Histogen show "cosmetic" results oct 2012 update - Page 7 - BaldTruthTalk.com
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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond84 View Post
    Dude seriously!

    If they're going to release this product, you will not receive each single injection until you get to 200!!!

    It'll be a intradermal pen with 8-10 pre-filled syringes attached to it! The entire treatment would take 15-20 minutes and you're done!
    that's not what they did in their pilot trial nor in their 1 1/2 Phase. You have no idea what you're talking about

    Quote Originally Posted by JJacobs152 View Post
    You guys are seriously just getting trolled by some basement indwelling balding virgin. It's a Friday night, guys should be out - not arguing on the net with some cue ball, and I mean cue ball literally.
    where am I wrong? Their treatment is not even close to being as effective as fin. The pictures are crap. They say that hair growth was achieved everywhere even on hairline. Okay, show us pictures. It's been years, what now? Another five years? Why can't you see that this was bad news

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2020 View Post
    that's not what they did in their pilot trial nor in their 1 1/2 Phase. You have no idea what you're talking about
    2020 that's why they are called a pilot trial!

    Let me give you an example:

    Spiriva is a drug used to open up your airways if you have emphysema. Its a capsule that goes into a device that you use to inhale the content. It was developed by Boehringer Ingelheim. During their trials they used their own crappy device. But once the trials were finished, they paid Pfizer a whole bunch of money to develop their delivery device for them which is now called the "Handihaler".

    The delivery devices will be modified and improved for launch. I promise you that

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond84 View Post
    2020 that's why they are called a pilot trial!

    Let me give you an example:

    Spiriva is a drug used to open up your airways if you have emphysema. Its a capsule that goes into a device that you use to inhale it the content. It was developed by Boehringer Ingelheim. During their trials they used their own crappy device. But once the trials were finished, they paid Pfizer a whole bunch of money to develop their delivery device for them which is now called the "Handihaler".

    The delivery devices will be modified and improved for launch. I promise you that
    ugh... you still don't see the big picture. Fine, let's say injections are perfected - guess what, a thousand injections still won't make a difference.
    Read my previous post about 20% actually being 4%.

  4. #64
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    To those worried about the macrophoto results, here are a few things to consider.

    1. These are only the 6 month results. Hair grows about 1cm per month. Both the subjects in this photo have fairly long hair. If every hair started growing on day 1, we might expect 6cm (just over 2") long hair by 6 months. But the bulk of those hairs don't start growing right away, and even the ones that do will cycle through a catagen and telogen phase before coming in anagen again. The average length of each new hair in those photos would be UNDER 1". So don't expect to see too much. It's equivalent to looking at someone who's had a HT at 6 months and saying it hasn't worked. It has worked - it just takes closer to 12 months for the full results to grow in and become cosmetically significant. That doesn't even consider that HT hairs grow in already terminal - it may take HSC hairs a couple of cycles for the follicle to repair enough to produce a full terminal hair.

    2. The areas treated were only 2cm x 2cm. You can't look at the scalp as a whole and say "it's still bald!" Of course it's still bald, 95% of it had no HSC injected into it. Macrophotos can't really show you growth unless the whole scalp is treated.

    3. Combine these two factors and it's pretty simple to understand that you shouldn't expect significant results from the macro photos this early in the piece. We need to see the micro photo results shaved to 1-2mm before we can really judge how effective it's been. Ziering's macro study won't do this.

    4. We know from the previous results that HSC had good results at 3 months, no significant improvement at 6 months, and then another good improvement at 12 months. No reason to think this will be any different.

    5. Anybody who debates 2020 on Histogen, save your breath. The guy has lost all reason and logic and now just trolls. He's a very bitter baldy.

    In conclusion - wait for the microphotos. Don't judge the macrophotos until you have a) full scalp coverage with repeat injections and b) 12 months time from the start of treatment

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pate View Post
    2. The areas treated were only 2cm x 2cm. You can't look at the scalp as a whole and say "it's still bald!" Of course it's still bald, 95% of it had no HSC injected into it. Macrophotos can't really show you growth unless the whole scalp is treated.
    not the trial that was done by Ziering. They tried using HSC as the actual treatment - no percentage crap nothing just plain pictures. Where are those pictures? What happened with the trial?


    Quote Originally Posted by Pate View Post
    5. Anybody who debates 2020 on Histogen, save your breath. The guy has lost all reason and logic and now just trolls. He's a very bitter baldy.
    yeah okay everything's fine those were very good news... seriously? What happened with the Ziering trial?

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    Why should anyone take you seriously really? You're a circus act that has displayed little to no understanding of anything having to do with science or the scientific process, and a shining example of what happens when a person of below average intelligence has access to endless amounts of information. It's the Dunning-Kruger Effect at its most extreme.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2020 View Post
    not the trial that was done by Ziering. They tried using HSC as the actual treatment - no percentage crap nothing just plain pictures. Where are those pictures? What happened with the trial?
    Okay, let me clarify - you should only debate 2020 when he's actually blatantly lying, as opposed to just giving a misleading opinion.

    Ziering's trial was 20 injections so was still only a very small area. 8 injections 4mm apart in a 3-2-3 pattern is an area of 0.8 x 0.8cm.

    20 injections in the same spacing in a 5-5-5-5 pattern is 1.6 x 1.2cm. In terms of area it's 3x the size of the other pattern but still only 0.3 square inches.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pate View Post
    Okay, let me clarify - you should only debate 2020 when he's actually blatantly lying, as opposed to just giving a misleading opinion.

    Ziering's trial was 20 injections so was still only a very small area. 8 injections 4mm apart in a 3-2-3 pattern is an area of 0.8 x 0.8cm.

    20 injections in the same spacing in a 5-5-5-5 pattern is 1.6 x 1.2cm. In terms of area it's 3x the size of the other pattern but still only 0.3 square inches.
    I have 2 questions:

    1) How many hair(shafts) or follicular units (estimated) are there within this observation area?

    2) How big (in cm² - estimated) is the observation area at all?

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pate View Post
    Okay, let me clarify - you should only debate 2020 when he's actually blatantly lying, as opposed to just giving a misleading opinion.

    Ziering's trial was 20 injections so was still only a very small area. 8 injections 4mm apart in a 3-2-3 pattern is an area of 0.8 x 0.8cm.

    20 injections in the same spacing in a 5-5-5-5 pattern is 1.6 x 1.2cm. In terms of area it's 3x the size of the other pattern but still only 0.3 square inches.
    You know, I was actually feeling happy for a change.

    ****ing 2020 and Iron man, IDIOTs, for bringing the whole place down.

  10. #70
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    Listen to the interview. Ziering people weren't even bothering injecting it all into one spot - they were aiming for "visible" results. No trichoscan, just plain photos. Spencer even suggested them to take videos.
    Ziering mentioned one patient in particular who got such good results that his friends/family were giving compliments. Unlikely with their 20-40% numbers but still I would like to see those pictures.

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