Updated Research and Knowledge - Cutting Edge

[Chemical]

@SriHanuman

If its within your budget you will better off with a custom vehicle using this ethyl alcohol from amazon uk:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Spinnrad-Ethyl-Alcohol-96-5%25-100/dp/B001TJ0NJY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451336373&sr=8-1&keywords=ethyl+alcohol

mixed with this PG:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/1000ml-Classikool-Propylene-Glycol-Pharma/dp/B00BHGM05O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451336492&sr=8-1&keywords=propylene+glycol

That premade tincture wont be as effective as a custom Ethanol/PG vehicle.

[Seuxin]

A good vehicle is REALLY important to have real result ! Using eth/pg is not a good idea. You can improve it, here is a good formula :

-> Ethanol / DMI / Polysorbate 80

[potato1987]

Is it possible for someone to list the items required (amazon, ebay) and instruction on what to do, perhaps a youtube video to ensure we are consistent? I do apologise but I don't understand enough of the terms and so wouldn't have a clue.

Happy to document results! Can't use minox however it really messed up my face.

[SriHanuman]

@SriHanuman

If its within your budget you will better off with a custom vehicle using this ethyl alcohol from amazon uk:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Spinnrad-Ethyl-Alcohol-96-5%25-100/dp/B001TJ0NJY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451336373&sr=8-1&keywords=ethyl+alcohol

mixed with this PG:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/1000ml-Classikool-Propylene-Glycol-Pharma/dp/B00BHGM05O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451336492&sr=8-1&keywords=propylene+glycol

That premade tincture wont be as effective as a custom Ethanol/PG vehicle.

For sure that would be better. But I was thinking of using this tincture until I see any results or couple of months go by. If I see results, even a little bit, then will I go with a custom vehicle. Lets see if this has any effect at all, and I think this tincture will provide some, if it works.

[SriHanuman]

double post....

[InBeforeTheCure]

Haven't people tried topical EGCG before with no substantial results?

[joshuk]

Haven't people tried topical EGCG before with no substantial results?

we will soon find out as in a couple of days i will be starting a custom mix of EGCG/oleuropein i dont mind guinea pigging myself as im using experimental hairloss drugs anyway what could go wrong lmao!!

[iaskdumbquestions]

I am willing to try this and document results but let me just get this straight:

I should buy this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GZRIW5C/ref=s9_simh_gw_g121_i1_r?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=1GAD1STY1SHDM19KNS0V&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2079475242&pf_rd_i=desktop

And then open the capsules and put them into this:

http://www.amazon.com/KIRKLAND-MINOXIDIL-Topical-Unscented-Regrowth/dp/B00L7PQLAA/ref=sr_1_18?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1451404124&sr=1-18&keywords=minoxidil+kirkland

I'm not to sure how to open the minoxidil up, but I'll have to play around with it. Also, I asked this previously but, what is your opinion on Setiprant? On page 1 you suggested that the body will compensate by creating more DHT. Would you apply the same reasoning to Seti?

[joshuk]

I am willing to try this and document results but let me just get this straight:

I should buy this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GZRIW5C/ref=s9_simh_gw_g121_i1_r?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=1GAD1STY1SHDM19KNS0V&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2079475242&pf_rd_i=desktop

And then open the capsules and put them into this:

http://www.amazon.com/KIRKLAND-MINOXIDIL-Topical-Unscented-Regrowth/dp/B00L7PQLAA/ref=sr_1_18?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1451404124&sr=1-18&keywords=minoxidil+kirkland

I'm not to sure how to open the minoxidil up, but I'll have to play around with it. Also, I asked this previously but, what is your opinion on Setiprant? On page 1 you suggested that the body will compensate by creating more DHT. Would you apply the same reasoning to Seti?

you cant use the foam to dissolve the oleuropein your gonna need to use the liquid unless you somehow heat it into a liquid then dissolve it or something but the foam does not have proplyene glycol in it so i dont think it will absorb.... but you can try

[iaskdumbquestions]

you cant use the foam to dissolve the oleuropein your gonna need to use the liquid unless you somehow heat it into a liquid then dissolve it or something but the foam does not have proplyene glycol in it so i dont think it will absorb.... but you can try

I couldn't find a seller that ships the liquid to the United States. :/

Edit: Found this

http://www.amazon.com/Foods-Olive-Glycerite-Oleuropein-ounce/dp/B0019LWTWQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1451406073&sr=8-2&keywords=Olive+Leaf+Extract+Liquid

Ships to the United States and has 18% Oleurpein. Not as strong as the 20% you posted earlier, but it's the best I could find.

