Fin + Anti-Estrogen / Prevent Gyno

[BigThinker]

Guys,

So, in the last two weeks my chest has felt warm and itchy in general. I'm absolutely terrified of it being gyno.

I've been reading on anti-estrogens, and am strongly considering one.

From what I've read, the best are SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators), because they don't mess with how much Estrogen you have, but instead whether they bind to certain receptors -- like the tit region.

Can someone please make some recommendations:
-Should I start taking a SERM intermittently?
-Should I lose some BF, and just keep an eye on my chest?
-Should I stop stressing this?
-Should I take something besides a SERM?

I'm pretty shook up about having my chest feel itchy/warm all over the last couple weeks, so I really want to address this.

My shedding has stopped, I have a lot of regrowth at the hairline, and the itch is still gone -- stopping fin isn't an option. I would probably opt to have gyno removed if I developed it.

Money is not even a problem. So, don't let that filter your suggestions.

Thanks.

[BigThinker]

Or, I could drop my dosage down back down to 0.833mg from 1.25mg?

Is there a precedence to how our body uses DHT (hair follicles vs. binding to estrogen, etc.)?

Sorry to be such a worry wart. ;\

[Aames]

I read this without reading the author. I was deeply saddened when I saw that it was you, man. I want to tell you to get to lower body-fat before you can be sure it is gyno; but I am worried as I believe a point is reached where surgery is necessary if you have it long enough. Do you notice any tissue deposits or do you have puffy nipples? If not, I wouldn't be too worried. It could just be an increase in estrogen but not enough to cause actual tissue to develop. I remember reading about that guy who was on oral spiro. He said he had itchy nipples a lot of times but gyno never developed after over a year of taking it.

On another note, I am very pleased to hear that your shedding is down and you are noticing regrowth. Best of luck, brah.

[BigThinker]

I read this without reading the author. I was deeply saddened when I saw that it was you, man. I want to tell you to get to lower body-fat before you can be sure it is gyno; but I am worried as I believe a point is reached where surgery is necessary if you have it long enough. Do you notice any tissue deposits or do you have puffy nipples? If not, I wouldn't be too worried. It could just be an increase in estrogen but not enough to cause actual tissue to develop. I remember reading about that guy who was on oral spiro. He said he had itchy nipples a lot of times but gyno never developed after over a year of taking it.

On another note, I am very pleased to hear that your shedding is down and you are noticing regrowth. Best of luck, brah.

No visible gyno, but I have all of the "non-tangible" symptoms, if you will. Itchy, warm chest. Sort of saddening, because I've been side-effect free up to this point.

Frankly my body fat is up due to the stress and depression that grad school + winter + hair loss caused me. The fat deposits on my tummy are firm, but the fat deposits on my chest feel soft. I cringe sharing this.

I'm at the point where quitting fin isn't really an option. I would rather develop gyno and have it removed with surgery down the road than quit fin.

I would really, really, really like to prevent gyno at all costs though.

I'm sort of surprised no one has had any suggestions on this topic, and all the discussions I've read on the topic are short and end without a sound resolution.

Anyone????? Help a brother out! I'm strongly considering just getting on a SERM and sharing my experience with everyone. Apparently, once the symptoms are gone, you only need to take occasional doses. But there just isn't any good literature or documentations of its use with fin.

[baldozer]

Guys,

So, in the last two weeks my chest has felt warm and itchy in general. I'm absolutely terrified of it being gyno.

I've been reading on anti-estrogens, and am strongly considering one.

From what I've read, the best are SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators), because they don't mess with how much Estrogen you have, but instead whether they bind to certain receptors -- like the tit region.

Can someone please make some recommendations:
-Should I start taking a SERM intermittently?
-Should I lose some BF, and just keep an eye on my chest?
-Should I stop stressing this?
-Should I take something besides a SERM?

I'm pretty shook up about having my chest feel itchy/warm all over the last couple weeks, so I really want to address this.

My shedding has stopped, I have a lot of regrowth at the hairline, and the itch is still gone -- stopping fin isn't an option. I would probably opt to have gyno removed if I developed it.

Money is not even a problem. So, don't let that filter your suggestions.

Thanks.

Its your body, not a lab.

[clandestine]

Medicating your medication leads to problems, typically.

Look into Raloxifene, but it's not something you can sustain taking forever.

[mpb47]

No visible gyno, but I have all of the "non-tangible" symptoms, if you will. Itchy, warm chest. Sort of saddening, because I've been side-effect free up to this point.

Frankly my body fat is up due to the stress and depression that grad school + winter + hair loss caused me. The fat deposits on my tummy are firm, but the fat deposits on my chest feel soft. I cringe sharing this.

