Am I a Norwood 2 or 3? (or 2A or 3A?)

[Tracy C]

Dr. Charles has mentioned sulfate free shampoo on this board several times. I use Aveeno "Pure Renewal" sulfate free shampoo and conditioner and like them a lot. There are other brands. It usually states on the bottle if it is sulfate free or not. If it doesn't say so on the bottle, it probably isn't sulfate free.

[Kirby_]

Basically have a bald patch, a SOLAR PANEL on top now. Propecia has destroyed my crown. It can't have been this bad before. I have taken Propecia for six months and NOTHING but a huge amount of shedding in the first month. Either I left it too late because no-one told me I was balding when it actually started, (my girlfriend denies that I have MPB, says I have "naturally thin hair in patches", I relied on her to tell me if there was anything wrong). I had to physically force myself to get a new prescription pack of Propecia earlier today. I can't leave the house without a hat, or answer the door. I am getting panic attacks every day unless I take the Lorazepam I was prescribed. I have to be very careful every single day to make sure I don't shave my head and throw away the tablets, it all seems hopeless.

[Kirby_]

Don't have a baseline photo to hand, taken with a proper camera, but this is two weeks after starting Propecia, taken with a webcam.

[gutted]

Basically have a bald patch, a SOLAR PANEL on top now. Propecia has destroyed my crown. It can't have been this bad before. I have taken Propecia for six months and NOTHING but a huge amount of shedding in the first month. Either I left it too late because no-one told me I was balding when it actually started, (my girlfriend denies that I have MPB, says I have "naturally thin hair in patches", I relied on her to tell me if there was anything wrong). I had to physically force myself to get a new prescription pack of Propecia earlier today. I can't leave the house without a hat, or answer the door. I am getting panic attacks every day unless I take the Lorazepam I was prescribed. I have to be very careful every single day to make sure I don't shave my head and throw away the tablets, it all seems hopeless.

so what are you trying to say?

propecia made your hair loss worse??

[UK_]

Basically have a bald patch, a SOLAR PANEL on top now. Propecia has destroyed my crown. It can't have been this bad before. I have taken Propecia for six months and NOTHING but a huge amount of shedding in the first month. Either I left it too late because no-one told me I was balding when it actually started, (my girlfriend denies that I have MPB, says I have "naturally thin hair in patches", I relied on her to tell me if there was anything wrong). I had to physically force myself to get a new prescription pack of Propecia earlier today. I can't leave the house without a hat, or answer the door. I am getting panic attacks every day unless I take the Lorazepam I was prescribed. I have to be very careful every single day to make sure I don't shave my head and throw away the tablets, it all seems hopeless.

I dont know, but talking about panic attacks rings 'telogen' alarm bells.

[2020]

why are all your photos black and white? I think your photos make it look worse than it actually is

[gutted]

I dont know, but talking about panic attacks rings 'telogen' alarm bells.

it wasnt too long ago you was championing the drug.

from the photos it looks like you have diffuse thinning. diffuse thinning is easily reversible.

[2020]

I dont know, but talking about panic attacks rings 'telogen' alarm bells.

or worse:
reflex hyperandrogenicity

[Kirby_]

so what are you trying to say?

propecia made your hair loss worse??

In some form. If this is the expected 'shed', then I am finding it rather distressing that there seems to be no evidence that the shed is reversing.

I dont know, but talking about panic attacks rings 'telogen' alarm bells.

Really? Telogen is the all-over non-MPB thinning, right? The sides and back do look 'grainy' (see here), but that must surely be down to the short length at the moment, much shorter than I normally had my hair pre-treatment. And the horseshoe area is definitely denser than the top, certainly compared to the nearly-bald patch...

from the photos it looks like you have diffuse thinning. diffuse thinning is easily reversible.

Diffuse thinning in the MPB sense, rather than telogen? Are either that reversible? What happens if I have telogen stacked on top of ongoing MPB? I did try and tell myself that I had some kind of non-MPB hairloss for a few months, but the evidence doesn't seem to be the case.

or worse:
reflex hyperandrogenicity

That's the process when 5aRIs stop working after five or so years, right? That would be crushing if that is what is going on. I can't think what would cause that, as I've only taken fin since mid January, and never taken any similar kind of medication since.

