I come away from this with some confirmations - from Dr. Gho himself.
1) Dr. Gho admits that he cannot restore full density. The degree in density restoration from his treatment is not much better than traditional FUT hair transplantation - if better at all.
2) Regeneration realistically takes about seven years and therefore it will be several years before Dr. Gho will be able to prove regeneration in any truly significant way (non-microscopic photographic evidence).
3) Even Dr. Gho realizes that it is not a good idea to restore a male to a Norwood I.
4) Even Dr. Gho realizes that hair transplantation is not a good idea for patients who are younger than their 30's and less than a Norwood III.
I gained a lot of respect for Dr. Gho with this interview.
11-08-2012 11:55 AM
yeahyeahyeah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
I come away from this with some confirmations - from Dr. Gho himself.
1) Dr. Gho admits that he cannot restore full density. The degree in density restoration from his treatment is not much better than traditional FUT hair transplantation - if better at all.
2) Regeneration realistically takes about seven years and therefore it will be several years before Dr. Gho will be able to prove regeneration in any truly significant way (non-microscopic photographic evidence).
3) Even Dr. Gho realizes that it is not a good idea to restore a male to a Norwood I.
4) Even Dr. Gho realizes that hair transplantation is not a good idea for patients who are younger than their 30's and less than a Norwood III.
I gained a lot of respect for Dr. Gho with this interview.
Yeah, so much for the holy grail in HT treatment.
Than again, maybe Gho is just being over conservative. There are some HT drs like this, such as Bernstein.
11-08-2012 12:07 PM
Tracy C
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
Yeah, so much for the holy grail in HT treatment.
No form of hair transplantation will ever be "the Holy Grail" of hair restoration. Non-surgical regeneration such as Histogen (injections alone) will be the "Holy Grail" with Replicel's minimal surgical process (punch + injections) not far behind.
However, even though 50% to 60% density restoration is not much better than traditional FUT, it is still significant.
I should have added a fifth confirmation to my post above...
5) Dr. Gho himself confirmed that he can achieve a better harvest from a previous FUT patient than he can from a previous FUE patient. That is a very important point for those of us who have already had a procedure - or those who are considering a procedure in the near future.
11-08-2012 12:46 PM
534623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
I should have added a fifth confirmation to my post above...
5) Dr. Gho himself confirmed that he can achieve a better harvest from a previous FUT patient than he can from a previous FUE patient. That is a very important point for those of us who have already had a procedure - or those who are considering a procedure in the near future.
No form of hair transplantation will ever be "the Holy Grail" of hair restoration. Non-surgical regeneration such as Histogen (injections alone) will be the "Holy Grail" with Replicel's minimal surgical process (punch + injections) not far behind.
However, even though 50% to 60% density restoration is not much better than traditional FUT, it is still significant.
I should have added a fifth confirmation to my post above...
5) Dr. Gho himself confirmed that he can achieve a better harvest from a previous FUT patient than he can from a previous FUE patient. That is a very important point for those of us who have already had a procedure - or those who are considering a procedure in the near future.
If I have to wear a concealer, it is not worth the time or aggrevation.
Disappointed. I was expecting at least 70 or even 80% with this.
11-08-2012 01:03 PM
yeahyeahyeah
Also I dont understand why Gho doesn't train up Doctors like:
Ferundi and kessel
Who are based in Europe.
11-08-2012 03:25 PM
Tracy C
Quote:
Originally Posted by 534623
Wake up girlie.
I have obviously been much more awake about this you have been. Maybe you should watch the interview again and try to stay awake this time.
BTW, there is absolutely no need for the gross pictures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
If I have to wear a concealer, it is not worth the time or aggrevation.
Then you might as well shave your head and move on with your life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
Disappointed. I was expecting at least 70 or even 80% with this.
That is not likely to ever happen with transplantation. Wait for Histogen and Replicel if that is what you need to be happy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
Also I dont understand why Gho doesn't train up Doctors like:
Then you should probably watch the interview again. Dr. Gho clearly explained the profile of the doctors he wants to train.
11-08-2012 05:48 PM
yeahyeahyeah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
I have obviously been much more awake about this you have been. Maybe you should watch the interview again and try to stay awake this time.
BTW, there is absolutely no need for the gross pictures.
Then you might as well shave your head and move on with your life.
At a NW2 with thick hair, not going to happen. :)
Quote:
That is not likely to ever happen with transplantation. Wait for Histogen and Replicel if that is what you need to be happy.
I am.
And btw histogen is no magic cure, it is only effective on hair that is thinning not slick bald scalp.
