Propecia and ED

[philippe]

I've been on Propecia now for 14 months--lowered my dosage at the half year mark to .05mg because my libido was non existent and I was having difficulty getting and maintaining an erection.

While I can get an erection, it is (for a lack of a better word) no where near as "hard" as it was before beginning Propecia. I am not looking to start a war of side effects vs no side effects. I can only speak for myself and my experience, and as someone who knows his body well I absolutely believe Propecia is the cause.

So, the good news is I can still get an erection--the bad news is it's barely getting the job done with my girlfriend and this is just not normal for a fit 30 year old who never had prior issues in this department. I am not opposed, at this point, to quitting Propecia. What I was hoping to hear from some of you is what (if any) my options are at getting my erections back (vitamins, supplements, etc) and how should I taper off of Propecia?

Also, any other Propecia users out there in this boat, i.e., still getting an erection but it being pretty soft and lackluster??

[SoothSayer]

Did you mean to say you had cut the dose to 0.5mg (50% of the recommended dose). If you are 0.05mg you are already at such a minimal level that you probably couldn't taper off any more gradually.

[philippe]

hi soothsayer, thanks for your reply--yes, i have been on 0.5mg for a little more than half a year now. i am already in the process of taking that every couple of days at this point. i have heard many different opinions about finasteride's half life in the body and its lingering effects to the body--i happen to think that men's tolerance to inhibiting dht varies across the board as some men have less dht in their systems to begin with, but have a higher sensitivity to it. my point being that i think 0.5mg for me was quite a lot.


i have to say i am disappointed to see that, at present, 65 people have read this post and only one has replied. this site is not for voyeurs--this site is a tool for those of us with real issues to be able to exchange information. if you have suffered side effects please share that and please share exactly what they were and if they persisted even when/if you quit Propecia. the more we each know about what others have experienced on finasteride, the better each one of us can make educated decisions about taking this drug and how to help our bodies if they react in the form of sexual side effects.

[deep84]

Hey Philippe, I've been taking proscar for only three weeks now so I can't say I'm in the same boat but I was told by my prescribing physician that if side effects do occur, it's best to try to wait them out for six weeks as for many people they go away in that time period. 0.5Mg seems like such a small dose already I don't think there is room to taper off.

[FlightTL]

I think I suffered some sides from Rogaine...sounds crazy I know, but then I started reading forums on 5% minox, and others say the same...I guess minox somehow also reduces body dht too.

[SoothSayer]

The truth is that modern science does not yet know too much about finasteride-induced side effects. Most men see the side effects, decide they would rather keep their sexuality than their hair, and quit immediately. It might make sense to taper off to avoid inducing too much change in your body very quickly but we don't know if this is actually helpful.

The good news is that since you haven't stopped taking the drug, the lingering side effects may be caused by your continued usage. For most men (we do not know exactly what percent) the side effects disappear upon discontinuation.

My advice to you is to taper off as quickly as you feel comfortable and not get too worried since you will probably be OK. At a certain point, it gets difficult to cut the pill into smaller and smaller pieces.

Good luck.

[philippe]

i agree that there is too little info out there about what finasteride and continued dht suppression does to the body long term and whether the side effects are irreversible or not. i will continue taking .05mg every couple of days for another month before stopping altogether.

on another note, anyone reading this have any tips about how to get the libido/erections back to normal through natural herbs/supplements, etc??

[UK_]

i agree that there is too little info out there about what finasteride and continued dht suppression does to the body long term and whether the side effects are irreversible or not. i will continue taking .05mg every couple of days for another month before stopping altogether.

on another note, anyone reading this have any tips about how to get the libido/erections back to normal through natural herbs/supplements, etc??

That's true, but there's enough information out there now for people to know that DHT is a very important hormone when it comes to sexual function, the problem is that 5AR is engaged in the management of a number of neurosteroids, which are incredibly important, the job of 5AR extends not only to the conversion of test to DHT.

DHT-5 is also engaged in the nitric-oxide mediated penile erection, there are several studies that have shown long term persistent damage to erectile tissue through the deprivation of androgens (specifically DHT-5 in most cases) that have failed to reverse in rat model.

I would never touch this drug, I think this will go down the same road as Accutane, which is also a 5AR inhibitor, dont just visit propeciahelp, also visit the Accutane forums and see the thousands that have failed to recover.

[scout88]

Hi Phillipe, Im in a very similar position. Have been on propecia for the last 7 months or so and while i can still get an erection it is no where near how it used to be. Iv just tapered down to 0.5mg so Im going to see how that goes for a while. Id like to stay on propecia if i can so im going to experiment with some natural herbal medications to see if any help whilst using the drug. iv heard people have experienced success with the like of tribulus and arginine, but who knows.
Otherwise I guess eventually il have to give up on the drug, and pray the effects aren't permanent! Let me know how you get on.

