The scalp inflammation/itchy/burning/tingling thread

[Ziggyz123]

Hey Dench,
Yeah I've read that post of vitamin A. However, literally everything causes Hairloss lol. It's a messed up world. I thought the same thing as you though. I'd wake up and wonder what it would be like if my scalp were numb. However, my scalp pain went away after 5months. I think I'm going to drop finasteride today cold turkey. I just realized i have been on it for 20 months without improving and I read a study that stated that men that did not receive good results by 12 months, did not receive any results by the end of the trial.

It's just hard to think that we are non responders. There are no options after fin so we are lost man. Sucks. But, everything you describe, I had. If shower and it would hurt after even with no oil on my scalp. It literally just started to dosappear one day so there is hope. Hopefully, the loss stops man. Mine receded SOOO far back. Almost like a new part formed on my head.

I don't expect to regrow after quitting fin, I just hope my hair doesn't thin anymore than it has. Hopefully we both stabilize soon because the only saving grace I have is a hair transplant.

[Dench57]

Hey Dench,
Yeah I've read that post of vitamin A. However, literally everything causes Hairloss lol. It's a messed up world. I thought the same thing as you though. I'd wake up and wonder what it would be like if my scalp were numb. However, my scalp pain went away after 5months. I think I'm going to drop finasteride today cold turkey. I just realized i have been on it for 20 months without improving and I read a study that stated that men that did not receive good results by 12 months, did not receive any results by the end of the trial.

It's just hard to think that we are non responders. There are no options after fin so we are lost man. Sucks. But, everything you describe, I had. If shower and it would hurt after even with no oil on my scalp. It literally just started to dosappear one day so there is hope. Hopefully, the loss stops man. Mine receded SOOO far back. Almost like a new part formed on my head.

I don't expect to regrow after quitting fin, I just hope my hair doesn't thin anymore than it has. Hopefully we both stabilize soon because the only saving grace I have is a hair transplant.

That's whats so annoying, that every treatment comes with a slight chance of making your hair worse than if you hadn't done anything. I can say with absolutely certainty Fin has ****ed my hair up, possibly permanently. I would loved to have been a 'non-responder' but it actively made my hair worse rather that no change at all.

Thank you for the words of support man, I have to just keep believing that it will resolve itself eventually. When I see people saying they had it for years it makes me so depressed, I can't even comprehend having this for that long.

I definitely think you're making the right choice in dropping Fin, good for you. Comes a point when you have to accept it isn't helping you, I know that sucks because like you said, it's by far the best treatment we have.

The whole patch above my right temple, which has been constantly burning for 7 months now, is so frizzy and brittle and thin, and you can start to see the scalp even in normal light. Within a year that whole spot will be slick bald at this rate. Makes me so angry to think how great my hair would look now without Fin, I could/should've gone at least a few more years before treating it. Just got sucked up into thinking I had nothing to lose by trying Fin. Anyway I'm going to see the dermatologist on Wednesday so will let you know how that goes.

[Dench57]

I thought the same thing as you though. I'd wake up and wonder what it would be like if my scalp were numb. However, my scalp pain went away after 5months..

Well it's been 8 months in total now and 5 months since stopping Fin, but obviously we're different because you were still on Fin the whole time right? Did it gradually go away or did you just wake up without it one day?

I'm surprised I still have any hair on my head given the intensity of the burn, just goes to show how fine I would've been for years without accelerating it like this.

[mic28]

Do you know what in your regime stopped the itching Ziggy? And are you still deteriorating even without the itching?

Guys i am also thinking of stopping but will taper it down. Just afraid of giving up on my only real cure, but if it's not working then why should I continue. Il keep up the tacrilomus and lower dose of finasteride for a couple of weeks but this diffuse thinning and loss over my scalp is depressing!

[Dench57]

Just bought some keto cream. Will try applying it at night for a little while and see if it helps with the burn/itch and let you know. I'm sure it will be a bitch to apply and will probably increase shedding though.

[Ziggyz123]

Hey guys, I still get some itching here and there, but I stopped minoxidil back in December so that could have contributed to it. However, I was still in pain and had itching for like four months after I stopped it.. I used tea tree oil after nothing else would work and it somewhat calmed it down.

I have a theory about what may be apart of this whole reflex ordeal. Ok, so when I started fin, I experienced every single side effect throughout the first year.. 3 months in I had crazy loss of libido to the point where I could even feel my dick for like a week. I had brain fog and lethargy pretty much the whole time, but then summer came and coffee got me over that. Felt good for a while, started working out, but hurt my shoulder two months in and had to quit. Fast forward, to November which was the one year mark I started getting these like shooting pains that would last for a couple seconds and then stop. I'd get like 1-2 a day. This happened for about 3 days and then I went to style my hair in the morning and noticed I could see my scalp behind my hairline.. There were just short spiky hair there. The next day, I showered and lost BUTT LOADS OF HAIR. I mean like 150+ which never happened ever to me. Everything was irritating my scalp after that, every single shampoo, anything.