11-08-2012 06:09 PM
Tracy C
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
At a NW2 with thick hair, not going to happen. :)
Then why are you even here. Go out and live your life to the fullest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
And btw histogen is no magic cure, it is only effective on hair that is thinning not slick bald scalp.
That is pure uninformed speculation that makes no sense at all and has no merit. If the treatment repairs follicles, it repairs follicles. It does not make any sense that it could not work on a slick bald head. The injections don't care if the scalp is slick bald or not. If it works, it works. You are paying too much attention to people who obviously have no clue about what they talk about and not enough attention to those few people who actually do have clue about what they are talking about. I have no idea why you are doing this - but whatever. Knock yourself out.
11-08-2012 06:11 PM
yeahyeahyeah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
Then why are you even here. Go out and live your life to the fullest.
That is pure uninformed speculation that makes no sense at all and has no merit. If the treatment repairs follicles, it repairs follicles. It does not make any sense that it could not work on a slick bald head. The injections don't care if the scalp is slick bald or not. If it works, it works. You are paying too much attention to people who obviously have no clue about what they talk about and not enough attention to those few people who actually do have clue about what they are talking about. I have no idea why you are doing this - but whatever. Knock yourself out.
Have you even seen their latest results?
11-08-2012 06:20 PM
Tracy C
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
Have you even seen their latest results?
Of course I have. I am paying a whole lot more attention than you are. I also know how to interpret data. You obviously do not.
11-08-2012 06:41 PM
yeahyeahyeah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
Of course I have. I am paying a whole lot more attention than you are. I also know how to interpret data. You obviously do not.
Boy, you are so conceited.
11-08-2012 07:59 PM
JJJJrS
First, I'd like to thank Spencer for the interesting interview. :) I think nearly all of the key issues remaining from the first interview were addressed.
The most interesting things from my perspective:
- After regeneration, the hair root becomes slightly "modified". Although it is possible to extract this follicle during subsequent procedures two, three times, it is a little more difficult.
- Dr. Gho mentions a patient who has had 9 procedures over 7 years and 13k transplanted grafts, who now has a full head of hair and minimal loss of density in the donor area. He promises at least 80-90% donor regeneration with HST.
- Dr. Gho describes the procedure as producing no visible scarring, citing recent patients who have shaved their donor area after the procedure as examples.
- A limiting factor is how densely Gho is willing to pack the grafts. The maximum density he will transplant is 50-60%, sometimes 70%, of the original density, based on the patient.
- Dr. Gho does not seem to have any plans to train existing hair transplant surgeons in HST. He seems to have a strong preference for new medical doctors who do not come from the hair transplant field.
- A new clinic is opening in Jakarta, Indonesia and possibly Singapore in the future. However, the chances of him offering the procedure in the US in the near future is low due to FDA approval for an ingredient in his "hair fertilizing solution."
- Spencer seems interested in visiting HASCI possibly next year and documenting a procedure, possibly live, at the clinic.
11-08-2012 08:11 PM
534623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
I am paying a whole lot more attention than you are. I also know how to interpret data. You obviously do not.
Coooool.
1) Please interpret my interpretation in this thread:
2) Thereafter, please try also to interpret Dr. Cole's Histogen-Images-Interpretation - and google "Caution Advised Regarding Hair Marketing Campaigns".
3) Let us know your final interpretation.
11-08-2012 08:17 PM
JJJJrS
Another point I forgot to mention:
- He will not turn down difficult patients like burn victims or young men with a high degree of baldness
My impression after watching the interview is that Dr. Gho is sincere. I think it's a positive sign that he is willing to talk honestly about the limitations of HST instead of sensationalizing the procedure. I think the fact that he's willing to tackle even the most difficult hair loss patients is another positive sign.
11-08-2012 08:26 PM
534623
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJJrS
First, I'd like to thank Spencer for the interesting interview. :) I think nearly all of the key issues remaining from the first interview were addressed.
This is true. The interview is pretty cool. Anyway, finally we could hear nearly all remaining key issues straight from Dr. Gho’s mouth. But what we still don't know: The reason for the delayed publication of the interview ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJJrS
- Dr. Gho does not seem to have any plans to train existing hair transplant surgeons in HST. He seems to have a strong preference for new medical doctors who do not come from the hair transplant field.
Yeah - no wonder why you fall out with everyone :)
11-09-2012 06:43 AM
Artista
I had listened to the Gho interview a few times last night.
I THANK Spencer for taking the time to do this and I was moderately impressed overall.
