Asking for Advice for Short Term Strategy

[Thinning87]

Hi Guys,

This is my second post and first of all congrats for the great forum. I have been reading for a while and never had much to add because of all the great info.

I found out I had MPB in April 2012, at the age of 24. I immediately tried to do everything I could about it and in early May started a regimen of Propecia (daily pill) + Minox (mix prepared by my dermatologist with 50% alcohol in it) + 2 anti Seborroic Dermatitis Shampoos (alternating on a daily basis): "Ala Seb Medicated Shampoo, Maximum Strength, 12 fl oz (355 ml)" and "Zinc Shampoo, Dhs 16oz". I also drank a ton of green tea and exercised 3-4 times a week with a fast paced 30 lap swim (been swimming all my life but not as regularly), and some running. I also ate a ton of Vitamin C and bananas, and took Zinc, vitamin C, and Vitamin D supplements.

I experienced common side effects from Propecia such as watery semen and decreased sexual drive. However these side effects were pretty mild. I was somewhat numb and did not perform as well as I used to when I ran and did sports, but overall a very bearable condition.

Especially because my regimen seemed to actually work: my dermatologist and I noticed some general strengthening/partial regrowth of the hair but most importantly no itching at all and basically no shedding (I seemed to have even less than the normal 150 hairs per day... I basically wasn't losing any hair in the shower). And wow my nails would grow so fast and my eyes turned to a britgher shade of blue!

But in October I felt very numb and lazy and decided to quit the Propecia. I had quit the Minox a month before because I couldn't stand how I had to put it on every morning and night. In addition, I ran out of my two shampoos in November and, eversince, have been using "Revita Hair Growth Shampoo" instead. Also, I had a couple situations in which my lower belly was inflamed and I couldn't go to the bathroom for a week, and quit the supplements.

Soon after quitting my regimen I felt a lot better in the head; my sexual drive is not what it was before but I am a definitely stronger and hornier. But, expectedly, I also began feeling like I was being touched by small "punctures" at the root of the hair, and then the itching came back. My hair is now a lot thinner than it was

I definitely shed a lot in these past couple months, which made me realize that my regimen was actually working. I am now thinner all over the place. When I first noticed a "hole" in April 2012, I was thinning all over but only had a small hole on my right temple. Now, the hole on the right has increased in size, with an expansion of its size, while the center (i.e. above forehead) and left temple are thinner and headed in the direction of what once was my hole in the right just 8 months ago.

Now, after all this, what I am here for is to ask a simple question: what advice would you give me for a 2-4 year strategy of containment? I recently decided that I'm going to put all my hopes in Histogen or Aderans or the Costlarelis thing for a release of a good drug within that time frame. I am lucky to have a very solid financial situation and as soon as Histogen comes out in Asia I would be happy to fly over there and get it done, so I basically am trying to keep as much hair as possible to increase my chances of a good outcome whatever route I will take in 2-5 years.

I am open to hair transplant surgery down the road if nothing works out. I just need my brain for work though as I work in a very fast paced field and cannot make mistakes, so I am very skeptical using Propecia.

I am trying to come up with a regimen that will somewhat decrease the speed of my thinning, and am lucky enough (at least for now) to have no need to take immediate and heavy action cosmetically as I still look like I have no problem if I just do my hair somewhat short (it actually looks good).

Anyone in the same situation? I am going back to taking tea, tried the soy and spicy thing (and then found out some say soy is actually bad for MPB!), and am considering some natural DHT blockers although would prefer to stay away form that. I am considering taking propecia 1-2-3 times a week, and am going back to eating more vitamin C although my diet is always good. I would not want to go back to Rogaine as I would eventually get tired of putting it on twice a day and putting up with how dirty my hair will look.

Thanks so much for bearing with me through the long post and please do not hesitate to share your story and opinion, especially if you are also in a similar situation and are hanging on to your hair in hope of the new technologies to give us a better answer than Fin and what we have now!