[joshuk]

I couldn't find a seller that ships the liquid to the United States. :/

Edit: Found this

http://www.amazon.com/Foods-Olive-Glycerite-Oleuropein-ounce/dp/B0019LWTWQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1451406073&sr=8-2&keywords=Olive+Leaf+Extract+Liquid

Ships to the United States and has 18% Oleurpein. Not as strong as the 20% you posted earlier, but it's the best I could find.

dont think the premade stuff is going to work to be honest, cant you get kirkland liquid minoxdil from costco or walmart, im in the uk so i dont know for sure but i have heard of people getting it from these places.

failing that get everclear and propelyne glycol and make your own mix like im doing would be alot better. the reason for the premade stuff not working is the ethanol content is not high enough or stays long enough on the scalp to absorb properly.

i bought the ethanol tincture earlier in this thread and it did not absorb properly and left a brown stain on my scalp,not only that the oleuropein content is way to high chemical said you need it to be around 1.5mg/ml the one that you are using is the one i had and the oleuropein is 31mg/ml. have you applied it yet you will see what i mean by the staining of the scalp

hope this helps... but i would honestly make your own solution if you can if not use minoxil liquid as a vehicle and add the caps into that

[Sogeking]

dont think the premade stuff is going to work to be honest, cant you get kirkland liquid minoxdil from costco or walmart, im in the uk so i dont know for sure but i have heard of people getting it from these places.

failing that get everclear and propelyne glycol and make your own mix like im doing would be alot better. the reason for the premade stuff not working is the ethanol content is not high enough or stays long enough on the scalp to absorb properly.

i bought the ethanol tincture earlier in this thread and it did not absorb properly and left a brown stain on my scalp,not only that the oleuropein content is way to high chemical said you need it to be around 1.5mg/ml the one that you are using is the one i had and the oleuropein is 31mg/ml. have you applied it yet you will see what i mean by the staining of the scalp

hope this helps... but i would honestly make your own solution if you can if not use minoxil liquid as a vehicle and add the caps into that

Let me just check if I got everything right. I found liquid form of 65% oleuropein with 270mg per mL. I though about using one ml of this oleuropein diluted in a 180-200 ml mix of ethanol and PG. m i getting this right? And afterwards dropping one teavigo capsule in that as well.
I'll probably add minox to the regime later.

[joshuk]

Let me just check if I got everything right. I found liquid form of 65% oleuropein with 270mg per mL. I though about using one ml of this oleuropein diluted in a 180-200 ml mix of ethanol and PG. m i getting this right? And afterwards dropping one teavigo capsule in that as well.
I'll probably add minox to the regime later.

i guess you could do that yes, that should give you about 1.35mg/ml for 200ml of eth/pg and 1.5mg/ml in 180ml which would seem about right what chemical says, the only thing is 270mg/ml IS ALOT of oleuropein are you sure thats the correct dosage as i was using a very strong oleuropein tincture of amazon and that was only 31/mg per ml. yours is 8 x the strength???

[Sogeking]

i guess you could do that yes, that should give you about 1.35mg/ml for 200ml of eth/pg and 1.5mg/ml in 180ml which would seem about right what chemical says, the only thing is 270mg/ml IS ALOT of oleuropein are you sure thats the correct dosage as i was using a very strong oleuropein tincture of amazon and that was only 31/mg per ml. yours is 8 x the strength???

Yes I know. A really strong concentration. Of course this is listed on the website of the shop in my country that sells it. It may be wrongly written down. Because on iHerbs most oleuropein liquids come at concentrations ranging from 6% to 20%. Have to check in person. But if does come at concentration of 65% at least it should last me a long time.
I'm gonna order PG from that site you linked, already ordered ECGC. Gonna buy oleuropein on Thursday. I plan to put pics here and I plan to test this out for 3-4 months. If it starts showing some results I'll add minox to the mix at some small concentrations.