Tracy, your points are very valid and I thank you for creating this post.
What I am having a hard time understanding is the first of his 4 reasons that this method is not being brought to the USA.
To paraphrase ,
Dr Gho said that 'some materials and instruments have a special (?) medium that cant be used in USA'
I could not understand what the (?) word was.
Further more whatever it is, why would it not be allowed by the FDA?
One last thing, I do not understand why some of you have been criticizing Tracy here. She makes valid points in re to this topic and I respect the woman. Is it due to a personal thing from earlier conversations? NOT that i want to side track the Gho topic.
Back to the Gho limitations ..anyone have an answer to my question? Thanks.
11-09-2012 08:08 AM
chrisdav
I think it was good, and Spencer asked all the right questions.
11-09-2012 08:51 AM
amadeus
I think the interview was excellent and very telling to say the least. Personally I think Tracy is right on point with her assessment. We are all desperate for a better technique, but I am in no way convinced that HST is it.
I was a little taken aback at Gho's uncomfortable response when Kobren asked if he had photos of the patient who had 9 procedures over a 7 year time period. We all know that anyone will sign off on non-identifying clinical images and most doctors, especially those who are trying to revolutionize an industry would have solid documentation of such a significant medical achievement. He says that this patient now has a full head of hair, so I guess we should all just take his word for it right?:)
Another issue I had was when Gho claimed to have 5000 happy patients. Where is all of the documentation? How does every hair transplant surgeon on the planet have the ability to document their patient results time and time again, but Gho can't seem to accomplish this? Also, in order to have performed over 5000 procedures in the 7 years since HST has been released, he would have to perform an average of 714 transplants a year. Since he claims to only perform one case per day and only relatively recently (past couple of years) trained new doctors, how could this be possible, even if they work 365 day per year?
Like tracy said, I do respect Dr. Gho for doing the interview with Spencer, but his presentation just does not add up. Just because he says he can regenerate a 3 hair follicular unit, does not mean that he can! Now I am not saying that he can't, but this is not proof.
Another issue is how does he know when he is going back into the same follicle that was previously harvested? If there is no scaring or markings indicating that he had been there before, the truth is he can not know. There is really no logical explanation as to how he could decipher if he is re-utilizing a previously extracted follicle. It would be more of a hit or miss scenario since he is harvesting the same area, he must just assume that some of the tissue is coming from previously use follicles, but there is no way he can be sure.
I really did think that this was a great interview. Spencer asked all of the right questions and I think that we got some telling responses from Dr. Gho. We can not just take Dr. Gho's word for this. In my opinion, things just don't fully add up yet.
11-09-2012 11:12 AM
Kirby_
Quote:
Originally Posted by amadeus
I think the interview was excellent and very telling to say the least. Personally I think Tracy is right on point with her assessment.
[Post removed]
As stated before, BTT intends to fully comply with Dr. Gho's request to discourage and moderate inappropriate, inaccurate, disparaging, intentionally argumentative and defamatory commentary concerning his colleagues, and other available hair restoration techniques (FUE/FUT) in relation to HST or Dr. Coen Gho himself.
11-09-2012 12:57 PM
yeahyeahyeah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artista
I had listened to the Gho interview a few times last night.
I THANK Spencer for taking the time to do this and I was moderately impressed overall.
Tracy, your points are very valid and I thank you for creating this post.
What I am having a hard time understanding is the first of his 4 reasons that this method is not being brought to the USA.
To paraphrase ,
Dr Gho said that 'some materials and instruments have a special (?) medium that cant be used in USA'
I could not understand what the (?) word was.
Further more whatever it is, why would it not be allowed by the FDA?
One last thing, I do not understand why some of you have been criticizing Tracy here. She makes valid points in re to this topic and I respect the woman. Is it due to a personal thing from earlier conversations? NOT that i want to side track the Gho topic.
Back to the Gho limitations ..anyone have an answer to my question? Thanks.
We criticise Tracey because she has an attitude problem.
She can't seem to speak to people without having an arrogant tone about her.
If used to think it was me, but she falls out with a lot of posters on here :)
TBH I wouldn't be bothered if it hits the US or not, simply because if it only regeneates 50-60 percent then it is not that much better then FUE.FUT.
I agree with Amadeus. We are all really in dire need for a much better treatment for hair loss but I'm not convinced that Gho has it either. I never jumped on the Gho bandwagon because I simply don't believe that any form of hair transplantation is the answer that the majority of us are looking for. Even if Gho is able to regenerate donor hair, it would take lots and lots of hair transplants just to achieve anything close to a full head of hair, especially on a Norwood 6 or 7. And this wouldn't even work for thinning areas of the scalp, which would be prone to shock loss.
