Struggle To Defeat Baldness (Norwood 4-5)

[StressedToTheBald]

I've opened a separate thread to ask if anyone might have tried infrared massagers for hair loss. That laser comb thing is said to be FDA approved, still its expensive and many dispute the benefits.. Has anyone tried it and could cheap infrared replacement have any benefits ? Essentially, massager as such can't hurt for hair loss, the only question is if infrared light comparing to laser can add up in any way ?

[sausage]

I feel the same way as you stressedtothebald.

I don't want to be bald and impotent and then die of a heart attack, my lifes crap enough as it is. I also have no confidence that Minoxidil, Propecia, etc work.

Apparently 40-50% of people maintain their hair if they use these medications!!!!

That means if tried Minoxidil I have a 40-50% chance of stopping my hair loss. And if that didn't work then I could try Propecia which has the same 40-50% chance of stopping my hairloss. Almost a 50-50 chance either way, that equates to a good chance of me keeping my hair.......apparently, yet I still see bald men everywhere and don't see these medications being talked up about in the media, in adverts etc (although Minoxidil has an advert now). I am not going to rule out they don't work in some cases but it baffles me that if they claim to be that successful why are they pretty much unknown to the general public, everyone, even people with hair would know about them if they were that good.

Also slapping a sticky, strong smelling, dangerous, and expensive liquid on your head every day, especially when you have longish hair is not fun, does not look good and makes you feel like even more of an idiot and a bit of a mug.

If you feel very negative about your hair, save up for a hair transplant, do what is necessary to save the money you need. Otherwise try to live with it. I have decided I cannot live with it and I am going down the transplant route.

At least there is clear evidence that HT's work these days.

[StressedToTheBald]

Its true, the potential of trading baldness for impotence or heart problem at some point in the future ain't a fair trade to begin with. As I have written in my first post - I had experience with a very powerful drug in my 20s called accutane(isotretinoin), I remember beeing on it on very high doses for maybe even 7 months, and although it did pretty much cure my skin problem, well not 100% but I'll say cured anyway, I believe this drug might have played a major role in speeding up my male pattern baldness and has likely left side effects in terms of increased depression etc... Quote:"Adverse drug reactions associated with isotretinoin therapy include:Common: temporary or permanent hair thinning (this could start or continue after treatment)". I can't prove it, but thats what it feels like. Many of the drugs, FDA approved, carry side effects and its easy to cure one problem only to end up with another, thats why I give my vote to natural stuff before anything else.. Yes, the chances of success are smaller and indeed 99% of supposed naturals really don't work, but if You are lucky to get that 1% to work at least to some degree, then we could avoid both dangerous side effects and high costs of FDA drugs.

And I stand with my thoughts regarding pharmaceutical industry - they are driven by profits, not humanity. With all advances in science and medicine, we still don't have proper cures for many many health problems. Hair loss industry alone turns over billions of dollars each year. Its hardly in anyone's interest in this industry to find a one time cure, let alone to develop natural cure that cannot be patented. Anyone with 2 brain cells in them is well aware of this.

Chances 40-50% are not in our favour either. And add to that the fact of lifetime maintanance, costs etc. And the worse one is on the Norwood scale, the more time it takes. Even on those proof photos of finasteride and minox success - I can see 1+ or 2+ years of constant usage and still a good number of patients who started with bad case of baldness, still have visible areas that are bald or thinning. After 2+ years, better but not cured, simply feels not good enough.

I'd go for the transplant too and maybe at some point in the future I will be able to afford it. Let me know Your procedure went and overall number of grafts and costs. Also I see surgeons tend to prescribe minox and propecia after the procedure - I'd like to know if Your doctor will do the same and if You will use any of those after the transplant. I'd go for the maximum number of grafts, the greater the density, the better it looks - plus if some of old hairs fall out, it would still be less noticable with more hairs transplanted.

[sausage]

Well I am going to try to get the best surgeon I can and make sure I get it done as full and as dense as possible.