[Kayman]

Hi Guys,

This is my second post and first of all congrats for the great forum. I have been reading for a while and never had much to add because of all the great info.

I found out I had MPB in April 2012, at the age of 24. I immediately tried to do everything I could about it and in early May started a regimen of Propecia (daily pill) + Minox (mix prepared by my dermatologist with 50% alcohol in it) + 2 anti Seborroic Dermatitis Shampoos (alternating on a daily basis): "Ala Seb Medicated Shampoo, Maximum Strength, 12 fl oz (355 ml)" and "Zinc Shampoo, Dhs 16oz". I also drank a ton of green tea and exercised 3-4 times a week with a fast paced 30 lap swim (been swimming all my life but not as regularly), and some running. I also ate a ton of Vitamin C and bananas, and took Zinc, vitamin C, and Vitamin D supplements.

I experienced common side effects from Propecia such as watery semen and decreased sexual drive. However these side effects were pretty mild. I was somewhat numb and did not perform as well as I used to when I ran and did sports, but overall a very bearable condition.

Especially because my regimen seemed to actually work: my dermatologist and I noticed some general strengthening/partial regrowth of the hair but most importantly no itching at all and basically no shedding (I seemed to have even less than the normal 150 hairs per day... I basically wasn't losing any hair in the shower). And wow my nails would grow so fast and my eyes turned to a britgher shade of blue!

But in October I felt very numb and lazy and decided to quit the Propecia. I had quit the Minox a month before because I couldn't stand how I had to put it on every morning and night. In addition, I ran out of my two shampoos in November and, eversince, have been using "Revita Hair Growth Shampoo" instead. Also, I had a couple situations in which my lower belly was inflamed and I couldn't go to the bathroom for a week, and quit the supplements.

Soon after quitting my regimen I felt a lot better in the head; my sexual drive is not what it was before but I am a definitely stronger and hornier. But, expectedly, I also began feeling like I was being touched by small "punctures" at the root of the hair, and then the itching came back. My hair is now a lot thinner than it was

I definitely shed a lot in these past couple months, which made me realize that my regimen was actually working. I am now thinner all over the place. When I first noticed a "hole" in April 2012, I was thinning all over but only had a small hole on my right temple. Now, the hole on the right has increased in size, with an expansion of its size, while the center (i.e. above forehead) and left temple are thinner and headed in the direction of what once was my hole in the right just 8 months ago.

Now, after all this, what I am here for is to ask a simple question: what advice would you give me for a 2-4 year strategy of containment? I recently decided that I'm going to put all my hopes in Histogen or Aderans or the Costlarelis thing for a release of a good drug within that time frame. I am lucky to have a very solid financial situation and as soon as Histogen comes out in Asia I would be happy to fly over there and get it done, so I basically am trying to keep as much hair as possible to increase my chances of a good outcome whatever route I will take in 2-5 years.

I am open to hair transplant surgery down the road if nothing works out. I just need my brain for work though as I work in a very fast paced field and cannot make mistakes, so I am very skeptical using Propecia.

I am trying to come up with a regimen that will somewhat decrease the speed of my thinning, and am lucky enough (at least for now) to have no need to take immediate and heavy action cosmetically as I still look like I have no problem if I just do my hair somewhat short (it actually looks good).

Anyone in the same situation? I am going back to taking tea, tried the soy and spicy thing (and then found out some say soy is actually bad for MPB!), and am considering some natural DHT blockers although would prefer to stay away form that. I am considering taking propecia 1-2-3 times a week, and am going back to eating more vitamin C although my diet is always good. I would not want to go back to Rogaine as I would eventually get tired of putting it on twice a day and putting up with how dirty my hair will look.

Thanks so much for bearing with me through the long post and please do not hesitate to share your story and opinion, especially if you are also in a similar situation and are hanging on to your hair in hope of the new technologies to give us a better answer than Fin and what we have now!

