no sense at all.

That's right, makes no sense at all - because they didn't "claim" neither this nor that anywhere.

[caddarik79]

That's right, makes no sense at all - because they didn't "claim" neither this nor that anywhere.

80-85% regeneration is close to a cure.
HSI making it denser then HST allows us to think they can do more than 50 graftd/cm2 which Gho confirmed.

Hairs can be harvested more then once, even if a bit more difficult...Gho said in the interview, they could do it twice, and three times...

An entire donor zone is more than 10.000 grafts.
If each graft can be harvested once with a 80% regen, and then a second time with another 80% or maybe 65% regen...

We should be able to reach 20.000 grafts...and not theoriticaly, but practicaly... (it is still not the cure, but it's not FUE anymore)
Unfortunately, they seem to be over-conservative for people trusting 100% their regenration rates.

The shadow zone that makes everybody uncomfortable, is that we have in theory, a far better and advanced technique that beats FUE, but in terms of result, it is still Hasson & Wong or Lorenzo or Feriduni or Rahal or Cole who bring the best results... how come?

If you have a product that is far better, you should provide mindblowing videos of far better results...

If you don't admit, it's a bit weird not to have it yet, you are just in denying.
We are not bashing, we are asking simple questions.

[534623]

If you don't admit, it's a bit weird not to have it yet, you are just in denying.
We are not bashing, we are asking simple questions.

Sure, simple questions like Arashi is asking over and over again the same simple questions Kristel from the HSCI. But unfortunately, he always gets over and over again complicated responses from her, which he don't understand.

[caddarik79]

Sure, simple questions like Arashi is asking over and over again the same simple questions Kristel from the HSCI. But unfortunately, he always gets over and over again complicated responses from her, which he don't understand.

haha, not so simple...I'm afraid.
You simplify when it arranges you, it's a bit stupid...you repeat the same type of answers too, you don't make things move forward, are you?

[534623]

haha, not so simple...I'm afraid.
You simplify when it arranges you, it's a bit stupid...you repeat the same type of answers too...

hmmm, maybe Kristel from the HSCI is doing exactly the same with Arashi; I mean, doing something with such guys as soon as I notice that the person is stupid.

[Arashi]

hmmm, maybe Kristel from the HSCI is doing exactly the same with Arashi; I mean, doing something with such guys as soon as I notice that the person is stupid.

At least I hope you understand why pretty much everybody hates you here, right ? That everlasting sarcasm that's so far from even being remotely funny ... Oh well, you'll never change, I get that much.

[Arashi]

Sure, simple questions like Arashi is asking over and over again the same simple questions Kristel from the HSCI. But unfortunately, he always gets over and over again complicated responses from her, which he don't understand.

I perfectly understand what she's saying though. She's kind of admitting that regrowth is nowhere near 80%, just like we saw in GC's case (where we saw 65% but that number was greatly skewed to the upside because of the failed extractions, hence it's most probably even lower than 50%). That's why they advised Dean to stop getting more HST's. That's why she advised me not to thicken up my remples with a 2nd HST. And that's why we haven't seen photo's from people who got more than 5k grafts. it all adds up.

[534623]

I perfectly understand what she's saying though.

No - because if you would, you wouldn't ask over and over again the same shit.

She's kind of admitting that regrowth is nowhere near 80%, just like we saw in GC's case (where it's most probably even lower than 50%).

That is just what YOU claim what she told you - or rather what you "think" what she told you; she told me recently on the phone that she is fully aware about the moron "Arashi" who makes her always ridiculous on hair loss forums, but she can't do anything about him. Sure, I can't prove what whe told me, but that's what she said.

[Arashi]

No - because if you would, you wouldn't ask over and over again the same shit.



That is just what YOU claim what she told you - or rather what you "think" what she told you; she told me recently on the phone that she is fully aware about the moron "Arashi", but she can't do anything about him. Sure, I can't prove what whe told me, but that's what she said.

I can see you never have met Kristel. She's a VERY polite, respectful and kind woman, she would NEVER call anybody a moron, not even her worst enemy. In fact she wrote in one of her emails that she didn't like how people on these forums were insulting each other and making the discussions so personal (if you want to, I could quote that). Not sure who she could have been referring to ... Hmm ...