The scalp inflammation/itchy/burning/tingling thread

[mic28]

Hey Ziggy,

I haven't started oral minoxidil yet as I've only been prescribed 100 tablets at the moment of 0.5mg and I don't want to run out prior to seeing my dermatologist again. I will start in a couple of weeks.

As far as shedding is concerned, I have good and bad days. I'm seeing hair fall and getting some itching but not as bad as a month ago. Perhaps I was just going through a horrendous shed but maybe I'm just being hopeful. What I don't understand though is that I diffused so quickly, surely those hairs which fall out should miniaturise rather than completely fall out never to regrow?

Still unsure what to do with regards my finasteride dose. Still trying the 1.25mg every other day. Also started using tricolimus for the past week. Doesn't seem to be doing much except for maybe making my scalp itchier but I don't believe a week is long enough to assess.

[Ziggyz123]

Hey mic, I'm in the same spot pretty much. I think most of my shedding is from the cessation of minoxidil 6 months ago. I actually have a question for you.. Did you try oral minox yet? I'm really thinking of trying it to see if I can regrow some minox hair I lost. As for the scalp pain, I get random soreness once in a while but I'm living so that's a good thing. Besides that, how are you holding up?

[mic28]

How are you going Ziggy and Dench?

[Dench57]

No, I have no physical signs of inflammation.

That sounds like it could be a fungal infection. Seb derm, folliculitis, demodex or something. Suggest you see your GP.

[MancBoy]

along with itchy scalp do any of you guys get yellow puss spots in your hairline?

This itch is horrid but it is definitely related to my hairloss as it moves backwards with my hairline

[Dench57]

Yeah I definitely had TE, but now my hairline is screwed and I had to quit minox due to irritation so I have a double whammy there. Dench, you should try topical finasteride. James, saw you posted on Desmond's thread. I always thought topical fin didn't work? If it indeed does work, Dench this would help the both of us.

I can say I definitely haven't had TE. Never experienced a noticeable increase in shedding. I have no signs of redness, inflammation, sebum buildup, flakiness or dandruff, so it's just a mega "androgenetic itch" I have internally as DHT destroys my hair follicles.

As for topical finasteride, I was interested in Desmond's threat. But I wouldn't even know where to begin concocting that kind of formula, and as far as I'm aware topical Fin isn't very effective, otherwise surely it would be a mainstream topical along with Rogaine, for the millions of people who won't take oral Fin due to the sides? I'm sceptical as to why it's never taken off, there must be a reason. I'm also wondering if, like RU, by inhibiting DHT even locally I'd still get the same "upregulation" of androgen receptors, rendering the treatment useless, and harmful if I came off it, same as oral Fin.

[Dench57]

Another thing was, the doctor that did the biopsy test on men that took fin before/after and found increased AR also did a study that showed increased receptor levels in the front of the scalp. I actually don't think testosterone is the cause of this. Your body in fact could have made more receptors. I know that retin-A downregulates them over time, but when I saw my general doc she told me that people's hormones cycle differently and that some have a change every year. That would explain me and also, your body might downregulate them when your hormones cycle. Could be another 4 months. It definitely won't last forever.

Bad thing for me is I stayed on and now I could have even worse of a shed at 2 year mark. I think I may experiment and see lol. I already lost so much and get random shooting pains with hair loss in those spots. I actually might get a biopsy and test it again when I hit the two year mark. We need something that downregulates receptors quickly. You might respond extremely well to Ru, but of course that's experimental. This sucks. I'm developing like a new part that shows thinning all the way back to my spiral. It's like I'm developing an outline for guys that only keep the ring of hair around there heads. It's bull shit because my dad has a full head of hair and my brother had a receding hairline that I always tried to avoid getting and now mine is getting worse!

Increased ARs in the scalp is definitely the culprit and the reason that many people actually get worse when they try Fin. Like you said, we need something to downregulate/degrade ARs in the scalp (Fluridil claims this but I call bullshit), but thats easier said than done. RU just blocks ARs and I've read it will just cause the same increased sensitivity for when you ever come off it. And it certainly doesn't look like something you can stay on forever.