The only things that will help you retain are propecia or minoxidil, nizoral shampoo will help also but alone it wont do much. Vitamins and tea and soy and spicy etc will do nothing to maintain your hair. It's minoxidil, propecia, nizoral, that is it.
When you mentioned hair transplant surgery you'll need to take propecia after you have it done because the surrounding hair will also fall out eventually (propecia will slow this down) but ultimately you would need multiple surgeries to replace the hair that goes after your first transplant, very very expensive.
There isn't really enough known about Histogen as to its potential as a long term solution, does the hair it produces last for 2 years? 5? 10? Do we need to be on propecia to maintain the hair histogen has grown back? Right now its all a bit cloudy.

[Thinning87]

Yeah I understand waiting for Histogen is quite a gamble. But I am not really keen on taking Propecia indefinitely... I don't like how numb and brain fogged I get.

What do you think about trying Propecia 1-2-3- times per week?

[Exodus]

Yeah I understand waiting for Histogen is quite a gamble. But I am not really keen on taking Propecia indefinitely... I don't like how numb and brain fogged I get.

What do you think about trying Propecia 1-2-3- times per week?

What are your experiences with it? You seem quite honest about the sides? Are they bad? My inkling in people WILL get sides, it's just to what degree they affect you and how long they last...

[Thinning87]

What are your experiences with it? You seem quite honest about the sides? Are they bad? My inkling in people WILL get sides, it's just to what degree they affect you and how long they last...

I had some immediate sexual side effects that boiled down to watery semen. Then the semen was less watery (but still kind of watery) but my general libido decreased. After 5 months I was generally less horny in general, it's not that I couldn't get it up, I just didn't care so much to do it.... but if I had a girlfriend I don't think I'd be at a point where I can't get it up with her in bed... only our relationship wouldn't be that erotic I guess, I don't know.

I never got back to the levels of libido I had before (been 2 months off Propecia now) and that kind of scares me.

I am actually on a six month holiday right now and will start working in July on a very stressful position (a lot of flying all over the US to meet clients, working to meet deadlines, etc.) so being somewhat numb woouldn't affect me so much for now if I had to get back on propecia, but then 6 months later I wouldn't want to be brain fogged again... one time I almost caused a car crash by how numb I was! I think I could try to be on a very stable sleep schedule, go out less on weekends and weeknights, and just party less often right now, and that maybe might make the Fin a lot less problematic.

For how reckless it may sound, I made a choice to put all my eggs in one basket and hope Histogen will be successful relatively fast (I give it 5 years which I think would still let me keep a decent look if I kept my hair short). I realize it might end up not being an easy product to take, but even if Histogen had to be taken with Propecia, it would be for a much better reason and I would re evaluate the tradeoff between costs and benefits.

I never thought I'd need to be on Propecia after a HT, that means people who have had one have been on Propecia basically all their life! That would suck.

I'm going to get it cut very short tomorrow, a 1 on the sides and a 2 on top. If I look good enough I'll just keep it that way until I'm 30 (I think I'll be able to look good until then as my MPB proceeds very slowly).

Thanks for the replies!

[Exodus]

Are you going to give it another go then?

[Thinning87]

I don't know I was hoping to get some input from other people here as to whether if I had any other alternatives to try. I mean I do realize that the natural regimes are pretty much BS, not to mention that it's hard to measure how much DHT blocking you are doing if you just include a lot of DHT blockers in your diet, and you might even cause more blocking than just with Finasteride therefore hurting your self even more.

I was hoping I could find someone who at least is trying to do the same type of thing to hold on to their hair for a few years to see what comes out.

[BigThinker]

Hey Thinning87,

Just wanted to start by saying thanks for sharing your story. Similarly to you, I was 24 when I noticed my thinning (~9 months ago). Also, similarly to you, I saw a derm who was very helpful and effectively offered to prescribe me fin, but also advised I wait a little longer to see if I bounce back (basically, confirming it isn't something else). This is all after a round of blood draws that came back normal.

I'm at the point now where I already called and asked for my derm appointment to be late February, instead of the initial late March (4 month re-visit) because I just had one of those days where your hair bugs the shit out of you. I'm already antsy to call and get it bumped another month closer, which would be in about two weeks. I can say with relative certainty I will start fin or say f**k treatment, and take this hairloss shit head-on. I havn't decided which, which is why I'm here ranting on your thread.