(Last post was a bit panicked, took another half tab of Lorazepam to calm me down.)

[gutted]

In some form. If this is the expected 'shed', then I am finding it rather distressing that there seems to be no evidence that the shed is reversing.


Really? Telogen is the all-over non-MPB thinning, right? The sides and back do look 'grainy' (see here), but that must surely be down to the short length at the moment, much shorter than I normally had my hair pre-treatment. And the horseshoe area is definitely denser than the top, certainly compared to the nearly-bald patch...


Diffuse thinning in the MPB sense, rather than telogen? Are either that reversible? What happens if I have telogen stacked on top of ongoing MPB? I did try and tell myself that I had some kind of non-MPB hairloss for a few months, but the evidence doesn't seem to be the case.


That's the process when 5aRIs stop working after five or so years, right? That would be crushing if that is what is going on. I can't think what would cause that, as I've only taken fin since mid January, and never taken any similar kind of medication since.

(Last post was a bit panicked, took another half tab of Lorazepam to calm me down.)

dude, to me it doesnt even look like you had mpb to begin with. it could be argued you were experince diffuse thinning mpb, but even then that could be a result of the drug you are taking for the panic attacks.

what is a telogen? what you mean is a telogen effliivium.

this telogen efflicvium could have been caused by the panic attack drug you are on.

[Kirby_]

dude, to me it doesnt even look like you had mpb to begin with. it could be argued you were experince diffuse thinning mpb, but even then that could be a result of the drug you are taking for the panic attacks.

what is a telogen? what you mean is a telogen effliivium.

this telogen efflicvium could have been caused by the panic attack drug you are on.

The NHS website lists "hair loss" as a side-effect of Lorazepam, but unfortunately it can't have been a trigger for hairloss in my case. I was prescribed it most recently two weeks ago, as my panic attacks about the balding got worse. Last time I took the medicine was October/November last year, after I first noticed early signs of MPB after a haircut, which sent me into a terrible state! I usually get Lorazepam prescribed 2 or 3 times a year when I am at my worst.

I'm not sure how I can discover if it is telogen effluvium, just to rule it out for all. I'm doubtful that is the case, as the thinning I'm getting is all over the typical MPB areas., and I do have a MPB-dented hairline.

[2020]

stop taking anti-depressants first of all.... not only it will possibly make your hair loss worse but it will permanently **** up your brain.
Whatever crap you people are taking for depression can't be more effective than regular vitamin D + exercise....

[Kirby_]

I should do really, but in my defence, I'm not an ongoing user of the Lorazepam. The most recent prescription I was only given ten tablets, and I'm not taking them every day. (Apparently the NHS doesn't like prescribing benzodiazepines these days and I'm "lucky" to be prescribed it.)

I totally agree with you about antidepressants (SSRIs) being nasty shit though! Was on four types on-and-off from 2001 to 2005. Had brain-fog, no libido, terrible withdrawal symptoms if I missed a day's medication. Ruined four years of my life which I should have enjoyed (being at college/university).

[Kirby_]

Just looked up Telogen effluvium on the NHS website.

Telogen effluvium is a type of temporary hair loss that can be caused by your body reacting to:

hormonal changes, such as those that take place when a woman is pregnant
a short-term illness, such as a severe infection or an operation

a long-term illness, such as cancer or liver disease

changes in your diet, such as crash dieting

some medications, such as anticoagulants (medicines that reduce the ability of your blood to clot) or beta-blockers (used to treat a number of conditions, such as high blood pressure)

None of that sounds applicable to my case AFAIK. Unless lowering DHT could count among "hormonal changes"... And in terms of medications, surely if Lorazepam was causing me TE, I would've had that before, and it wouldn't make me thin out in a MPB pattern... (Come to think of it, it's mostly like a Ludwig I-3 pattern, just with a larger bald patch where the vertex and midscalp meet up.)

[gutted]

Just looked up Telogen effluvium on the NHS website.


None of that sounds applicable to my case AFAIK. Unless lowering DHT could count among "hormonal changes"... And in terms of medications, surely if Lorazepam was causing me TE, I would've had that before, and it wouldn't make me thin out in a MPB pattern... (Come to think of it, it's mostly like a Ludwig I-3 pattern, just with a larger bald patch where the vertex and midscalp meet up.)

is minox an option for you?