[UK_]

I hope this extract answers to the 'herbs and supplements' required for restoration:

Androgens are essential for the expression of normal libido in the male, but their role in the maintenance of the erectile response in humans is controversial. It has been shown previously in the rat that castration induces 1) loss of penile reflexes; and 2) considerable reduction in the erectile response to electric field stimulation (EFS) of the cavernosal nerve. Both of these effects can be reversed by testosterone replacement. The current study was performed to determine whether these testosterone effects are mediated via its conversion to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and to what extent the synthesis of the mediator of penile erection, nitric oxide, is affected by castration and androgen replacement. Five-month-old rats were either castrated or left intact. The orchiectomized rats were implanted with SILASTIC brand silicon tubing (Dow Corning) containing testosterone or DHT with or without daily injections of the 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor finasteride. After 7 days, rats were submitted to EFS and the intracavernosal pressure was recorded. Castration reduced the EFS-induced erectile response by 50% in comparison with intact rats and testosterone restored this decrease to normal. When finasteride was given to these testosterone-treated castrate rats, erectile response was not restored. DHT was as effective as testosterone in restoring response to EFS in castrates and this effect was not decreased by finasteride. Nitric oxide synthase activity in the penile cytosol was measured by the arginine-citrulline conversion and was found to correlate with the EFS determinations. These results show that DHT is the active androgen in the prevention of erectile failure seen in castrated rats, and suggest that this effect may be mediated, at least partially, by changes in nitric oxide synthase levels in the penis.

From the little research there is in this area, it seems DHT is the only way to help repair the damage done through androgen deprivation.

ZINC may be a good method of increasing DHT/Androgens, there are studies that show in high doses it acts as a mild 5AR inhibitor, but these effects are negated due to its ability to upregulate a wide variety of androgens.

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/01485018109009378

[Dan26]

Hey dude, first of all sorry that my reply may not be useful to you, but something you said sparked a question for me, and maybe someone here can help answer it.

You said,

"i happen to think that men's tolerance to inhibiting dht varies across the board as some men have less dht in their systems to begin with, but have a higher sensitivity to it. my point being that i think 0.5mg for me was quite a lot."

Is this something a doctor can test for? Are there good candidates and bad candidates for Propecia?

Sorry again that I am not really contributing, but the way the body/hormones/genes work really sparks a lot of interest and questions for me. I noticed my facial hair starting to come in a bit better soon after i noticed i am losing my hair. Also noticed in the last year or so I pee extremely frequently. Just wierd how the body works. Also my bro started balding the exact same time as me, yet he had a full beardway before he startin balding (i dont have close to what he does), and is generally more hairy, yet im more muscular. It's messed man! I don't understand! Do these doctors even have a clue! Sorry im goin off here lol, I sincerely hope your health and situation improves.

Hopefully the future is bright with some of these bio-tecnology companies. I way rather be noticable bald and get "the cure" when it comes out, then mess with my hormones and risk my health, while holding on to some hair that will eventually fall out and need to be repaired/replaced anyway.

[philippe]

hey dan, while i am no expert, yes, the amount of dht in the male body, as well as the body's tolerance to dht, varies. an endocrinologist would be the doctor to speak to with regards to getting your hormone levels checked.

[philippe]

I hope this extract answers to the 'herbs and supplements' required for restoration:



From the little research there is in this area, it seems DHT is the only way to help repair the damage done through androgen deprivation.

ZINC may be a good method of increasing DHT/Androgens, there are studies that show in high doses it acts as a mild 5AR inhibitor, but these effects are negated due to its ability to upregulate a wide variety of androgens.

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs...85018109009378

hey uk, thanks for the info--it does not say, however, what dosage of zinc is necessary to get things moving in the right direction?

[25 going on 65]

DHT-5 is also engaged in the nitric-oxide mediated penile erection, there are several studies that have shown long term persistent damage to erectile tissue through the deprivation of androgens (specifically DHT-5 in most cases) that have failed to reverse in rat model.

I have read two of these studies and while they are definitely useful, I would be cautious about extrapolating the results to humans taking prescribed doses of finasteride for these reasons:
-Rats given finasteride were given obscenely high doses, literally between 60 and 10's of 1000's of times the amount per kg body weight that humans take for hair loss. If any of us was to take, eg, 2,000 Propecia tablets every day, there is no telling how extreme the side effects would be.
-Rats which were castrated still showed significantly greater changes in penile tissue than those that were taking many times more finasteride per kg body weight than what we take for hair loss. So even "suicide doses" of fin weren't able to approximate the tissue changes that rats endure from castration.
-The final point is that these are rats and not people, which in some clinical studies is irrelevant but not in others (in terms of whether the results apply to humans). We're not sure if humans would respond the same way, or to the same extent, even on these insane fin doses.

I am convinced PFS is real for a small # of guys, but I would just be careful about assuming that what we see in rats taking the equivalent of 60-10k Propecia daily, applies also to humans taking 1 Propecia daily. It potentially might even lead us down an unhelpful road in trying to understand and treat PFS.

[philippe]

25 going on 65, i appreciate your input but i started this thread as a means to find solutions for combatting e.d. post finasteride use. i was on finasteride for 14 months and in that time i KNOW i suffered from e.d.--how severe or permanent is yet to be determined. i use the scientific method when taking any medication, i.e. i keep a close monitor on my body, and i don't manifest side effects where there are none. i am an athlete and have kept my body in tip top shape as well as my diet. it is not, in my case, a coincidence that i now have e.d. after taking finasteride for 14 months.

what i, and many men, need now is guidance with combatting and hopefully reversing these side effects in a natural way, i.e., herbs, supplements, etc, etc.