By the sounds of things from what I have heard....surgeons recommend Propecia. As you know I am skeptical of this medication, but I will possibly give it a try, it is supposed to work better for hair on top of the head/crown which is the hair I need to keep.

I definately do not want to become impotent though and I don't think my heart is too good anyway with all the stress I go through each day...I keep getting these short aching pains where my heart is which I should probably go to the doctor about. When I last saw my doctor she checked by blood pressure and it was high......so I am guessing the stress of hairloss has caused that to an already anxious person.

I am still researching into Hair Transplants and plan to get some consultations done in the next few weeks. So a long way to go, hopefully if I do go through with it I will book it within the next month and get it done in April/May.

The whole thing is pretty scary...the money...and fitting it around work.

[StressedToTheBald]

Its one in a lifetime operation, I agree, best surgeon & max. density would be my pick too. Sadly it must cost a small fortune, but better to pay more than pay less and regret it for the rest of Your life. Btw. I'd go for that individual hair graft transplant method - its more expensive but I believe much better than the other one - which includes cutting the larger skin area from the back of Your head - that one is cheaper but I'd never go for it as among things it can lead to serious tissue scarring, which I am very prone to.

They sadly seem to recommend propecia.. Anyway maybe there are alternatives. I'd like to know what Your doctor will tell You and You should mention that You have heart/pressure condition.. worst case scenario, if Your doctor insists on it, maybe you can ask to go only with 0.5mg every 2nd day or something - if nothing else that should reduce risks of serious side effects. And hopefuly he won't tell You anything like 'You'll have to use propecia for the rest of your life..'

Keep me updated about the results and overall process.
Finding the best and dedicated surgeon is the greatest initial challenge I think.

[sausage]

Yes, I am definately going for FUE (The individual hair by hair technique).

The FUT (Strip cut out the back of your head) is completely barbaric to me. It looks a terrible process, I don't know why anyone would go with this technique its sickening to me and I am not particularly squeamish.

I am not sure if I have heart/blood pressure problems for sure. I ideally need to get my blood pressure checked again for sure. But I believe my health must have been affected in some way for all the stress I go through, and these heart pains are a concern.

[StressedToTheBald]

Yes, I'd only go for FUE as well. FUT indeed seems barbaric and something that in my humble opinion doesn't at all belong in this century. I don't think I'd go for that one even if some surgeon would offer it free of charge. It surprises me though why high-end surgeons still do FUT and proudly enlist it along FUE. I've recently been browsing the website of whats supposed to be one of the top hair transplant clinics in Europe - and surprise, surprise - they do both methods. I understand some people might choose it for beeing a bit cheaper - but they could easily regret it when it all ends up with severe scarring. I've also read experiences of people who have chosen FUT and now bitterly regret it.

I too am under a lot of stress.
I try to combat it with B100 high complex and more than 1.000mg of vitamin C. Animals under stress are able to produce vitamin C on their own, humans cannot, so its crucial to supplement it. I soon plan to start on 100mg theanine - its natural psychoactive and supposed to kill off emotional and physical stress. It calms down but doesn't sedate - which is good as generic drugs and most supplements work against stress but also sedate which isn't at all useful during the day. St. John's Worth is also good stuff for stress btw.

[StressedToTheBald]

Regarding propecia, here is a fair description..
Its from replicel website - some new research in progress everyone is talking about here http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=5067

http://www.replicel.com/hair-loss/current-treatments/

"Propecia® (Finasteride)
...There is insufficient evidence that Propecia® works for receding hairlines at the temples. Listed side effects include erectile dysfunction and depression. Once treatment is stopped, all results will be lost within 6 to 12 months."

Half of my problem is the receding hairlines actually, side effects are scary and not worth the gamble and as minoxidil this too if it works at all only works on temporary basis otherwise you get the initial stage of baldness.

Don't know when this replicel will come out as available product, if its affordable and offers more permanent results, with hopefuly vegan content of the product, I'd be willing to try it out.

Trouble with these new researches though is that they pretty much all take years to finish and throw out some genuine product on the market. Therefore, years go by, and the FDA list remains stuck with only 2 products none of which is a genuine, complete and risk free cure for baldness..

