Going to see an endocrinologist. What questions do you want answered?

[Ball D]

An endocrinologist is a doctor that specialises in the endocrine system, the system that finasteride (propecia) effects. I was referred by my GP because i want to know more specifically how/why reduction of DHT effects me the way it does, rather than just relying on all the heresay online. I'm also going to get tests to establish my baseline DHT before starting on 0.025 fin daily.


Appointments not for a few weeks and will be expensive as fu€k so I want to get my monies worth!

If there was ever anything you wanted to know specifically about finasteride, DHT, side effects or anything else write it in the comments and ill ask for you.

Will post answers here.

[Cob984]

I'm also going to get tests to establish my baseline DHT before starting on 0.025 fin daily.

you mean 0.25? how can you cut a fin pill into 0.025?

[Assemblage23]

Does this pfs thing makes sense? Which purpose dht serves in your body. The role of hormones in sex drive

[mpb47]

Why do hormones decline with age, yet more and more men start going bald?

[UK_]

Are we nothing but manifestations of our own actions?

[drybone]

Why do hormones decline with age, yet more and more men start going bald?

They dont. Its not like we have full heads of hair and then all of a sudden at age 40 our hair falls out.

At age 18 to 20 we start pumping out so much testosterone that it combines into a hormone called DHT that starts to wreck our hair follicles. I still cannot wrap my head around how it falls out in a PATTERN that falls into all kinds of Norwood categories.

It all depends on how resistant our hair is to DHT . Almost all of us have resistant hair on the sides and back. Again a total mystery as to why.

Since we have like 40,000 hairs on the top of our head, or 30 or 20 I dont know the number, burning out follicles is not noticable.

We burn out 1/2 of them before we even notice it in the mirror. In my case I was about 28 when i noticed it was not as thick as it was before. It takes 50% loss before we even notice.

So by 35 or so, I was having to keep it a certain length, and style it a certain way . By 42 it now was becoming obvious in the front I was thinning.

This is my guess as to why we only notice 'older' guys going bald. Fact is we were going bald the whole time.

[Dan26]

They dont. Its not like we have full heads of hair and then all of a sudden at age 40 our hair falls out.

At age 18 to 20 we start pumping out so much testosterone that it combines into a hormone called DHT that starts to wreck our hair follicles. I still cannot wrap my head around how it falls out in a PATTERN that falls into all kinds of Norwood categories.

It all depends on how resistant our hair is to DHT . Almost all of us have resistant hair on the sides and back. Again a total mystery as to why.

Since we have like 40,000 hairs on the top of our head, or 30 or 20 I dont know the number, burning out follicles is not noticable.

We burn out 1/2 of them before we even notice it in the mirror. In my case I was about 28 when i noticed it was not as thick as it was before. It takes 50% loss before we even notice.

So by 35 or so, I was having to keep it a certain length, and style it a certain way . By 42 it now was becoming obvious in the front I was thinning.

This is my guess as to why we only notice 'older' guys going bald. Fact is we were going bald the whole time.

Bald gene = at some point and time depending on variation androgen receptors appear on certain hair follicles, DHT negatively effects them...ONE of the driving forces of hair loss, though there are many more causes....Growth factors in scalp deplete more in MPB dudes, more inflammation including high levels of dermal facotrs ie things like pdg2...bunch of other crud happens too!

[drybone]

Bald gene = at some point and time depending on variation androgen receptors appear on certain hair follicles, DHT negatively effects them...ONE of the driving forces of hair loss, though there are many more causes....Growth factors in scalp deplete more in MPB dudes, more inflammation including high levels of dermal facotrs ie things like pdg2...bunch of other crud happens too!

The information I have that all the other factors such as diet and stress are not a very big part of hair loss. It would have to be pretty severe and ongoing.

Other things I read like shampoo build up etc are all valid points but again need to be severe cases .

The average guy who is losing his hair is overwhelmingly due to MPS which is caused chiefly by DHT.

[Dan26]

The information I have that all the other factors such as diet and stress are not a very big part of hair loss. It would have to be pretty severe and ongoing.