Anyway, my theory is that we experience sides and what not because the body has a new imbalance. Then, you start to slowly overcome these sides. And for some the body just levels out normally, but for us the body overshot. Finally, your body over shot and now your producing the amount of hormones that your body needs to create DHT, however taking fin still blocks most so we are stuck with either a shit ton of testosterone or our hormones are now permenantly off balance because they found a different pathway to overcome the suppression. Either way, I think that we overcame finasteride and now our body's are producing the amount of testosterone we need to convert into the amount of DHT we had before fin. Fin doesn't block all of that conversion anyway.

I need to get a hormone test done just like both of you guys. But, then what? My hair is f***** lol. Do I chance dutasteride and having an even worse reflex or quit and letting my hair take a hit still by letting all the DHT back. It's really a no win. But you guys understand that. The only possibility I can see is taking oral spiro with finasteride. That would pretty much beat out the increased test.

[Dench57]

Propecia has completely ****ed us up man. Sitting in my bedroom right now, with a burning, itching scalp along my hairline. Wondering what kind of cruel ****ing joke it is that I took a little hairloss pill hoping to just slow my MPB, and instead it's permanently accelerated my balding and I'll probably have to live with this burning itch for years as a reminder of my stupidity and bad luck. I'm 25, my 20s were going to be the best years of my life..I had so many plans, it was all going so well until this. I try not think about life before Fin because it hurts too much. I just took normal hair/scalp for granted. Not that there's much point but I might post some pics to show the damage that's been done, especially in the worst area around my right temple.

I think me and you are in slightly different positions Ziggy, being that you've been on Fin for so long, and are still on it, when I was on it for just 3 months, and quit 5 months ago. So I hope whatever you're experiencing will resolve itself after stopping. Certainly most people with reflex-hyper recover within a month of stopping from what I've read. If you're desperate to fix your hair I'm sure you can find the right vehicle for RU, it's really the only option after Fin/Dut.

I'm not sure if it's anything to do with increased androgen production. You're still on Fin, so there's obviously no way you're gonna be producing more DHT. What I think is happening is the Fin has upregulated your androgen receptors so much, that the remaining DHT (20-30% of baseline) is now doing way more damage then pre-Fin. And I'm sure increased Test probably plays some part as well. I don't think Fin can permanently increase androgens, what it can do is permanently increase your sensitivity to androgens, which is what causes MPB in the first place. Definitely get your blood levels checked but I'll be surprised if they show anything out of the ordinary. Maybe an increase in Test....if thats the case then I think taking Dut is probably the worst thing you can do, it's just an even stronger 5AR inhibitor, and will boost your Test even more. Any adverse effects you're experiencing with Fin will be 3-4x worse on Dut, it's exactly the same mechanism afaik. It also inhibits Type 1 (Fin just inhibits Type 2) which is linked to important brain functions, could be serious long term problems. And you know how many stories there are of "Dut destroyed my hairline", me and you know too well from our experience that shit would happen to us.

After my experience with Fin I'm really, really reluctant to take anything like oral Spiro which flat-out suppresses Testosterone, the most important androgen that makes a man a man. I really just want it to resolve itself naturally. I've been burnt badly enough by ****ing around with anti-androgens, and Spiro is a much more potent anti-androgen than Fin. But in moments of weakness, like right now when the itching is so bad, I say to myself "**** it, ANYTHING to make this stop" and would consider running the risk of gyno, weight gain, erectile dysfunction, fatigue, brain fog, dick shrinkage (all pretty likely on Spiro) just to make this stupid MPB itch stop. How ****ed up is that. How did it come to this?

[Ziggyz123]

Dench, I was just reading some more and read a lot on dutasteride. It also lead me to some studies and what not and one said that type 1dht is present in the sebum glands.. You said your scalp was oily so many you actually need dutasteride. Some genotype a don't respond at all to fin.

Another thing was, the doctor that did the biopsy test on men that took fin before/after and found increased AR also did a study that showed increased receptor levels in the front of the scalp. I actually don't think testosterone is the cause of this. Your body in fact could have made more receptors. I know that retin-A downregulates them over time, but when I saw my general doc she told me that people's hormones cycle differently and that some have a change every year. That would explain me and also, your body might downregulate them when your hormones cycle. Could be another 4 months. It definitely won't last forever.

Bad thing for me is I stayed on and now I could have even worse of a shed at 2 year mark. I think I may experiment and see lol. I already lost so much and get random shooting pains with hair loss in those spots. I actually might get a biopsy and test it again when I hit the two year mark. We need something that downregulates receptors quickly. You might respond extremely well to Ru, but of course that's experimental. This sucks. I'm developing like a new part that shows thinning all the way back to my spiral. It's like I'm developing an outline for guys that only keep the ring of hair around there heads. It's bull shit because my dad has a full head of hair and my brother had a receding hairline that I always tried to avoid getting and now mine is getting worse!