How much were you paying for fin? I think I'd prefer to go generic and keep costs down. I'm already getting my hair cut shorter and shorter and learning to cope with my thinned hair. On the flip-side, I do have a noticeable amount of new hairs popping up at the hairline. However, they may just be ticking away until death, and not indication that my current hair situation is miraculously getting better. My quality of hair fallen hair isn't much different than the hair upon my head.

I'm overall just really indecisive on what I want to do. I will commit myself to something in the next 2 months, guaranteed - whether it's saying "f**k it", or beginning my fin journey.

I guess what I want to know is: do you wish you had just been a bit more patient before starting fin? Did you start a little early and get sick of it because you thought maybe it wasn't necessary? I can understand dropping minox because it's expensive and a pain in the ass, but fin is just a pill you pop and I can't imagine it's that expensive with a prescription. If I do this fin thing, I'm going to do it right (long term, taper on). But a part of me just wants to say I can cope with being a progressively bald 25 year old.

Thanks in advance for your advice, even though you were initially the one seeking it on this thread. Further, I hope my concerns are apparent in this rant, because I barely formally asked any questions.

Regards, buddy.

[BigThinker]

I don't know I was hoping to get some input from other people here as to whether if I had any other alternatives to try. I mean I do realize that the natural regimes are pretty much BS, not to mention that it's hard to measure how much DHT blocking you are doing if you just include a lot of DHT blockers in your diet, and you might even cause more blocking than just with Finasteride therefore hurting your self even more.

I was hoping I could find someone who at least is trying to do the same type of thing to hold on to their hair for a few years to see what comes out.

I don't think anyone on this forum is going to advise anything other than the Big 3, and with good reason. It's what is scientifically accepted to be occasionally effective. Frankly, everything else is likely a waste of your money and energy. It was nice to read you are taking care of yourself, at least physically. I've been logging 8 hours of sleep a night, exercising almost every single day, and eating extremely healthy. I'm not expecting it to keep me NW 2 until death, but maybe it'll at least slow down the process. Regardless, I'll feel a hell of a lot better along the way.

[Kayman]

Yeah I understand waiting for Histogen is quite a gamble. But I am not really keen on taking Propecia indefinitely... I don't like how numb and brain fogged I get.

What do you think about trying Propecia 1-2-3- times per week?

I took propecia and it worked for about 6 years, then lost effectiveness for me, however when I was taking it I got the brain fog and it made it hard on me to get through college, thankfully I did but my mind often felt cloudy and I would have trouble remembering things on a regular basis and I wouldn't be able to concentrate so well. Looking back, to me, it wasn't worth it. I've been off of it for a few months now and the cloudiness in my mind has started to lift and I feel much more mentally alert these days. You could try propecia on a 1-2-3 times per week basis but I don't think its going to help in that respect it doesn't stay in the system for very long.
If you're getting brain fog and sexual sides then to me its not worth taking it, I'd rather be alert and sexually driven / healthy with regular semen than to retain a bit of hair. It's good you're staying in shape perhaps just make that the focal point of your physical appearance. I mentioned in an earlier post that I now have been having orthodontic dental work to fix my teeth up and that's my main focal point, that and keeping physically fit. I suppose you could say the confidence I lost with my hair I regained with my smile. I care more about my sexual and mental health than I do about my hair.

[Thinning87]

Hey Thinning87,

Just wanted to start by saying thanks for sharing your story. Similarly to you, I was 24 when I noticed my thinning (~9 months ago). Also, similarly to you, I saw a derm who was very helpful and effectively offered to prescribe me fin, but also advised I wait a little longer to see if I bounce back (basically, confirming it isn't something else). This is all after a round of blood draws that came back normal.