[Chemical]

A good vehicle is REALLY important to have real result ! Using eth/pg is not a good idea. You can improve it, here is a good formula :

-> Ethanol / DMI / Polysorbate 80

The DMI is a good option, it helps carry molecules quite well across the skin layer. The poly 80 not so sure, I've seen no literature on it although its commonly used in alot of creams. But we want to keep the vehicle lean, cheap, and easily made. I can do some reading but is there really a compelling advantage in using DMI + emollient?

Is it possible for someone to list the items required (amazon, ebay) and instruction on what to do, perhaps a youtube video to ensure we are consistent?

I think if you can wait, you should wait. Keeper has a manufacturer that is willing make a consistent formula which can be distributed to users free of charge for trialling, otherwise you will potentially be wasting money on an experimental protocol.

If you're in the US:

Amazon US - Oleuropein - $7.99
Amazon US - Propylene Glycol - Pick whichever is cheapest
Everclear 95%/190 proof - $16.99 - You should try and find the best deal available instead of just using this link since I cant vouch for this site.

For those that want to use minox:

Amazon US - Kirkland Minoxidil 5% - 6 month supply - $29

Simply drop the capsule contents into the solution, and shake vigorously, this isnt chemistry whatsoever.

Amazon US - Teavigo EGCG - Healthy Origins - $14
Amazon US - Teavigo EGCG - Swanson - $14

Haven't people tried topical EGCG before with no substantial results?

Ironically many people have also tried olive oil with little success = oleuropein doesnt work?

People at the other hairloss forum have tried: http://www.*****************/interac...r-growth-study

Some guy claims to have seen results:

http://www.regrowth.com/hair-loss-forums/topic/my-results-with-egcg-and-ode-to-my-methodology/

Someone has been using it on their face to reduce facial hair too:

Personal note. As many of you know, Ive been trying topical homemade green tea extract on one side of my face to see if it will reduce hair. I haven't even been doing it a month yet, but the beard on my right cheek is weaker, smaller in circumference, and lighter colored than on my left when I look close. I can also feel the difference when I run my hand down each side. I think I have found the topical anti-androgen Ive been looking for to add to my internal finasteride. Im going to call it a day on further research on a topical anti-androgen. I really think this one is sufficient

http://www.*************/hair-loss/b...casc-DESC.html

This patent by Gillette on syrian hamsters that have AR dependent hair, showed that EGCG significantly reduced hair size and growth at concentrations up to 30%.

I think alot of people that try different stuff probably try them in a vaccuum, and if it works then only very small minority will post their findings on the internet whereas the vast majority will say that it didnt work. The theory is there, and on paper/animals there is convincing evidence of its efficacy. But we dont know for sure if using it in a proper vehicle or along side other treatments will yield results. Like Josh has said, this is still an experiment, I'll never know until I try.

I asked this previously but, what is your opinion on Setiprant? On page 1 you suggested that the body will compensate by creating more DHT. Would you apply the same reasoning to Seti?

I'm sorry I forgot to answer this question. Setipiprant is a PGD2 blocker, I'm under impression PGD2 isnt the main culprit but it's metabolite 15-dPGJ2 that kills hair follicles - as stated by Cotsarelis. By reducing the expression of COX-2, PGD2 should be rate limited and subsequently result in less 15-dPGJ2 being synthesized. Its a factor, but not the only or most important one, I will investigate this matter in detail later on. If you want to use Seti and can afford it - I dont see any harm, unlike fin. It's probably not going to be anything groundbreaking in my opinion.

15-dPGJ2 induces apoptosis (fig. S2A), as evidenced by plasma membrane blebbing and cell retraction/shrinkage. 15-dPGJ2 also decreased cell density, cell division, and live-cell numbers (fig. S2, B to D). Perhaps because the origin of these keratinocytes was not the hair follicle, PGD2 had no such effect on the cells. However, 15-dPGJ2 did increase sub-G1 DNA quantities and activated caspase 3 in human keratinocytes, which are features of apoptotic cell death (fig. S2, E to G). We therefore hypothesized that at least 15-dPGJ2, if not also PGD2, could directly inhibit hair growth in vivo.

Let me just check if I got everything right. I found liquid form of 65% oleuropein with 270mg per mL. I though about using one ml of this oleuropein diluted in a 180-200 ml mix of ethanol and PG.

Josh is correct. Whats the oleuropein brand you're using (link)?