19 with a hairline like this and thinning on top, any suggestions?

[k9gatton]

I wouldn't recommend the shampoo unless a fungal infection is the cause of your hair loss. The Biotin as a natural supplement is gold, though.

I would take Minoxidil + Biotin + Saw Palmetto to start off; hold off on the Finasteride unless you're really desperate, because those side effects can be really nasty.

Saw Palmetto isn't really known to lower DHT levels. That said, it might be questionable if it really
helps androgen related baldness.

[JeanlucBergman]

Saw Palmetto isn't really known to lower DHT levels. That said, it might be questionable if it really
helps androgen related baldness.

If someone couldn't put up with fin sides, would you recommend natural DHT blockers such as saw palmetto, beta sisosterol and pumpkin seed oil?

[Hairbrain]

"At this point, the only truly effective medically proven way to arrest the hair loss process is to lower DHT levels. The American Hair Loss Association recommends finasteride as the first line of attack for all men interested in treating their male pattern baldness." AHLA
This thread has discussed everything from pupmkin seed oil to limiting masturbation to slow down or reverse hairloss. Really? These topics have been discussed on hair loss sites for going on 20 years. No IAHRS recommened doctor would even discuss these topics including saw palmetto or just about anything else mentioned prior. What will they talk to you about? Minoxidil (some reluctantly so) Finasteride, possibly surgery given if your a canidate with reasonable expectatios, and often times just the plain possibility of acceptance. Thats it!
The world of science has attempted to treat or solve MPB for hundreds of years. If any any proposed dime store supplement you can get a months supply of from Amazon for eight dollars a month actually even helped it wouldn't be sold for eight dollars a month. I could only imagine what saw palmetto or pumpkin seed oil would actually be selling for.
Most men never experience any sides with fin. Actually most studies show less than 2%. The research is out there. Spencer Kobren has been taking it for 18 plus yrs, and many other well known advocates on this site have used it for well over a decade. I personally know 3 individuals including myself that has or is taking it and have never suffered any sides. Im not advocating it. Anyone should obviously speak with a doctor experienecd in hair loss, especially any IAHRS recommended doctor that knows the emperical data and the real options and solutions that actually can help.

[bmoreno299]

Hey k9gatton where do you get your topical progesterone at?

[JeanlucBergman]

"At this point, the only truly effective medically proven way to arrest the hair loss process is to lower DHT levels. The American Hair Loss Association recommends finasteride as the first line of attack for all men interested in treating their male pattern baldness." AHLA
This thread has discussed everything from pupmkin seed oil to limiting masturbation to slow down or reverse hairloss. Really? These topics have been discussed on hair loss sites for going on 20 years. No IAHRS recommened doctor would even discuss these topics including saw palmetto or just about anything else mentioned prior. What will they talk to you about? Minoxidil (some reluctantly so) Finasteride, possibly surgery given if your a canidate with reasonable expectatios, and often times just the plain possibility of acceptance. Thats it!
The world of science has attempted to treat or solve MPB for hundreds of years. If any any proposed dime store supplement you can get a months supply of from Amazon for eight dollars a month actually even helped it wouldn't be sold for eight dollars a month. I could only imagine what saw palmetto or pumpkin seed oil would actually be selling for.
Most men never experience any sides with fin. Actually most studies show less than 2%. The research is out there. Spencer Kobren has been taking it for 18 plus yrs, and many other well known advocates on this site have used it for well over a decade. I personally know 3 individuals including myself that has or is taking it and have never suffered any sides. Im not advocating it. Anyone should obviously speak with a doctor experienecd in hair loss, especially any IAHRS recommended doctor that knows the emperical data and the real options and solutions that actually can help.

"Most men never experience any sides with fin. Actually most studies show less than 2%. The research is out there. Spencer Kobren has been taking it for 18 plus yrs, and many other well known advocates on this site have used it for well over a decade. I personally know 3 individuals including myself that has or is taking it and have never suffered any sides. Im not advocating it. Anyone should obviously speak with a doctor experienecd in hair loss, especially any IAHRS recommended doctor that knows the emperical data and the real options and solutions that actually can help."