I'm at the point now where I already called and asked for my derm appointment to be late February, instead of the initial late March (4 month re-visit) because I just had one of those days where your hair bugs the shit out of you. I'm already antsy to call and get it bumped another month closer, which would be in about two weeks. I can say with relative certainty I will start fin or say f**k treatment, and take this hairloss shit head-on. I havn't decided which, which is why I'm here ranting on your thread.

How much were you paying for fin? I think I'd prefer to go generic and keep costs down. I'm already getting my hair cut shorter and shorter and learning to cope with my thinned hair. On the flip-side, I do have a noticeable amount of new hairs popping up at the hairline. However, they may just be ticking away until death, and not indication that my current hair situation is miraculously getting better. My quality of hair fallen hair isn't much different than the hair upon my head.

I'm overall just really indecisive on what I want to do. I will commit myself to something in the next 2 months, guaranteed - whether it's saying "f**k it", or beginning my fin journey.

I guess what I want to know is: do you wish you had just been a bit more patient before starting fin? Did you start a little early and get sick of it because you thought maybe it wasn't necessary? I can understand dropping minox because it's expensive and a pain in the ass, but fin is just a pill you pop and I can't imagine it's that expensive with a prescription. If I do this fin thing, I'm going to do it right (long term, taper on). But a part of me just wants to say I can cope with being a progressively bald 25 year old.

Thanks in advance for your advice, even though you were initially the one seeking it on this thread. Further, I hope my concerns are apparent in this rant, because I barely formally asked any questions.

Regards, buddy.

Hey man

Looks like we're in the exact same position. Some days I feel wise and decide to face the inevitable without putting up a fight against the unchangeable. Other days I'm pissed off though, and try to remember how life was before constantly having this problem in the back of my mind.

I did not like taking Fin at all but let's face it it wasn't the end of the world. The cost is relatively high, $2.5 per pill ca. (which as you know means $2.5 daily) according to my calculations if you just buy it at WalMart. Some people can get the generic pill and save money, I didn't really look into that.

Side effects weren't so bad, although pressure from some in my family and fear for decreased libido and mental fog ended up making me quit.

Do keep in mind though that at our age it's the last call. Either you get on it now or you won't gain so much from it if you don't start early.

It was easy for me to quit it because I never really experienced any social discomfort due to baldness, and so it was easy to be wise and accept the process as part of life like every male in my family did (with one HT exception who told me it's not worth it) when the consequences are postponed to a later point in time.

And what worries me is that once I really do become noticeable and lose my looks (I ain't Brad Pitt but I would say of myself as being above average) it will be much harder to say hook up with a girl at a club, etc. That's why I'm gonna try cutting it very short tomorrow.

So to answer your question, yeah I quit Finasteride probably because I don't pay the social consequences yet and it's therefore easy to take it lightly. You;re right to think you either do it as a long term thing or don't do it.

The important thing to udnerstand in my opinion is that it depends on your goals at this point and how you see yourself in the future (in other words how important do you expect your hair to be at age 30, 35, etc.): what is the timeline you want to have for your hair, how long do you want to hold on to it, etc.

I optimistically will continue to be unnoticeable it for the next 2-3 years if I don't take any drugs and just keep it short. I say this because I have a friend who is 2 years older and has had the same exact type of hair loss with general thinning all over the place. To my trained eye he is losing hair, but it's hard to notice. Sounds like you are experiencing the same type of MPB.

I decided am going to party and have a ton of fun now that I can, but as I will reach 28 I expect work to be 70% of my life. I think at that point my lifestyle will be a lot different, I will be surrounded by people who just don't care about what my hair looks like. Yeah, I won't get any smiles from random girls while I read the paper at Starbucks anymore, and I won't be able to flirt with the girl in the office right next to mine, and so on...

but what the hell I am not planning to go to clubs and concerts all the time like I do now once I hit 28.... Also, I am hoping at that stage in life girls my age will also be a little bit more mature; I already noticed a huge change now at our age from what girls acted like just 3 years ago in college. Keep in mind at 30 girls will be looking at completely different types of men because they will be looking to get married...