[jamesst11]

I have to keep saying, I feel you guys, because EVERY SINGLE THING you are saying is bringing back horrible memories of when I had telogen effluvium!! I know I have mentioned this before, but don't follow closely enough... Did you guys completely rule that out? The hair follicles are extremely susceptible to significant changes in the body... taking fin is a significant change. If it caused your hormone levels to drop significantly or raise significantly (in the cause of hyper) then this is a significant insult to your body. It often responds by shifting a larger percentage of your hair follicles into the resting state. You can read all you want about how it occurs 3-4 months after the inciting factor, and how it lasts for 6-10 months, or how it can be acute or chronic... but I don't believe it's always this simple and MY PERSONAL cases of TE show this.

[jamesst11]

Also, It may reassure you to know that the human body has an amazing capable to repair itself and return to homeostasis... YOU WILL NOT have burning and itching forever. YOU WILL NOT continue massive sheds forever. It's a horrible b*tch and I watched it destroy my hair, every day. Even though I have MPB on top of it, things gradually get better. With hair, it sucks, because it takes a LOT OF TIME!! Your hair is growing at the rate of 1/4-1/2 per month. New regrowth starts thinner and is hard to notice. Be patient. Let your body heal itself. The ONE THING that PERPETUATED my hair loss was stress and depression OVER HAIR LOSS!!

[Ziggyz123]

Yeah I definitely had TE, but now my hairline is screwed and I had to quit minox due to irritation so I have a double whammy there. Dench, you should try topical finasteride. James, saw you posted on Desmond's thread. I always thought topical fin didn't work? If it indeed does work, Dench this would help the both of us.

[Dench57]

Another thing was, the doctor that did the biopsy test on men that took fin before/after and found increased AR also did a study that showed increased receptor levels in the front of the scalp. I actually don't think testosterone is the cause of this. Your body in fact could have made more receptors. I know that retin-A downregulates them over time, but when I saw my general doc she told me that people's hormones cycle differently and that some have a change every year. That would explain me and also, your body might downregulate them when your hormones cycle. Could be another 4 months. It definitely won't last forever.

Bad thing for me is I stayed on and now I could have even worse of a shed at 2 year mark. I think I may experiment and see lol. I already lost so much and get random shooting pains with hair loss in those spots. I actually might get a biopsy and test it again when I hit the two year mark. We need something that downregulates receptors quickly. You might respond extremely well to Ru, but of course that's experimental. This sucks. I'm developing like a new part that shows thinning all the way back to my spiral. It's like I'm developing an outline for guys that only keep the ring of hair around there heads. It's bull shit because my dad has a full head of hair and my brother had a receding hairline that I always tried to avoid getting and now mine is getting worse!

Increased ARs in the scalp is definitely the culprit and the reason that many people actually get worse when they try Fin. Like you said, we need something to downregulate/degrade ARs in the scalp (Fluridil claims this but I call bullshit), but thats easier said than done. RU just blocks ARs and I've read it will just cause the same increased sensitivity for when you ever come off it. And it certainly doesn't look like something you can stay on forever.

I'm in the same boat with the receding man, it's gone so far past what it should've been at this stage. One of my friends has had a receding hairline for years, I remember looking at him and thinking how much worse his was than mine, now 6 months later I've overtaken him. All my relatives have exactly the same NW3 frontal recession in their 50s, but I'm going to surpass all of them within the next 5 years due to this.

[Dench57]

Yeah I definitely had TE, but now my hairline is screwed and I had to quit minox due to irritation so I have a double whammy there. Dench, you should try topical finasteride. James, saw you posted on Desmond's thread. I always thought topical fin didn't work? If it indeed does work, Dench this would help the both of us.

I can say I definitely haven't had TE. Never experienced a noticeable increase in shedding. I have no signs of redness, inflammation, sebum buildup, flakiness or dandruff, so it's just a mega "androgenetic itch" I have internally as DHT destroys my hair follicles.

As for topical finasteride, I was interested in Desmond's threat. But I wouldn't even know where to begin concocting that kind of formula, and as far as I'm aware topical Fin isn't very effective, otherwise surely it would be a mainstream topical along with Rogaine, for the millions of people who won't take oral Fin due to the sides? I'm sceptical as to why it's never taken off, there must be a reason. I'm also wondering if, like RU, by inhibiting DHT even locally I'd still get the same "upregulation" of androgen receptors, rendering the treatment useless, and harmful if I came off it, same as oral Fin.

[MancBoy]

along with itchy scalp do any of you guys get yellow puss spots in your hairline?

This itch is horrid but it is definitely related to my hairloss as it moves backwards with my hairline

[Dench57]

No, I have no physical signs of inflammation.

That sounds like it could be a fungal infection. Seb derm, folliculitis, demodex or something. Suggest you see your GP.