[StressedToTheBald]

And here is the study for what I am currently on. I take 4 x 120mg of beta sitosterol daily and will give it at least 5 months to see if there will be any visible improvement in my case.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12006122?dopt=Abstract

J Altern Complement Med. 2002 Apr;8(2):143-52.
A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial to determine the effectiveness of botanically derived inhibitors of 5-alpha-reductase in the treatment of androgenetic alopecia.
Prager N, Bickett K, French N, Marcovici G.
Source
Clinical Research and Development Network, Aurora, CO, USA.
Erratum in
J Altern Complement Med. 2006 Mar;12(2):199.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Androgenetic alopecia (AGA) is characterized by the structural miniaturization of androgen-sensitive hair follicles in susceptible individuals and is anatomically defined within a given pattern of the scalp. Biochemically, one contributing factor of this disorder is the conversion of testosterone (T) to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) via the enzyme 5-alpha reductase (5AR). This metabolism is also key to the onset and progression of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH). Furthermore, AGA has also been shown to be responsive to drugs and agents used to treat BPH. Of note, certain botanical compounds have previously demonstrated efficacy against BPH. Here, we report the first example of a placebo-controlled, double-blind study undertaken in order to examine the benefit of these botanical substances in the treatment of AGA.
OBJECTIVES:
The goal of this study was to test botanically derived 5AR inhibitors, specifically the liposterolic extract of Serenoa repens (LSESr) and beta-sitosterol, in the treatment of AGA. Subjects: Included in this study were males between the ages of 23 and 64 years of age, in good health, with mild to moderate AGA.
RESULTS:
The results of this pilot study showed a highly positive response to treatment. The blinded investigative staff assessment report showed that 60% of (6/10) study subjects dosed with the active study formulation were rated as improved at the final visit.
CONCLUSIONS:
This study establishes the effectiveness of naturally occurring 5AR inhibitors against AGA for the first time, and justifies the expansion to larger trials.

[StressedToTheBald]

I will soon include 'ganoderma lucidum' in my daily regimen as well.
Its actually one type of Japaneese mushrooms documented to work against DHT formation. I'll include a picture below. It is said that it blocks up to 50% of 5-alpha reductase, so it ain't perfect, but hopefuly with beta sitosterol and other stuff I use, I hope it might all add up and be somewhat of a natural replica of propecia.

[sausage]

I can't see those medications doing anything, if they were capable of bringing hair back or stopping loss surely everyone would know about them?

But you never know.

Worth a try I guess, if you are positive and whilst you can't afford a HT then go for it and good luck.

I remember when I first started losing hair I read a suggestion online which said try putting garden soil on your head while you sleep. I stupidly tried it, sticking it to my head with celetape. What an idiot I was.

[StressedToTheBald]

As far as I see it those meds(minox & propecia) work for some if used lifetime, don't work for others and plenty give up on them due to side effects. I acutally think they're well known among bald people seeking solution and as doctors and pharmaceutical companies offer nothing else but those 2 meds, they are the mainstream. Potential alternatives are actually the great unknown, there are fewer studies, way less funded, and doctors and corporations don't promote them as they have no interest to do so. Other stuff out there, researches, studies, they all seem to be 5-10 years away, and after 5-10 years, they'll probably say the same - they're 5-10 years away as the same was 5-10 years ago ! I said it before, and I'll say it again, today more than ever before in history - doctors and drugs manufacturers are here not for humanity or cure but to make huge profits. Profits before patients. Hair industry earns billions of dollars each year, yet still there is no real cure ! That is the bald truth and anyone claiming otherwise is selling a big lie.

I can't afford HT now, no. Nor I am willing to trade impotence for more hair. All I'm left with is shaving off my hair completely which I won't do - or go with the strongest natural 5-alpha reductase inhibitors for which positive studies have been made. Worst of it all, that for anything it takes months if not years to show visible improvements - even those showcasing success rate of minox and propecia - patients' photos show before and after 1 or 2+ years ! But what can I do, thanks for the kind wishes, You too, let me know how the HT went in Your case and what happens after with suggested meds.