Nice outright lie you have there, over 50% of men do not use finasteride for more than a year. There are people on these forums who have used fin comfortably for multiple years, and suddenly get sexual sides that do not leave even after stopping. It's a potent drug that was ultimately meant for people with serious prostate issues where it was a matter of life or death. The science is clear that masturbation, unregulated sugar levels, and natural supplements such as saw palmetto and beta sisosterol have an effect on DHT greater than a placebo. You sound like a science denying moron when you reject them. Are you saying all the studies on saw palmetto where there is a noticeable decrease in DHT are made up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HFGYcoW6Mg

Are these results, including a regrown hairline on minox, natural DHT blockers and a keto shampoo made up? And what is with your doctor fetish? AHRS recommended doctors don't know any better than you or I, or any regular on these forums or someone who has read the studies knows.

You're incredibly irresponsible, and a science denier. I am not saying EVERYONE will experience good results on natural treatments, and of course fin is more effective than saw palmetto, but there are plenty on these forums who have shown visual evidence of MAINTAINED regrowth on keto, DHT blockers and minoxidil. I'm sorry that you won't accept anyone experiencing good results without frying their genitals like you have to yourself, but for your own benefit you'd do good to accept the science and evidence presented in various studies.

I'm not saying that fin should be rejected, simply that prior to starting a drug where the majority cannot last 12 months and often get permanent sides, they should try a method which has shown success and has scientific evidence supporting it, without the danger of fin. If he is one of the lucky ones who can regrow hairline and double density on minox, DHT blockers and keto while maintaining that for 5 years, why wouldn't he try? You're just bitter you ruined yourself with fin and don't want anyone to regrow hair without suffering the sides you have.

[Louish]

"Most men never experience any sides with fin. Actually most studies show less than 2%. The research is out there. Spencer Kobren has been taking it for 18 plus yrs, and many other well known advocates on this site have used it for well over a decade. I personally know 3 individuals including myself that has or is taking it and have never suffered any sides. Im not advocating it. Anyone should obviously speak with a doctor experienecd in hair loss, especially any IAHRS recommended doctor that knows the emperical data and the real options and solutions that actually can help."

Nice outright lie you have there, over 50% of men do not use finasteride for more than a year. There are people on these forums who have used fin comfortably for multiple years, and suddenly get sexual sides that do not leave even after stopping. It's a potent drug that was ultimately meant for people with serious prostate issues where it was a matter of life or death. The science is clear that masturbation, unregulated sugar levels, and natural supplements such as saw palmetto and beta sisosterol have an effect on DHT greater than a placebo. You sound like a science denying moron when you reject them. Are you saying all the studies on saw palmetto where there is a noticeable decrease in DHT are made up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HFGYcoW6Mg

Are these results, including a regrown hairline on minox, natural DHT blockers and a keto shampoo made up? And what is with your doctor fetish? AHRS recommended doctors don't know any better than you or I, or any regular on these forums or someone who has read the studies knows.

You're incredibly irresponsible, and a science denier. I am not saying EVERYONE will experience good results on natural treatments, and of course fin is more effective than saw palmetto, but there are plenty on these forums who have shown visual evidence of MAINTAINED regrowth on keto, DHT blockers and minoxidil. I'm sorry that you won't accept anyone experiencing good results without frying their genitals like you have to yourself, but for your own benefit you'd do good to accept the science and evidence presented in various studies.

I'm not saying that fin should be rejected, simply that prior to starting a drug where the majority cannot last 12 months and often get permanent sides, they should try a method which has shown success and has scientific evidence supporting it, without the danger of fin. If he is one of the lucky ones who can regrow hairline and double density on minox, DHT blockers and keto while maintaining that for 5 years, why wouldn't he try? You're just bitter you ruined yourself with fin and don't want anyone to regrow hair without suffering the sides you have.