What we really need is some kind of stem cell hair regrowth (what Aderans and Replicel are working on) or a way to activate dormant hair follicles (what Histogen is working on). If something like this would be brought to the mainstream, it would be beyond awesome: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a6OdEa5VFNV8. But I really think lots of doctors have tunnel vision; they exclusively perform hair transplants and nothing else, and do not look into any kind of new and non-surgical methods to regrow hair. I really believe that is because hair transplants generate loads and loads of money. We really need non- or minimally-invasive methods to regrow hair or stimulate its regrowth, not simply relocate it from one place to another.
11-09-2012 01:28 PM
DepressedByHairLoss
And also, Spencer confirmed what I suspected to be true with Gho's method: that after you pluck a follicle, the follicle that supposedly regenerates in its place is a degraded version of the original follicle.
11-09-2012 07:16 PM
Tracy C
Quote:
Originally Posted by 534623
Coooool.
1) Please interpret my interpretation in this thread.
This question highlights why I want to see non-microscopic photos of Dr. Gho's results. Since hair follicles have cycles of growth, shedding and resting, it is basically impossible to do direct microscopic side-by-side comparisons of photos that are three months or more apart.
A very important detail you need to take into consideration is that 3 months is plenty long enough for hair follicles to go into a different phase of their cycles. It is not at all likely that all the hair follicles that were present in the first picture actually have hairs poking out of them in the second picture. Close examination of the two photos does reveal that you are not seeing all the same hairs in both pictures. That is to be expected because hair follicles are not static and they all cycle at different times.
Another very important detail is that every treatment for hair loss induces a period of shedding. This also reduces the possibility that you are looking at the exact same hairs in the second picture that you can see in the first picture. Again, close examination of the two photos does reveal that you are not seeing all the same hairs in both pictures. And again, this is to be expected.
I do find it interesting that you arrived at the exact same hair count as before. That is very interesting indeed, but still inconclusive.
11-09-2012 07:26 PM
Tracy C
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
Yeah - no wonder why you fall out with everyone :)
Certainly not everyone. Just people with attitudes like yours.
11-09-2012 07:33 PM
Tracy C
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
We criticise Tracey because she has an attitude problem.
My attitude is actually not the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
She can't seem to speak to people without having an arrogant tone about her.
I do not use an arrogant tone nor are there arrogant tones in my thoughts. If you are hearing an arrogant tone, it is coming from within your own head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
If used to think it was me, but she falls out with a lot of posters on here :)
Actually, it's not that many - and those that have don't really matter much.
11-09-2012 07:41 PM
JJJJrS
Quote:
Originally Posted by DepressedByHairLoss
I agree with Amadeus. We are all really in dire need for a much better treatment for hair loss but I'm not convinced that Gho has it either. I never jumped on the Gho bandwagon because I simply don't believe that any form of hair transplantation is the answer that the majority of us are looking for. Even if Gho is able to regenerate donor hair, it would take lots and lots of hair transplants just to achieve anything close to a full head of hair, especially on a Norwood 6 or 7. And this wouldn't even work for thinning areas of the scalp, which would be prone to shock loss.
What we really need is some kind of stem cell hair regrowth (what Aderans and Replicel are working on) or a way to activate dormant hair follicles (what Histogen is working on). If something like this would be brought to the mainstream, it would be beyond awesome: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a6OdEa5VFNV8. But I really think lots of doctors have tunnel vision; they exclusively perform hair transplants and nothing else, and do not look into any kind of new and non-surgical methods to regrow hair. I really believe that is because hair transplants generate loads and loads of money. We really need non- or minimally-invasive methods to regrow hair or stimulate its regrowth, not simply relocate it from one place to another.
Of course, I totally agree that some type of injection that would restore your original density, or the hairs that are currently in miniaturization to a full level, would be the ideal treatment.
Hair transplants depend on the skill of your surgeon, so the final aesthetic results will always depend on the artistic skill of the surgeon, regardless of how big your donor supply is.
At the same time, I think the injection I described is unfortunately decades away. I really have no faith in Replicel and Histogen after the recent results and pictures they posted.
At this point, I'm more interested in enjoying my hair now instead of waiting until I'm 40-50 years old for some miracle cure. In the end you have to make due with what what's available and ask yourself whether it's worth it or not.
