Going on propecia after Saw Palmetto

[JustWatchMe]

Greetings all, I'd like to reach out and ask for some opinions on my situtation.
I'm in my mid 20's. had a full head of long hair a year ago when I begun my battle with MPB. I've receded and thinned alot and at the start of the year I decided I was going to act.

At the srtart of the year I begun a blended stinging nettes, ho shu wu and a DHT blocker supplement (containing some SP) daily. Start of March saw no improvement , I started 300mg/day of Saw Palmetto. Start of May still no imrpovement so I upped my Saw Palmetto to 600mg a day with other supplements and washing every day with Regenepure DR and NT.

My hairloss is getting worse and photos from a year ago it's hard to believe it's struck so hard. Am I incorrect to guess that taking 600mg a day of SP without sides means that I am unlikely to have any sides with propecia? I've decided I'm going to begin it but at a half dose or take one every second day to try and easy my way in and lower the chance of unwanted sides. I'll also drop the SP back to only 150mg a day or completely remove it. I don't use any topicals currently.

I know there are a lot of experienced people on this awesome board and I'd be absolutely stoked if I could hear your opinions on my situation and any recommendations!

Thanks a lot for your time and any help!

[chrisis]

If you're gonna do it, I'd suggest exercising caution.

Try 0.25mg for as long as possible. If you're susceptible to side effects, they'd usually kick in after a couple months. If none after that long on 0.25mg, then up it to 0.5mg, and so on until you're at 1mg. The incremental benefit of each 0.25mg is marginal, so I really think this approach is sensible and I wonder why it isn't standard advice in these forums.

I'd also recommend taking a diary noting details about your libido every day on the drug to help you decide whether you're safe or not.

*speaking as someone who is still suffering from sides 4 months after taking it for just 2 months*

[PatientlyWaiting]

If you're gonna do it, I'd suggest exercising caution.

Try 0.25mg for as long as possible. If you're susceptible to side effects, they'd usually kick in after a couple months. If none after that long on 0.25mg, then up it to 0.5mg, and so on until you're at 1mg. The incremental benefit of each 0.25mg is marginal, so I really think this approach is sensible and I wonder why it isn't standard advice in these forums.

I'd also recommend taking a diary noting details about your libido every day on the drug to help you decide whether you're safe or not.

*speaking as someone who is still suffering from sides 4 months after taking it for just 2 months*

No, no, no, no, no and NO.

Start at 1MG a day first.

He's trying to stop hair loss, not just take a pill daily for fun. 0.25mg will do nothing. There are no studies of 0.25mg's effectiveness. A waste of money if some one does that.

If you're gonna do that, just don't get on it at all.

[chrisis]

PatientlyWaiting, Spex is a consultant for two senior transplant surgeons and recommends and takes finasteride himself, but encourages a similar approach to the drug as I've outlined.

Actually one of the doctors that Spex consults on behalf is actually very wary of the drug! I've spoken to him!

Please tell us your qualifications/experience which led you to forming your opinion? Who do you consult for?

JustWatchMe, you and only you have to deal with side effects if they hit you. Bear that in mind when people tell you to take it without being at least cautious.

[2020]

you're both wrong... 0.25 mg of fin blocks almost as much DHT as 5 mg:

[chrisis]

How does this make me wrong? If anything that suggests going up to 1mg is barely even necessary! I've even used that graph myself several times! /facepalm!!!!

In conclusion, JustWatchMe, start on 1.25mg, or even less if you can find a way.

And BE WARY of advice on these forums. Bottom line is a cautious approach is only in your interests. I don't see why anyone would risk things anymore than absolutely necessary.

[gutted]

No, no, no, no, no and NO.

Start at 1MG a day first.

He's trying to stop hair loss, not just take a pill daily for fun. 0.25mg will do nothing. There are no studies of 0.25mg's effectiveness. A waste of money if some one does that.

If you're gonna do that, just don't get on it at all.

start it like this...and you will almost certainly get sides! and lose hair doing so.

you should start slowly as outlined by chrisis.

[Bluefalcon109]

start it like this...and you will almost certainly get sides! and lose hair doing so.

you should start slowly as outlined by chrisis.

hey while you guys are bickering, i have a related question. why would anyone lose hair when they start using finasteride? like i dont get it, DHT causes hair loss ---> fin suppresses DHT ---> by suppressing the hormone that causes hair loss you create more hair loss..? i dont get it..?