Honestly, keeping hair is all about impressing girls. Many here might disagree, but I think hair won't be that big of a deal at 30 if I keep in good shape, have an active lifestyle, and just play my cards well if you really want to hook up with some girl one night. It all depends on the type of people you surround your self with though, I'd say pretty much all my friends now are very intelligent.

So that is my thought, and then in addition I am thinking if I am lucky, Histogen/Aderans etc. will have something for me in 5 years. Now, I wasn't following the forum as much a month ago, but recent news is making me very optimistic (see posts in the cutting edge solutions area of the forum). I mean these guys at Histogen are definitely onto something, not to mention Aderans and the new companies. Yes, they tell us people 20 years older than us have been disappointed many times, but this is different, we're looking at actual statistically significant data now, and these companies are making very fast progress despite what some say (Histogen got financing in 2009 and 2010 if I remember correctly!).

Hence my thoughts about a short term strategy... I figure if it can make a difference, I will stay on Fin for another couple years... but if things don't look good in the short run I am definitely sticking to what I said above. Also very important will be how I will look tomorrow after taking off all this hair I have on me now!

I hope this helps... I wrote a lot!

[This Sucks]

Yeah I understand waiting for Histogen is quite a gamble. But I am not really keen on taking Propecia indefinitely... I don't like how numb and brain fogged I get.

What do you think about trying Propecia 1-2-3- times per week?

Can you explain more about this numbness?

Like you couldn't feel your penis at all?


Thats the thing that scares me about taking finasteride.

[Thinning87]

I took propecia and it worked for about 6 years, then lost effectiveness for me, however when I was taking it I got the brain fog and it made it hard on me to get through college, thankfully I did but my mind often felt cloudy and I would have trouble remembering things on a regular basis and I wouldn't be able to concentrate so well. Looking back, to me, it wasn't worth it. I've been off of it for a few months now and the cloudiness in my mind has started to lift and I feel much more mentally alert these days. You could try propecia on a 1-2-3 times per week basis but I don't think its going to help in that respect it doesn't stay in the system for very long.
If you're getting brain fog and sexual sides then to me its not worth taking it, I'd rather be alert and sexually driven / healthy with regular semen than to retain a bit of hair. It's good you're staying in shape perhaps just make that the focal point of your physical appearance. I mentioned in an earlier post that I now have been having orthodontic dental work to fix my teeth up and that's my main focal point, that and keeping physically fit. I suppose you could say the confidence I lost with my hair I regained with my smile. I care more about my sexual and mental health than I do about my hair.

Well said sir!

About the propecia, yeah I hear you, I remember talking about a decreased dose with a dermatologist who went to Harvard med and also has gone through MPB and a HT.... well he didn't have much to say, pretty much what you said, although he was like "why not"....

[This Sucks]

I don't think anyone on this forum is going to advise anything other than the Big 3, and with good reason. It's what is scientifically accepted to be occasionally effective. Frankly, everything else is likely a waste of your money and energy. It was nice to read you are taking care of yourself, at least physically. I've been logging 8 hours of sleep a night, exercising almost every single day, and eating extremely healthy. I'm not expecting it to keep me NW 2 until death, but maybe it'll at least slow down the process. Regardless, I'll feel a hell of a lot better along the way.

What is the big three?

1. finasteride
2. Rogaine
3. ?

[Thinning87]

Can you explain more about this numbness?

Like you couldn't feel your penis at all?


Thats the thing that scares me about taking finasteride.

hahahha no no I can feel it, it's still there.

The numbness is referred to my mental fog and inability to be a critical thinker.

Sexually, I just didn't have all this desire to do it, it's like I wasn't really seeing the motivation to have sex as much, although if I was with a girl I could get it up no problem. An example maybe is one time I was with this girl and she wanted to do it, but I didn't find her all that sexy (she wasn't the hottest chick in the planet but I brought her home anyways) and I turned her down not because I couldn't get it up but because I was like "uhm I don't really care I'd rather relax". That had never happened to me... or any male in the planet...