Garden soil, thats a new one.. Well, as I said, 99% of 'advice & naturals' out there is complete nonsense. We just have to do our best to find the other 1%. I try to follow what studies say. There are small studies out there that do test natural inhibitors - fingers crossed there will come a day when something does work out for me without falling to temptation of minox and propecia.

[sausage]

You keep saying 'let me know how your transplant went' I haven't had a transplant, I haven't booked one, I have not even convinced myself yet that I should have one.

Its a tough one. One day I here good things about HT's and I am really interested and quite convinced to get one but as soon as I hear something negative I take another step backwards.

I am not sure where you are from? (sorry if you have already said) I am from England and as I have posted many times on these forums before, it is Wayne Rooney's transplant that made me interested in HT's, if your from America you probably won't know who he is.

He only had it done around the 1st June last year but it does look good although I do not know if I am being conned by a concealent. Part of me wants to wait and see how his hair holds out for another year.

I am 27 now, single and the next 5 years of my life are an important time for me to find a girl and settle down although with my lack of hair and confidence I will never be able to chat up a girl until I get my hair back.

I really want to be able to say screw it, just get out there and give it ago and find a girl, but I don't see myself crossing that line.

There is a girl I really like and if I had hair I am convinced I would be with her, I feel I need to get my hair back ideally sometime this year in order be able to ask her out. I have not seen her for 4 years and had a fairly decent head of hair when I last saw her so she may not even notice if I had anything done.

If I could click my fingers now and have a full head of hair, I would ask her out tomorrow no problem which could lead to bigger and better things, a house together eventually and a family. Thats how much I believe hair would change my life, instead I am single and a recluse and thats the way it is until I somehow just give in to my baldness and get on with things or I get a HT and my life would be how it should be........normal.

[StressedToTheBald]

Sorry, I thought it was a done decission.
For me its about the money. If I could afford it, I'd go with the best surgeon and would pick the best method, but thats just me, if You go for it has to be Your choice.

It all depends how bad Your baldness is and how You feel about it. I mean, if I had Norwood 1-2, I wouldn't be half as worried as with my stage 4-5 on Norwood scale. It simply looks terrible unless shaved off.

I'm way more Eastly bound. I know who Wayne is, his hair was very bad in front before the transplant - I think he had receding hairlines like I have now, not sure if he had bald spot on the crown too. Look, I think You're in the best place for transplant. If I could afford it, I'd do my transplant in England or even better - maybe in Ireland, those two place I tend to believe lead in Europe. But also, pay attention, if You choose to do it and where You do it, which doctor, clinic etc. I think Wayne's HT was like 30,000 british pounds ? Way, way out of my price range. Feels like sports car value for a set of hair, yet he could afford this price.

I know whats it like, bald hair takes away confidence and any folks saying otherwise or saying they'd be brave & confident even if they would go bald(those never do btw.) are full of crap. It matters when You look in the mirror and dislike what You see. And the balder one is, the worse the feeling. Although its not a disease, it feels like one, like lost youth or vitality, feels something ain't right.

It would be confidence boosting. I've heard a famous actor who did his transplant in Ireland btw. saying how much it meant to him, that he got new roles, movies and thats what its all about - selfconfidence.

Same goes for girls, sure one feels more confident without having to hide behind a hat or thinking - 'does she notice or what she thinks'. Most girls claim they don't care about our hair, yet I'm not sure if thats totally true. On the other side - You mentioned a future, family etc. and future also means challenges ahead - I hope the girl can appreciate beyond just hair, as there there should be more to human beeings than just full set of hair. My best wishes and best of luck.

[sausage]

Apparently England and Ireland are not renowned for HT surgery although there is one IAHRS approved surgeon here, people on this forum tend to tell me and everyone else to avoid England and Ireland. There are 2 IAHRS surgeons based in Belgium so I think thats probably the best place to go in Europe.

Anyway a bit more research to do and more decision making.

A head of hair would change my life, hopefully this year, fingers crossed.