I'm at the point where quitting fin isn't really an option. I would rather develop gyno and have it removed with surgery down the road than quit fin.

I would really, really, really like to prevent gyno at all costs though.

I'm sort of surprised no one has had any suggestions on this topic, and all the discussions I've read on the topic are short and end without a sound resolution.

Anyone????? Help a brother out! I'm strongly considering just getting on a SERM and sharing my experience with everyone. Apparently, once the symptoms are gone, you only need to take occasional doses. But there just isn't any good literature or documentations of its use with fin.

Look at some of the T boards for more info. I will say if it's soft fat you are probably ok. As long as it's just fat and has no definition you are probably ok.
I have always had extra fat there when my weight is up and last year got concerned. Not because of Fin but because my Dr. put me on T. I started losing weight but at the same time I did notice some symptoms. One of my nipples would get really sore and sensitive. It may have been itchy too but If it was that was a minor thing. Even if you get to this point you are still ok. So I started reading some of the T boards where this a common problem and they go into more detail..like hard spots under your nipples, pics showing definition-by that I mean those pics that looked like a girl that was starting to get boobs with a shape, not just soft fat. . If you get to this point, then that's when you need to do something as if you wait too long, it becomes permanent. In my case some of the people on one of the boards told me what was wrong. It was not the T (I am on a low dose) , but the fact that I was also taking a supplement callled DHEA. I backed off on it and sure enough everything went back to normal. The funny thing is when I cut back on that, not only did the symptoms go away but my mpb slowed back down. When I first went on T (and dhea) my mpb speed up, esp in the back.

So feel for hardness under your nipples, that is probably what will happen next if you really have it, but right now at least, it sounds like you do not.

p.s yes there are supplements you can buy to counter it, but that could be opening up another can of worms and some of it is NOT safe. 2 safe easy to get supplements are Zinc and B6 vitamins.

[Woodyy]

Finasteride only increases circulating estrogen by about 10% doesn't it?

If you're experiencing side effects due to this minimal increase then a SERM over an AI would probably be much more beneficial, AI's such as aromasin, used at the traditional dosages, reduce estrogen at a far higher level that would take you way below baseline estrogen levels (something like 60%) although I have no idea if AI's in general or any particular AI's are dose dependant, if they are then I guess it would be useful to look into what dosage would result in restoring baseline estrogen levels.

As far as SERM's go I've used both nolvadex and clomid, clomid was probably one of the worst things I've ever taken, it gave me horrible depression (and I'm not even prone to depression), nolvadex didn't effect me mentally whatsoever. Of course this is just ancedotal, I'm unsure on the mechanism behind either giving these effects.

[Californication]

What month are you in? From what I have read, gyno tends to develop starting around the 4-6 month period (that is when I got what I considered gyno: don't know how bad it would have gotten because I tapered off, but it caused a noticeable, if slight for me--since I stopped--- increase in chest fat, puffy nipples--doctor agreed---).

Now, it's possible that it would not have gotten much worse, but that was not a risk I was willing to take. I thought it better to stop, reset the dosage at a lower dosage, and then possibly continue in the future (haven't done this yet).

I looked extensively into the anti-estrogen route but wasn't satisfied because of how long would I have to stay on it? Rest of the time you are on fin isn't an option, but if you can take it and perhaps and get the timing right where it is kind of staving off the gyno, then it might be an option. Tricky though obviously. Were I experienced with this sort of thing, I probably would have given it a go, but I wasn't willing to get more side effects from another medication, best of luck of though, and if you succeed, then please share what you did.

Best case scenario, you don't even have gyno though, but just watch for the fat/puffy nipples, it will be noticeable to you.

[BigThinker]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to follow-up on this post (almost forgot since I took a couple day hiatus from this occasionally toxic forum).

First, thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses -- except Highlander the mega-douche.

Anyways, I started taking a multi-vitamin again and have been getting pretty serious about cardio. Basically, I want to make sure I'm getting a good amount of zinc, and I want to drop my body fat.

Chest itch/warmth is gone. The day I wrote this, I had a rash above my right nipple that wasn't visibly noticeable up until that day (I think it was from shaving my nips -- yeah.. I gotta do that). I think that exacerbated my concerns at that time.

Also, I noticed my roommate who is pretty big into body building has way puffier nipples than what I was seeing on myself. He's on "over-the-counter" protein powders and what not, no roids or anything.

So, I think a bit of it was shit in my head, a bit of it was me getting a layer of fat on my chest/tummy from the winter, and the rest is probably just natural puffiness from getting serious in the gym.

Sorry to have wasted all of your guys' time. I will be keeping a watchful, but calm, eye on my chest/nipples as I continue to take the wonder drug.