[2020]

hey while you guys are bickering, i have a related question. why would anyone lose hair when they start using finasteride? like i dont get it, DHT causes hair loss ---> fin suppresses DHT ---> by suppressing the hormone that causes hair loss you create more hair loss..? i dont get it..?

that's true. Knocking out that much DHT is almost equivalent to castration so it should halt MPB permanently. Inhbiting 5AR is actually a dumb way to treat hair loss long term and if you were to stop taking fin you could possibly end up worse. The reason why hair loss eventually catches up with you is because your body starts upregulating by making your androgen receptors more sensitive.
This is also why side effects go away for majority of people because of such upregulation....

[gutted]

hey while you guys are bickering, i have a related question. why would anyone lose hair when they start using finasteride? like i dont get it, DHT causes hair loss ---> fin suppresses DHT ---> by suppressing the hormone that causes hair loss you create more hair loss..? i dont get it..?

its like what 2020 said in the last post, surpressing dht via 5ar inhibition eventually causes the body want to reach homestasis through reflex hyperandrogenecity.

how this is done, is possibly through upregulating AR sensivity of target cells and possibly upregulating 5 ar enzymes.

Its possible this process takes place in some individuals within 3/5 months to 10 years and is probably the reason why fin loses effectiveness over time, this can cause more damage to your hair than good if your unlucky and this process takes place within 3/5 months hence why it is best to slowly start on the drug.

Fin is best taken periodcally to help address the imbalance, rather than on a continuous basis for life - because merck were out for number 1 i.e profit they decided the drug should be taken for life, when this is not neccassary!

some info below on the process


What's reflex hyperandrogenicity?

A: When the effects of androgens in the body are lessened, e.g. through lowering DHT or by systemic hormone receptor blockade, the body seeks equilibrium through a process called upregulation. This can take the form of increased hormone production and/or increased tissue sensitivity to the remaining hormones. The reason side effects usually gradually disappear with finasteride is probably due to such upregulation. In a small percentage of individuals, it may be that this process overshoots the mark, resulting in significant hyperandrogenicity. This is marked by such signs as greatly increased facial oil, increased pimples, and greatly elevated libido. It's possible that in certain cases such hyperandrogenicity overcomes the hair-protective effect of, say, finasteride, though this does not appear to be the case for the vast majority of people.

[Mike93]

Gutted, do you take fin? If so how have you found it?

[gutted]

Gutted, do you take fin? If so how have you found it?

no, ive never taken it and dont intend to.

[mpb47]

The reason why hair loss eventually catches up with you is because your body starts upregulating by making your androgen receptors more sensitive.
...

Is this why older men with less T and DHT keep getting balder?

[mpb47]

its like what 2020 said in the last post, surpressing dht via 5ar inhibition eventually causes the body want to reach homestasis through reflex hyperandrogenecity.

how this is done, is possibly through upregulating AR sensivity of target cells and possibly upregulating 5 ar enzymes.

Its possible this process takes place in some individuals within 3/5 months to 10 years and is probably the reason why fin loses effectiveness over time, this can cause more damage to your hair than good if your unlucky and this process takes place within 3/5 months hence why it is best to slowly start on the drug.

Fin is best taken periodcally to help address the imbalance, rather than on a continuous basis for life - because merck were out for number 1 i.e profit they decided the drug should be taken for life, when this is not neccassary!


.

How often do you mean when you say periodcally? I saw one guy talking about once every 2 weeks but that was just for the first few months.

Hoping to find a magical sweet spot that will stop my loss without any sides.

[gutted]

How often do you mean when you say periodcally? I saw one guy talking about once every 2 weeks but that was just for the first few months.

Hoping to find a magical sweet spot that will stop my loss without any sides.

thats a good question...

everyone is different, and the dosage/frequency of treatment used by one person may not neccasarily be right for another.

i only suggest doing a very minor dose of fin for 3 months per year and then slowly getting off the drug towards the end of the 3months just to keep androgen levels in balance.

The people who experince an "advance" in hair loss NOT baldness (those hairs will regrow again) after stopping fin - is due to a temporary spike in the androgen levels after getting off fin and should not be confused with baldness.