I'm in the same boat with the receding man, it's gone so far past what it should've been at this stage. One of my friends has had a receding hairline for years, I remember looking at him and thinking how much worse his was than mine, now 6 months later I've overtaken him. All my relatives have exactly the same NW3 frontal recession in their 50s, but I'm going to surpass all of them within the next 5 years due to this.

[Ziggyz123]

Yeah I definitely had TE, but now my hairline is screwed and I had to quit minox due to irritation so I have a double whammy there. Dench, you should try topical finasteride. James, saw you posted on Desmond's thread. I always thought topical fin didn't work? If it indeed does work, Dench this would help the both of us.

[jamesst11]

Also, It may reassure you to know that the human body has an amazing capable to repair itself and return to homeostasis... YOU WILL NOT have burning and itching forever. YOU WILL NOT continue massive sheds forever. It's a horrible b*tch and I watched it destroy my hair, every day. Even though I have MPB on top of it, things gradually get better. With hair, it sucks, because it takes a LOT OF TIME!! Your hair is growing at the rate of 1/4-1/2 per month. New regrowth starts thinner and is hard to notice. Be patient. Let your body heal itself. The ONE THING that PERPETUATED my hair loss was stress and depression OVER HAIR LOSS!!

[jamesst11]

I have to keep saying, I feel you guys, because EVERY SINGLE THING you are saying is bringing back horrible memories of when I had telogen effluvium!! I know I have mentioned this before, but don't follow closely enough... Did you guys completely rule that out? The hair follicles are extremely susceptible to significant changes in the body... taking fin is a significant change. If it caused your hormone levels to drop significantly or raise significantly (in the cause of hyper) then this is a significant insult to your body. It often responds by shifting a larger percentage of your hair follicles into the resting state. You can read all you want about how it occurs 3-4 months after the inciting factor, and how it lasts for 6-10 months, or how it can be acute or chronic... but I don't believe it's always this simple and MY PERSONAL cases of TE show this.

[Ziggyz123]

Dench, I was just reading some more and read a lot on dutasteride. It also lead me to some studies and what not and one said that type 1dht is present in the sebum glands.. You said your scalp was oily so many you actually need dutasteride. Some genotype a don't respond at all to fin.

Another thing was, the doctor that did the biopsy test on men that took fin before/after and found increased AR also did a study that showed increased receptor levels in the front of the scalp. I actually don't think testosterone is the cause of this. Your body in fact could have made more receptors. I know that retin-A downregulates them over time, but when I saw my general doc she told me that people's hormones cycle differently and that some have a change every year. That would explain me and also, your body might downregulate them when your hormones cycle. Could be another 4 months. It definitely won't last forever.

Bad thing for me is I stayed on and now I could have even worse of a shed at 2 year mark. I think I may experiment and see lol. I already lost so much and get random shooting pains with hair loss in those spots. I actually might get a biopsy and test it again when I hit the two year mark. We need something that downregulates receptors quickly. You might respond extremely well to Ru, but of course that's experimental. This sucks. I'm developing like a new part that shows thinning all the way back to my spiral. It's like I'm developing an outline for guys that only keep the ring of hair around there heads. It's bull shit because my dad has a full head of hair and my brother had a receding hairline that I always tried to avoid getting and now mine is getting worse!

[Dench57]

Propecia has completely ****ed us up man. Sitting in my bedroom right now, with a burning, itching scalp along my hairline. Wondering what kind of cruel ****ing joke it is that I took a little hairloss pill hoping to just slow my MPB, and instead it's permanently accelerated my balding and I'll probably have to live with this burning itch for years as a reminder of my stupidity and bad luck. I'm 25, my 20s were going to be the best years of my life..I had so many plans, it was all going so well until this. I try not think about life before Fin because it hurts too much. I just took normal hair/scalp for granted. Not that there's much point but I might post some pics to show the damage that's been done, especially in the worst area around my right temple.

I think me and you are in slightly different positions Ziggy, being that you've been on Fin for so long, and are still on it, when I was on it for just 3 months, and quit 5 months ago. So I hope whatever you're experiencing will resolve itself after stopping. Certainly most people with reflex-hyper recover within a month of stopping from what I've read. If you're desperate to fix your hair I'm sure you can find the right vehicle for RU, it's really the only option after Fin/Dut.