11-09-2012 07:41 PM
JJJJrS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artista
What I am having a hard time understanding is the first of his 4 reasons that this method is not being brought to the USA.
To paraphrase ,
Dr Gho said that 'some materials and instruments have a special (?) medium that cant be used in USA'
I could not understand what the (?) word was.
Further more whatever it is, why would it not be allowed by the FDA?
I think the word he uses is "preservation."
After extracting the grafts and before implanting them in the recipient area, HASCI stores the grafts in a special preservation medium which apparently increases the grafts' chances of survival and is essential to the success of the procedure.
The medium is composed of the following ingredients: sodium chloride, potassium chloride, magnesium sulphate, sodium phosphate, calcium chloride, glucose, sodium bicarbonate, sodium lactate, sodium pyruvate, human serum albumin, insulin, bis(maltolato)oxovanadium (BMOV) and alpha-tocopherol (vitamin E) (Hair Science Institute).
One of those ingredients apparently isn't allowed in the US. I'm not exactly sure but I believe the ingredient that is causing the problems is human serum albumin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
TBH I wouldn't be bothered if it hits the US or not, simply because if it only regeneates 50-60 percent then it is not that much better then FUE.FUT.
During the interview he says that a minimum 80-90% of the extracted grafts regenerate. If that's true, then it's obviosuly a much, much better procedure than FUE or FUT, which have 0% regeneration.
11-09-2012 09:34 PM
yeahyeahyeah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
Certainly not everyone. Just people with attitudes like yours.
Let me rephrase:
"Just with people whose attitude contradicts mine"
:)
11-09-2012 09:35 PM
yeahyeahyeah
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJJrS
During the interview he says that a minimum 80-90% of the extracted grafts regenerate. If that's true, then it's obviosuly a much, much better procedure than FUE or FUT, which have 0% regeneration.
Then why is the density only 50-60%. BTW at 50% is when you first start noticing thinning.
Maybe a better question to ask, what density can NW6s achieve when maxed out of their donor?
11-09-2012 09:37 PM
yeahyeahyeah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
My attitude is actually not the problem.
I do not use an arrogant tone nor are there arrogant tones in my thoughts. If you are hearing an arrogant tone, it is coming from within your own head.
Actually, it's not that many - and those that have don't really matter much.
If I really could be bothered. Which I am not. I can go through your post achieve and find at least 5+ different posters falling out with you.
11-09-2012 10:53 PM
Tracy C
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
Then why is the density only 50-60%.
You really need to learn how to pay attention if you are going to participate in discussions. That is the achievable density of the recipient area. The reason that is the achievable density is because that is the maximum density that can be safely planted into the recipient area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
BTW at 50% is when you first start noticing thinning.
For some people yes. It depends on the texture of their hair. However, 50% density is all that is needed to achieve the look of a full head of hair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
Maybe a better question to ask, what density can NW6s achieve when maxed out of their donor?
Regardless of how much area needs to be covered, the maximum density is between 50% and 60%.
11-09-2012 11:03 PM
Tracy C
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
I can go through your post achieve and find at least 5+ different posters falling out with you.
5, 10, 15, 20 or more, it is still an insignificant number. It does not matter how many anyways because whoever they are they just don't matter. I get tons of PM's from members telling me how much they appreciate me and that they want me to stick around in spite of these jerks - yes I am not the only one who realizes that these people are jerks. Spencer himself encourages me to stick around here. He has even done so during the show. So guess what?..
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahyeahyeah
Let me rephrase:
"Just with people whose attitude contradicts mine"
You are reaching into thin air - yet there is nothing to grasp.
11-09-2012 11:09 PM
didi
Average donor density is about 80g/cm2..some have more and some less
he said that 50-60 g/cm2 is possible with hst and sometimes 70 grafts per cm2
in most cases 50-60 grafts per cm2 is more than 50% of density , its more like 70% of original density
11-10-2012 03:38 AM
yeahyeahyeah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
You really need to learn how to pay attention if you are going to participate in discussions. That is the achievable density of the recipient area. The reason that is the achievable density is because that is the maximum density that can be safely planted into the recipient area.
For some people yes. It depends on the texture of their hair. However, 50% density is all that is needed to achieve the look of a full head of hair.
Regardless of how much area needs to be covered, the maximum density is between 50% and 60%.
Stop being so patronising; you can make the point without doing so.
**** - its annoying.
11-10-2012 03:50 AM
yeahyeahyeah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy C
Spencer himself encourages me to stick around here. He has even done so during the show. So guess what?..
So that gives you the excuse to act like a conceited jerk?