I don't know if the claims behind saw palmetto ability to reduce DHT are accurate or not but let's assume they are. What is the logic behind thinking that lowering DHT with a "natural product" is better than with a synthetic one? Sides effects are from the insufficiency of the critical sex hormone DHT and not from the fact that fina is synthetic. If on the same person saw palmetto gives less side effect than fina it is only because fina is more potent at lowering DHT.

[JeanlucBergman]

I don't know if the claims behind saw palmetto ability to reduce DHT are accurate or not but let's assume they are. What is the logic behind thinking that lowering DHT with a "natural product" is better than with a synthetic one? Sides effects are from the insufficiency of the critical sex hormone DHT and not from the fact that fina is synthetic. If on the same person saw palmetto gives less side effect than fina it is only because fina is more potent at lowering DHT.

Of course, I couldn't handle even 0.25 mg because for whatever reason I am extremely sensitive to anti androgens. It made me paranoid, I couldn't get an erection, it made me feel like spontaneously crying and it made my balls hurt. I'm currently on saw palmetto, minox and Regenepure DR keto shampoo, and have while I don't feel like I have had any regrowth, I haven't gone backwards as of yet. I am also getting typical fin sides on saw palmetto, such as watery semen and a somewhat lowered libido (and no more random boners on the bus).

"If on the same person saw palmetto gives less side effect than fina it is only because fina is more potent at lowering DHT."

That is certainly true, but different people require different amounts of DHT to be blocked to result in healthy hair. It is why some people can use a full dose of fin and still go backwards while others such as here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HFGYcoW6Mg get good results with natural DHT blockers.

All I am arguing is that SOME people can stop hairloss through natural means, SOME people get permanent fin sides, and MOST people don't last 12 months on fin. With these options, it makes sense to make a genuine attempt for 6 months on a regime like a Lipogaine or HR23 multi vitamin along with beta sisosterol and saw palmetto, minoxidil and keto shampoo. For most people, including this guy, he is still going to have a very reasonable amount of hair and legitimate hairline in 6 months, even if the treatment did absolutely nothing. If natural means don't work, he can always make the move to fin.

[Louish]

Of course, I couldn't handle even 0.25 mg because for whatever reason I am extremely sensitive to anti androgens. It made me paranoid, I couldn't get an erection, it made me feel like spontaneously crying and it made my balls hurt. I'm currently on saw palmetto, minox and Regenepure DR keto shampoo, and have while I don't feel like I have had any regrowth, I haven't gone backwards as of yet. I am also getting typical fin sides on saw palmetto, such as watery semen and a somewhat lowered libido (and no more random boners on the bus).

"If on the same person saw palmetto gives less side effect than fina it is only because fina is more potent at lowering DHT."

That is certainly true, but different people require different amounts of DHT to be blocked to result in healthy hair. It is why some people can use a full dose of fin and still go backwards while others such as here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HFGYcoW6Mg get good results with natural DHT blockers.

All I am arguing is that SOME people can stop hairloss through natural means, SOME people get permanent fin sides, and MOST people don't last 12 months on fin. With these options, it makes sense to make a genuine attempt for 6 months on a regime like a Lipogaine or HR23 multi vitamin along with beta sisosterol and saw palmetto, minoxidil and keto shampoo. For most people, including this guy, he is still going to have a very reasonable amount of hair and legitimate hairline in 6 months, even if the treatment did absolutely nothing. If natural means don't work, he can always make the move to fin.

Agreed. As a biochemist I can tell you that altering your hormones for the sake of your hair is quite shortsighted and the consequences go far beyond observable side effects. Doctors prescribing fin have no idea what they are doing the same way they have no idea what they are doing prescribing tons of antidepressant. The sacrifice is quite similar yet opposite to bodybuilders and roids...(I am only on this forum because I had aHT)

[bmoreno299]

Hey jean is africanum pygeum good against dht? Can it make your hair worse?