I'm not sure if it's anything to do with increased androgen production. You're still on Fin, so there's obviously no way you're gonna be producing more DHT. What I think is happening is the Fin has upregulated your androgen receptors so much, that the remaining DHT (20-30% of baseline) is now doing way more damage then pre-Fin. And I'm sure increased Test probably plays some part as well. I don't think Fin can permanently increase androgens, what it can do is permanently increase your sensitivity to androgens, which is what causes MPB in the first place. Definitely get your blood levels checked but I'll be surprised if they show anything out of the ordinary. Maybe an increase in Test....if thats the case then I think taking Dut is probably the worst thing you can do, it's just an even stronger 5AR inhibitor, and will boost your Test even more. Any adverse effects you're experiencing with Fin will be 3-4x worse on Dut, it's exactly the same mechanism afaik. It also inhibits Type 1 (Fin just inhibits Type 2) which is linked to important brain functions, could be serious long term problems. And you know how many stories there are of "Dut destroyed my hairline", me and you know too well from our experience that shit would happen to us.

After my experience with Fin I'm really, really reluctant to take anything like oral Spiro which flat-out suppresses Testosterone, the most important androgen that makes a man a man. I really just want it to resolve itself naturally. I've been burnt badly enough by ****ing around with anti-androgens, and Spiro is a much more potent anti-androgen than Fin. But in moments of weakness, like right now when the itching is so bad, I say to myself "**** it, ANYTHING to make this stop" and would consider running the risk of gyno, weight gain, erectile dysfunction, fatigue, brain fog, dick shrinkage (all pretty likely on Spiro) just to make this stupid MPB itch stop. How ****ed up is that. How did it come to this?

[Ziggyz123]

Hey guys, I still get some itching here and there, but I stopped minoxidil back in December so that could have contributed to it. However, I was still in pain and had itching for like four months after I stopped it.. I used tea tree oil after nothing else would work and it somewhat calmed it down.

I have a theory about what may be apart of this whole reflex ordeal. Ok, so when I started fin, I experienced every single side effect throughout the first year.. 3 months in I had crazy loss of libido to the point where I could even feel my dick for like a week. I had brain fog and lethargy pretty much the whole time, but then summer came and coffee got me over that. Felt good for a while, started working out, but hurt my shoulder two months in and had to quit. Fast forward, to November which was the one year mark I started getting these like shooting pains that would last for a couple seconds and then stop. I'd get like 1-2 a day. This happened for about 3 days and then I went to style my hair in the morning and noticed I could see my scalp behind my hairline.. There were just short spiky hair there. The next day, I showered and lost BUTT LOADS OF HAIR. I mean like 150+ which never happened ever to me. Everything was irritating my scalp after that, every single shampoo, anything.

Anyway, my theory is that we experience sides and what not because the body has a new imbalance. Then, you start to slowly overcome these sides. And for some the body just levels out normally, but for us the body overshot. Finally, your body over shot and now your producing the amount of hormones that your body needs to create DHT, however taking fin still blocks most so we are stuck with either a shit ton of testosterone or our hormones are now permenantly off balance because they found a different pathway to overcome the suppression. Either way, I think that we overcame finasteride and now our body's are producing the amount of testosterone we need to convert into the amount of DHT we had before fin. Fin doesn't block all of that conversion anyway.

I need to get a hormone test done just like both of you guys. But, then what? My hair is f***** lol. Do I chance dutasteride and having an even worse reflex or quit and letting my hair take a hit still by letting all the DHT back. It's really a no win. But you guys understand that. The only possibility I can see is taking oral spiro with finasteride. That would pretty much beat out the increased test.

[Dench57]

Just bought some keto cream. Will try applying it at night for a little while and see if it helps with the burn/itch and let you know. I'm sure it will be a bitch to apply and will probably increase shedding though.

[mic28]

Do you know what in your regime stopped the itching Ziggy? And are you still deteriorating even without the itching?

Guys i am also thinking of stopping but will taper it down. Just afraid of giving up on my only real cure, but if it's not working then why should I continue. Il keep up the tacrilomus and lower dose of finasteride for a couple of weeks but this diffuse thinning and loss over my scalp is depressing!