Other things I read like shampoo build up etc are all valid points but again need to be severe cases .

The average guy who is losing his hair is overwhelmingly due to MPS which is caused chiefly by DHT.

DHT is more of a driving force then it is a cause...If your scalp had sufficient levels of growth factors, and those levels were maintained, you could have all the DHT in your body you want, and your hair would not go anywhere. The androgen/DHT issue is very misconstrued by the general hair loss community. In reality though, something like Histogen combined with an AA (be it topical or internal) would be a great course of action. CB would be my choice of AA due to impeccable safety profile and the fact it address inflammation as well...

[Ball D]

you mean 0.25? how can you cut a fin pill into 0.025?

Nah I mean 0.025 I got sides with .1mg dose, not everyone needs to inhibit their DHT by up to 70% which is what normal doses of fin inhibit so I am trying to find my own personal sweet spot where fin inhibits 20-30 percent of DHT and therefore I only have 20-30 percent of the sides. I feel that fin is necessary to win this hairloss fight but for me, not at such a strong dose.

I got the idea for this here: http://www.hairlossbuddha.com/finast...o-reduce-them/

In the comments of this the author of the article says he still had the same regrowth and sides as he did on the higher amounts as he did when he was taking 0.05 so I am going for an even lower dose than that to find an amount of fin that I can actually tolerate.

The link explains how to separate the dosages at such small quantities. Basically you dissolve the fin in ethanol and all you have to know is the concentration.

[BigThinker]

Nah I mean 0.025 I got sides with .1mg dose, not everyone needs to inhibit their DHT by up to 70% which is what normal doses of fin inhibit so I am trying to find my own personal sweet spot where fin inhibits 20-30 percent of DHT and therefore I only have 20-30 percent of the sides. I feel that fin is necessary to win this hairloss fight but for me, not at such a strong dose.

I got the idea for this here: http://www.hairlossbuddha.com/finast...o-reduce-them/

In the comments of this the author of the article says he still had the same regrowth and sides as he did on the higher amounts as he did when he was taking 0.05 so I am going for an even lower dose than that to find an amount of fin that I can actually tolerate.

The link explains how to separate the dosages at such small quantities. Basically you dissolve the fin in ethanol and all you have to know is the concentration.

Dang, that's wild. Either way, let us know how that super low dose works for you.

I've ordered the 5mg pills, so getting them cut any smaller than 0.625 (8ths) is going to nearly impossible I bet.

That's why I've toyed with the idea of parachuting super low doses. A crushed 5 mg pill accurately measured at say 20ths is still 0.25 mg. If I take that EOD, I'm looking at like 40 days of super low dose fin tapering for like a dollar. Shit, now that I really think about it, my pill will probably expire before I even get to them.

[mpb47]

They dont. Its not like we have full heads of hair and then all of a sudden at age 40 our hair falls out.

At age 18 to 20 we start pumping out so much testosterone that it combines into a hormone called DHT that starts to wreck our hair follicles. I still cannot wrap my head around how it falls out in a PATTERN that falls into all kinds of Norwood categories.

It all depends on how resistant our hair is to DHT . Almost all of us have resistant hair on the sides and back. Again a total mystery as to why.

Since we have like 40,000 hairs on the top of our head, or 30 or 20 I dont know the number, burning out follicles is not noticable.

We burn out 1/2 of them before we even notice it in the mirror. In my case I was about 28 when i noticed it was not as thick as it was before. It takes 50% loss before we even notice.

So by 35 or so, I was having to keep it a certain length, and style it a certain way . By 42 it now was becoming obvious in the front I was thinning.

This is my guess as to why we only notice 'older' guys going bald. Fact is we were going bald the whole time.

They don't as in hormones don't decline or that more men start going bald with age?

I basically had nothing but a mature hairline till I was pushing 40 then starting getting the vertex spot in the back. Have a friend I have mentioned before that had near brad pitt hair and it starting going fast right age 40.

But that is all subjective..read some journal articles and you will find the % of men affected increases with age. Articles I read years ago said it was linear with age...ie 50% had it by 50. But more recent studies suggest that at least at older ages, it increases...ie at 70 about 85%+ have it.

