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Thread: S-equol again

  1. #251
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    Any updates hmm?

  2. #252
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    My Free DHT results are back: This test was performed on a different day with a different lab: Total DHT was 9 (vs. the 7.6 on the previous test)
    Free DHT was at .66: Normal Adult Male Range 1-6.2 pg/ml. So that is a 34% reduction from the low normal range and about a 90% reduction from the high normal range.

    My understanding is that finasteride works by inhibiting testosterone from being converted to DHT thus lowering total levels of DHT. Equol, on the other hand, is supposed to bind to DHT thus lowering Free DHT. However, some of the equol research seems to indicate that equol also lowers total DHT. My total DHT seems to reflect an increased reduction in total DHT over what you might expect from finasteride alone as the max reduction I could find in the clinical trials I looked at was about 72% and my reduction was about 75% but from the low range. Nonetheless, I could just be a good responder to finasteride so you can't draw any real conclusions. However, since finasteride is not known to bind to DHT, I think it highly likely that my reduction in Free DHT is directly a result of equol. I believe Free DHT is supposed to average about 1% of total DHT whether you are at normal or finasteride reduced levels of DHT. But I'll get some clarification on this from my doctor who will give me a more expert opinion on the test results. I'll keep you posted.

  3. #253
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    Wait so your posting this while you currently taking finasteride and this equol stuff? What is even the point if your on finasteride of course thats whats doing it.

  4. #254
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    Disappointing news, my blood test results are work:

    No Equol: DHT 44 ng/dL
    48 MG Equol: DHT 41 ng/dL

    Only a three ng/dL difference in total DHT. This would make sense with PinotQ's total DHT results, as the 144mg he was taking would reduce his levels by about ~10 ng/dL, putting his finasteride-only levels around ~17 ng/dL. PinotQ, any thoughts on the results?

    I'm thinking that the equol works, but it'd be prohibitively expensive. I'd think you'd need at least 250 mg daily to have an effect that'd come close to fin. That'd be just about $30/day, or about $900/month perpetually, which isn't worth it in my opinion.

  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adaku View Post
    Disappointing news, my blood test results are work:

    No Equol: DHT 44 ng/dL
    48 MG Equol: DHT 41 ng/dL

    Only a three ng/dL difference in total DHT. This would make sense with PinotQ's total DHT results, as the 144mg he was taking would reduce his levels by about ~10 ng/dL, putting his finasteride-only levels around ~17 ng/dL. PinotQ, any thoughts on the results?

    I'm thinking that the equol works, but it'd be prohibitively expensive. I'd think you'd need at least 250 mg daily to have an effect that'd come close to fin. That'd be just about $30/day, or about $900/month perpetually, which isn't worth it in my opinion.
    Nobody commented my last few posts...

    I'm going all in.
    I'm ordering 100 grams of pure equol from china. I'll be taking around 0.5-1 gram DAILY, (that is 15-20x what you guys are taking - but I dont know how much of that will absorb) Anyhow, I expect that to last me 4+ months, I should see some results by then.

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananana View Post
    Nobody commented my last few posts...

    I'm going all in.
    I'm ordering 100 grams of pure equol from china. I'll be taking around 0.5-1 gram DAILY, (that is 15-20x what you guys are taking - but I dont know how much of that will absorb) Anyhow, I expect that to last me 4+ months, I should see some results by then.
    If it is pure equol, it will probably absorb well enough. Have you had any luck finding a lab to test the purity?
    In any case, keep us updated on your results.

  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adaku View Post
    Disappointing news, my blood test results are work:

    No Equol: DHT 44 ng/dL
    48 MG Equol: DHT 41 ng/dL

    Only a three ng/dL difference in total DHT. This would make sense with PinotQ's total DHT results, as the 144mg he was taking would reduce his levels by about ~10 ng/dL, putting his finasteride-only levels around ~17 ng/dL. PinotQ, any thoughts on the results?

    I'm thinking that the equol works, but it'd be prohibitively expensive. I'd think you'd need at least 250 mg daily to have an effect that'd come close to fin. That'd be just about $30/day, or about $900/month perpetually, which isn't worth it in my opinion.
    Adaku, The thing I am not clear about is what effect equol has on serum DHT. The studies show that equol reduces serum DHT. It sounds like they are referring to total DHT in those studies but can't be sure. And my total DHT levels seem unusually low for just finasteride but this may or may not have anything to do with equol. Equol's mechanism of action is to bind to DHT as opposed to preventing testosterone from being converted to DHT. I'm not an endocrinologist but that would seem to mean that total DHT would be lowered by finasteride but not by equol and that Free DHT would be lowered by equol yet unaffected by finasteride. I'm just speculating but if this is in fact what is happening, then the dosage of equol that I am taking reduced my Free DHT by somewhere between 34 and 90%. Your variation in total DHT from 44 to 41 may amount to nothing more than normal day to day variation just as my total DHT was 7.6 vs. 9 in the 2 tests I took. But that doesn't mean that your Free DHT hasn't been reduced. One of the reasons that I decided to take the Free DHT test was Gronholms post above questioning whether a total DHT test is capable of measuring the effect of equol. I think his logic makes a lot of sense. You might consider taking a Free DHT test although it runs about $290. I am coming up on the 5 month mark next week so I hope to be able to give an opinion, in just over a month, on what effect I think equol is having on my hair.

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adaku View Post
    If it is pure equol, it will probably absorb well enough. Have you had any luck finding a lab to test the purity?
    In any case, keep us updated on your results.
    No luck with lab, most of them are like "we do only scientific work here etc", if someone finds the lab,
    I'll be glad to send a gram.

    Anyhow, I'll take a pretty big dosage so we'll see what happens

  9. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adaku View Post
    Disappointing news, my blood test results are work:

    No Equol: DHT 44 ng/dL
    48 MG Equol: DHT 41 ng/dL

    Only a three ng/dL difference in total DHT. This would make sense with PinotQ's total DHT results, as the 144mg he was taking would reduce his levels by about ~10 ng/dL, putting his finasteride-only levels around ~17 ng/dL. PinotQ, any thoughts on the results?

    I'm thinking that the equol works, but it'd be prohibitively expensive. I'd think you'd need at least 250 mg daily to have an effect that'd come close to fin. That'd be just about $30/day, or about $900/month perpetually, which isn't worth it in my opinion.
    Your test results are not relevant. Contrarily to fin, Equol is NOT supposed to lower your total DHT. What it does is it binds to it, thus not allowing it to become free DHT and preventing it to bind to receptor sites.

    I think most people who have tried Equol in the past have not been sticking to it long enough. Like fin, it could take close to a year before you start getting results.

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinotQ View Post
    Free DHT would be lowered by equol yet unaffected by finasteride.
    Actually Finasteride lowers the production of all DHT, free DHT included.

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