[Hairbrain]

Of course, I couldn't handle even 0.25 mg because for whatever reason I am extremely sensitive to anti androgens. It made me paranoid, I couldn't get an erection, it made me feel like spontaneously crying and it made my balls hurt. I'm currently on saw palmetto, minox and Regenepure DR keto shampoo, and have while I don't feel like I have had any regrowth, I haven't gone backwards as of yet. I am also getting typical fin sides on saw palmetto, such as watery semen and a somewhat lowered libido (and no more random boners on the bus).

The emperical data shows the great vast majority of men have absolutely no sides with Finasteride. Can you provide some documentation that shows your claim that over 50% stay on it less than a year? Im not doubting it, its just I've seen lots of studies on fin but not this one. It may be true because many men may stop because of the cost, or the fact they dont see enough benefit etc...I dont doubt you did have a bad experience with it but don't deny the real data that exists showing that most men can and do benifit from its usage without issue. The very founder of this website and president of the American Hair Loss Association has used it for two decades, the two most world respected advocates on this site have also been on it for 15 plus years. I myself and two others I personally know have and continue to use it, no sides....... There is often discussions amoung Spencer Kobren and other approved doctors and patient advocates on TheBaldTruth broadcasts that center around the usage of Finasteride and its benefits to the millions who use it and have continued to use it for years. Are there sides? Yes there can be in a very small minority and they can be devastating and arguably supposedly in very rare cases irreversibleable. No one is denying that. But thankfully for the great vast majority there is an FDA approved and controlled subtance out there that is proven to work year after year.
I understand your frustration with not being able to handle it as it is evident in your posts. But as I quoted "The American Hair Loss Association recommends finasteride as the first line of attack for all men interested in treating their male pattern baldness."
Not pumpkin seed oils or changing your masturbation schedules or using anti danfruff shampoos.
If pumpkin seed oil and controlling ones urges to masterbate actually worked I'd be a monk living in a pumpkin patch.........just sayin

[bmoreno299]

hey hairbrain so does masterbation really raise dht levels?

[JeanlucBergman]

hey hairbrain so does masterbation really raise dht levels?

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/70/3/439.abstract

[JeanlucBergman]

The emperical data shows the great vast majority of men have absolutely no sides with Finasteride. Can you provide some documentation that shows your claim that over 50% stay on it less than a year? Im not doubting it, its just I've seen lots of studies on fin but not this one. It may be true because many men may stop because of the cost, or the fact they dont see enough benefit etc...I dont doubt you did have a bad experience with it but don't deny the real data that exists showing that most men can and do benifit from its usage without issue. The very founder of this website and president of the American Hair Loss Association has used it for two decades, the two most world respected advocates on this site have also been on it for 15 plus years. I myself and two others I personally know have and continue to use it, no sides....... There is often discussions amoung Spencer Kobren and other approved doctors and patient advocates on TheBaldTruth broadcasts that center around the usage of Finasteride and its benefits to the millions who use it and have continued to use it for years. Are there sides? Yes there can be in a very small minority and they can be devastating and arguably supposedly in very rare cases irreversibleable. No one is denying that. But thankfully for the great vast majority there is an FDA approved and controlled subtance out there that is proven to work year after year.
I understand your frustration with not being able to handle it as it is evident in your posts. But as I quoted "The American Hair Loss Association recommends finasteride as the first line of attack for all men interested in treating their male pattern baldness."
Not pumpkin seed oils or changing your masturbation schedules or using anti danfruff shampoos.
If pumpkin seed oil and controlling ones urges to masterbate actually worked I'd be a monk living in a pumpkin patch.........just sayin

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4017725/

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/70/3/439.abstract

[bmoreno299]

Hey jean so if I were to get myself all worked up like im going to masterbate but then didnt is that worse then actually doing it?

[k9gatton]

Fin and minoxidil my man.

Completely agree with you. Those are only proven to work.


Saw Palmetto has no proof behind it. In fact, some people say it
won't even lower DHT, which causes androgen alopecia.