If hormones decline with age, this doesn't make any sense -hence my question.

[drybone]

They don't as in hormones don't decline or that more men start going bald with age?

I basically had nothing but a mature hairline till I was pushing 40 then starting getting the vertex spot in the back. Have a friend I have mentioned before that had near brad pitt hair and it starting going fast right age 40.

But that is all subjective..read some journal articles and you will find the % of men affected increases with age. Articles I read years ago said it was linear with age...ie 50% had it by 50. But more recent studies suggest that at least at older ages, it increases...ie at 70 about 85%+ have it.

If hormones decline with age, this doesn't make any sense -hence my question.

Can you show me the source where male pattern baldness , thus the DHT damage , doesnt START until you are 35 or 40 years old?

I would appreciate if you could find the article(s) .

[mpb47]

Can you show me the source where male pattern baldness , thus the DHT damage , doesnt START until you are 35 or 40 years old?

I would appreciate if you could find the article(s) .

Sure here is one for starters:

Male androgenetic alopecia -Rodney D. Sinclair ,MD
JMHG Vol. 1, No. 4, pp. 319–327, December 2004


well recognized as is racial variation in the
prevalence of balding [1,2]. Genetic factors
modify the magnitude of the hair follicle
response to circulating androgens. Those with
a strong predisposition bald in their teens, and
those with a weak predisposition may not bald
until they are in their 60s or 70s. Fewer than
15% of men have little or no baldness by the
age of 70 "

And I know you didn't ask, but he also talks about how mpb is considered a secondary trait:

"Androgenetic alopecia, also known as com-
mon baldness, hereditary baldness and andro-
genic alopecia is the most common cause of
hair loss in men. It is distinctive due to the
pattern of progression of the scalp hair loss.
Genetically predisposed men initially develop
bitemporal recession. Next they develop dif-
fuse frontal loss and thereafter a bald patch
over the vertex of the scalp. Ultimately all the
hair over the crown is lost. The pathogenesis
involves androgen-induced miniaturisation of
terminal hairs into vellus hairs in affected
regions of the scalp. Some degree of follicular
miniaturisation and consequential hair loss is
universal and is considered to be a physiologi-
cal secondary sexual characteristic. "

This sounds like he is talking about the mature hairline and/or mpb
And to add weight to that, here is what he says in another article:


The transition of some terminal hairs into vellus
hairs is a universal physiological secondary sexual
characteristic. 1 Androgenetic alopecia becomes a
medical problem only when the hair loss is subjectively
seen as excessive, premature, and distressing.
The prerequisites for premature androgenetic alo*
pecia are a genetic predisposition and sufficient circu*
lating androgens. 2 Eunuchs do not go bald. 3 Every
white man possesses the autosomal inherited predis*
position, 4 and 96% lose hair to some degree, 5 but
because of the variabity of gene expression far fewer
have appreciable premature hair loss."


To me this says it can start early or late, but nearly all white males lose their hair at some point.

That article was from BMJ VOLUME 317 26 SEPTEMBER 1998 www.bmj.com

Dr. Sinclair publishes frequently. He was also one of the Docs that proved MPB doesn't stop and progresses over time. Mereck had to have this proof to make some of the claims they do. One of their ad's say something like: without treatment your mphl will most likely continue, and your bald spot will most likely continue to expand. Yes they had to do studies to say that, I guess because of the FDA. If you like this kind of information , read some of his articles.

[drybone]

Ok. The article you put up doesnt say they START losing hair at age 40

I have very SLOW MPS and I wont bald until I am 70 either. What you are thinking is that I dont have MPS , but I can tell you for a fact , you dont notice MPS until you have lost 50% of your density .

There are a ton of guys who walk around looking the SAME for decades then one day they notice they are thinning out. That process started when they were 20.

Male pattern baldness is a process of burning out your hair follicles , caused by testosterone.

Show me an article where the doc says the DHT that causes MPS in men somehow is delayed until they are 35 or 40 ?????

The articles you put up do not say that in the slightest.